The Best In The Business

[mulhuzz]

Dave knows there was MAing etc going on during SCOOP like he knows ther will be a a high tide today, it's inevitable even if he can't tell you what time it will happen.

[tikay]

Dave knows there was MAing etc going on during SCOOP like he knows ther will be a a high tide today, it's inevitable even if he can't tell you what time it will happen.

I'm not trying to be difficult here, but surely you mean "he strongly suspects"? That is very different to "knowing". (See difference between evidence & proof).

[mulhuzz]

Dave knows there was MAing etc going on during SCOOP like he knows ther will be a a high tide today, it's inevitable even if he can't tell you what time it will happen.

I'm not trying to be difficult here, but surely you mean "he strongly suspects"? That is very different to "knowing". (See difference between evidence & proof).

Do you strongly suspect that the sun will rise tomorrow, or do you know it will happen?

[dwayne110]

He knows it will likely rise tomorrow as he's seen the sun rise before, not suspected it has risen before...

[Doobs]

The first thing you've done wrong here is misunderstand "ghosting" as a term, ghosting is when one person has teamviewer up, or someone sat behind them telling them what to do at virtually every decision; open this, 3bet that, fold here, ICM says we can't open this and so on - you don't need to be sat next to someone to ghost them and I would imagine 95%+ of ghosting that has happened in the world has been done in proxy.

If pads is playing a PLO8 tourney, and happens to be sat next to someone who is a very good PLO8 tourney player and every so often turn to him and says "god Kevin (well call him Kevin lol) I gotta fold this right?" And Kevin has a quick look and says "that guy the preflop raiser yh? If so yh you gotta fold" and turns back to his own games then there is absolutely nothing in the world wrong with that.

The be "ghosting" someone you have to be watching the whole time, be aware of the build up in dynamics and the pattern of game flow, just occasionally taking an 11 second break from 14tabling to glance at someone's screen and offer some basic advice once every 2 hours isn't anything remotely close to ghosting.

I can promise you a HELL of a lot of legit ghosting and MAing went on over scoop.

As for all the rando Uk accounts in the scoop main, a lot of German/Scandinavia/Russian heros have accounts located in the UK, tax reasons and all that. Martin Jacobson for e.g.

Now that the dust has settled, & nothing to do with what was alleged about Patrick, can I ask you to explain that please, Dave? (or anyone else).

You've explained "ghosting", but what is "legit Multi-Accounting", please?

Perhaps I misread it, but nobody, or almost nobody, seemed to challenge that statement. What am I missing?

I do sometimes think my posts are invisible. Maybe thats the problem with being a nobody.
I challenged this earlier and would like it qualified

Your Post was not invisible to me, I saw it & noted it. Nobody else picked up on it though, & I was rather hoping they would, to save me having to ask!

Perhaps modern day poker ethics have moved on, & I've been naive, but the statement by Dave really shocked me, & more so that almost nobody challenged it.

Think my post was meant to cover both.  MAing and ghosting are pretty much the same thing anyway, which is getting somebody else to play a hand or hands for you.  Stars think you can have legit MAing.  Haven't got time for it, but think it is things like your internet breaks, and you ask your friend to play for 15 mins whilst driving around his house.  Stars produced a series of examples where they thought it was ok, and others when it wasn't. 

Strongly suspect asking your mate if all in is good here, or if calling a 3 bet with 2345 is good would both be wrong if done before you completed the hand. 

[SuuPRlim]

@Doobs / JuniorSenior / Tikay etc apologies for confusing post, I did mean, as I said in a post below that i meant "behavior that legitimately falls into the category of ghosting" as opposed to stuff which isn't actually ghosting (as people were confused)

Legit ghosting is a new one to me.  Whilst I accept people do speak about hands during play online that doesn't make it legit, or in anyway, right.  Wonder how long you'd last in a live tournament if you started asking your buddy how to play a hand whilst making a decision.

Lol doobs when I said legit ghosting I meant behaviour has occured that legitimately falls into the category of ghosting, not ghosting that I believe is legitimate and ethical.

I was pointing out the difference between asking your pal what hed do here when he hasnt been watching and turns his head and says "shove prolly" and actual ghosting - you have to be influencing the overall style and mannor of play to be ghosting not just pop up for 1 random hand and say "shove"

(perhaps you're not the only one who's posts are invisible!)

Apologies again for confusing phrasing.

The bolded part is the big part here, if you're sat next to someone who's good at PLO8 and occasionally ask them what to do, then not only is it un-policable, but it's also not classified as ghosting.
I'm not saying it's ethical, that I agree with it, or that Patrick did that, I'm just saying that by the letter of the law that IS NOT ghosting.

However I will say i don't believe ANYONE here has has played a high volume of internet poker has never asked someone for advice mid-hand. I just straight up won't believe them.

[SuuPRlim]

IMO It's reached a point with online poker if you play a high volume that spotting MA'ing/account sharing and preempting other forms of grimming has become part of the job and being bad at it is the same as having tilt problems or calling too many rivers etc its a flaw in your game that will cost you money.

The one good thing to say though is that most of equity stolen from these scummy things is stolen from the REGS, and not casual players, even though I am one of the worst affected by grimming in online poker, that point makes me happy because I'm experienced enough to know how to fight this stuff, whereas it'd be 30x more unfair recreational players with less time intensive time spent playing online poker were badly affected.

