Public Sector Strikes

[Woodsey]

Wow, just listening to the moaning twats on the radio about Clarkson. Seriously some some people need to shut the fuck up and get a life, I'm sick of all these PC wankers moaning about everything they don't like to hear!

[rex008]

I think Clarkson should sue that miserable Unison woman for comparing him to Gadaffi. That would be poetic justice .

[Bongo]

I think Clarkson should sue that miserable Unison woman for comparing him to Gadaffi. That would be poetic justice .

I think we should campaign to have her sacked for making ridiculous comparisons.

[Acidmouse]

Wow, just listening to the moaning twats on the radio about Clarkson. Seriously some some people need to shut the fuck up and get a life, I'm sick of all these PC wankers moaning about everything they don't like to hear!

I hate Clarkson, well above his station in many regards, but to moan at his comments is silly.

[redarmi]

Yeah just kind of makes me sick to hear that someone thinks that in return for creating 70 jobs I should be taxed even more than I am now.

I know this is going back in the thread a little bit but I don't think anyone really believes that you should pay more tax.  You are, in real terms, not rich but a small businessman that is trying to earn a living and part of that ambition includes you returning back to your community with things like job creation etc but most people are sick to death of hearing about things like Vodafone doing a deal with HMRC to reduce their tax bill from £8bn to £1.5bn or Goldman sachs being 'let off' £10m interest on an overdue tax bill.  I agree wholeheartedly that we need to look at our pension provisions and, probably, a whole load of other things that are going to hurt but we also wonder why we have to feel the pain whilst big firms and the ultra rich can get away with tax evasion and avoidance on a wholescale basis which could easily go a long way to paying off this national debt that everyone is talking about. 

[Jon MW]

... whilst big firms and the ultra rich can get away with tax evasion and avoidance on a wholescale basis which could easily go a long way to paying off this national debt that everyone is talking about. 

So how much money is lost through tax evasion by the ultra rich then?
And how big is the deficit that needs to be plugged?

[boldie]

... whilst big firms and the ultra rich can get away with tax evasion and avoidance on a wholescale basis which could easily go a long way to paying off this national debt that everyone is talking about. 

So how much money is lost through tax evasion by the ultra rich then?
And how big is the deficit that needs to be plugged?

Total tax evasion is approx £15bill a year (by comparison benefit fraud on which there is A LOT of focus is estimated at £1.1bill). IRS has done really welll in clawing quite a bit of that money back though. (Approx 7bill in 2007 according to one report)

 Also bear in mind that companies like Voda are officially not classed as tax evaders...They just settle whatever megabill they have for a fraction of the value so can be classed as Tax avoidance (which cost approx £70bill a year)

http://citywire.co.uk/money/tax-evasion-costs-treasury-15-times-more-than-benefit-fraud/a378274

http://www.newstatesman.com/blogs/the-staggers/2011/11/tax-avoidance-justice-network


Now can we STOP linking the pensions debate to this tax debate? Everyone payinga bit more tax does not make the current public pension system sustainable.

[Bongo]

Fair point otherwise MW but deficit != debt.

[redsimon]

... whilst big firms and the ultra rich can get away with tax evasion and avoidance on a wholescale basis which could easily go a long way to paying off this national debt that everyone is talking about. 

So how much money is lost through tax evasion by the ultra rich then?
And how big is the deficit that needs to be plugged?

According to most research £42 billion tax gap, this includes non collection, error by HMRC and avoidance/fraud.

According to PCS union £120 billion, so imagine figure is somewhere inbetween.

Obviously, not all this is "the rich" whatever that is defined at, avoiding tax.

[redarmi]

... whilst big firms and the ultra rich can get away with tax evasion and avoidance on a wholescale basis which could easily go a long way to paying off this national debt that everyone is talking about. 

So how much money is lost through tax evasion by the ultra rich then?
And how big is the deficit that needs to be plugged?

National debt at the moment stands at £966bn.  The fact that one company by paying their bill in full can reduce that by almost 1% is a staggering figure imo but not quite as staggering as the fact that they are allowed to just write it off.  It is estimated that the strike the other day cost the economy £500m so whilst the public sector strikes got front page coverage everywhere its real cost to the economy was actually about 6% of that one single deal that Vodafone did and yet that barely managed to get on the front page of the broadsheets.

[Jon MW]

Fair point otherwise MW but deficit != debt.

I know but "...easily go a long way to paying off this national debt..." is such a super ridiculous statement to make if you actually mean national debt that I assumed the deficit was what was meant.

I haven't seen the £42bn figure anywhere, only the £15bn that Boldie mentions - but either way I was just pointing out that the standard - stop the rich avoiding tax and all our problems will be solved argument just doesn't add up at all.

[boldie]

... whilst big firms and the ultra rich can get away with tax evasion and avoidance on a wholescale basis which could easily go a long way to paying off this national debt that everyone is talking about. 

So how much money is lost through tax evasion by the ultra rich then?
And how big is the deficit that needs to be plugged?

National debt at the moment stands at £966bn.  The fact that one company by paying their bill in full can reduce that by almost 1% is a staggering figure imo but not quite as staggering as the fact that they are allowed to just write it off.  It is estimated that the strike the other day cost the economy £500m so whilst the public sector strikes got front page coverage everywhere its real cost to the economy was actually about 6% of that one single deal that Vodafone did and yet that barely managed to get on the front page of the broadsheets.

Well, they didn't want to lose their advertising revenue did they? (Obv, not saying that that was behind the desicion not to hound Voda....well, it was for one paper ....alledgedly and only according to someone senior I know at Voda)

[Bongo]

How much of our national debt could the Guardian's tax dodging pay off? 

[boldie]

How much of our national debt could the Guardian's tax dodging pay off? 

They pay their tax....they just pay it in the Caymans...obv the Guardian is a Cayman newspaper and not a British one.

[redarmi]

I haven't seen the £42bn figure anywhere, only the £15bn that Boldie mentions - but either way I was just pointing out that the standard - stop the rich avoiding tax and all our problems will be solved argument just doesn't add up at all.

That wasn't really my point.  My point, albeit probably badly expresssed, was that every sector of society should be playing their part and I find it somewhat ironic that the Prime Minister will stand up in Parliament and condemn public sector workers for going on strike and costing the country £500m when a deal done with a single company on his watch cost 16 times as much.