Not saying that MA'ing and ghosting etc isn't stealing equity from recreational/casual players ofc, because it is, but a fraction of that being stolen from pro's, but like I said professional gamblers should be able to deal with that (they SHOULDN'T HAVE TO, but they should have taught themselves too) as that is now (unfortunately) part of the job.

[Longy]

@Doobs / JuniorSenior / Tikay etc apologies for confusing post, I did mean, as I said in a post below that i meant "behavior that legitimately falls into the category of ghosting" as opposed to stuff which isn't actually ghosting (as people were confused)

Legit ghosting is a new one to me.  Whilst I accept people do speak about hands during play online that doesn't make it legit, or in anyway, right.  Wonder how long you'd last in a live tournament if you started asking your buddy how to play a hand whilst making a decision.

Lol doobs when I said legit ghosting I meant behaviour has occured that legitimately falls into the category of ghosting, not ghosting that I believe is legitimate and ethical.

I was pointing out the difference between asking your pal what hed do here when he hasnt been watching and turns his head and says "shove prolly" and actual ghosting - you have to be influencing the overall style and mannor of play to be ghosting not just pop up for 1 random hand and say "shove"

(perhaps you're not the only one who's posts are invisible!)

Apologies again for confusing phrasing.

The bolded part is the big part here, if you're sat next to someone who's good at PLO8 and occasionally ask them what to do, then not only is it un-policable, but it's also not classified as ghosting.
I'm not saying it's ethical, that I agree with it, or that Patrick did that, I'm just saying that by the letter of the law that IS NOT ghosting.

However I will say i don't believe ANYONE here has has played a high volume of internet poker has never asked someone for advice mid-hand. I just straight up won't believe them.

I can honestly sat I never have and would guess I have somewhere in the region of 10million hands played online lifetime. I pretty much have never grinded with other poker players in the room having said that and always play with phone on silent/ social media off.

[muckthenuts]

@Doobs / JuniorSenior / Tikay etc apologies for confusing post, I did mean, as I said in a post below that i meant "behavior that legitimately falls into the category of ghosting" as opposed to stuff which isn't actually ghosting (as people were confused)

Legit ghosting is a new one to me.  Whilst I accept people do speak about hands during play online that doesn't make it legit, or in anyway, right.  Wonder how long you'd last in a live tournament if you started asking your buddy how to play a hand whilst making a decision.

Lol doobs when I said legit ghosting I meant behaviour has occured that legitimately falls into the category of ghosting, not ghosting that I believe is legitimate and ethical.

I was pointing out the difference between asking your pal what hed do here when he hasnt been watching and turns his head and says "shove prolly" and actual ghosting - you have to be influencing the overall style and mannor of play to be ghosting not just pop up for 1 random hand and say "shove"

(perhaps you're not the only one who's posts are invisible!)

Apologies again for confusing phrasing.

The bolded part is the big part here, if you're sat next to someone who's good at PLO8 and occasionally ask them what to do, then not only is it un-policable, but it's also not classified as ghosting.
I'm not saying it's ethical, that I agree with it, or that Patrick did that, I'm just saying that by the letter of the law that IS NOT ghosting.

However I will say i don't believe ANYONE here has has played a high volume of internet poker has never asked someone for advice mid-hand. I just straight up won't believe them.

I can honestly sat I never have and would guess I have somewhere in the region of 10million hands played online lifetime. I pretty much have never grinded with other poker players in the room having said that and always play with phone on silent/ social media off.

yeah but you're longy fkn 11 who the hell are you gonna ask for advice

you genuinely were one of my grinding "idols" back in the days where 45man sngs used to run on ftp. miss them.

[SuuPRlim]

I can honestly sat I never have and would guess I have somewhere in the region of 10million hands played online lifetime. I pretty much have never grinded with other poker players in the room having said that and always play with phone on silent/ social media off.

so the reason you've never done it is because you think it's 100% un-ethical, or because you've never had anyone there to ask?

I'm not saying it's right btw, I'm just asking people to be realistic about this stuff.

[Longy]

I can honestly sat I never have and would guess I have somewhere in the region of 10million hands played online lifetime. I pretty much have never grinded with other poker players in the room having said that and always play with phone on silent/ social media off.

so the reason you've never done it is because you think it's 100% un-ethical, or because you've never had anyone there to ask?

I'm not saying it's right btw, I'm just asking people to be realistic about this stuff.

I mean I think it is pretty borderline but yeah if I lived with fellow poker players for any period of time it probably would have happened.

[Amatay]

Longy11 a grinding idol? Blonde cracks me up everyday <3

[Young_gun]

So in summary of last few pages lil dave chopped the plo8 then wp that man 

*Joke obv

[youthnkzR]

bigggggg grind! 1 tabled the 215 plo8 scoop and managed to come 2nd (dealt as 3rd stack 3 handed) for 22k. Very happy about the money dont get me wrong, but kinda sad not to get a scoop title that i feel like I deserve, but I guess I dont deserve it in Omaha so keeps me hungry for the weekend.

Goodnight all, thanks for the rail <3

I can't see how you can just chop scoop plo8 after rarely talking about playing mixed games or hilo then pull out a result like this. In my opinion if there is any scoop title you dont deserve it was definitely this one where its clear its your housemates speciality. I'll find it pretty LOL if no one else considered/believes you've been ghosted throughout that tournament. But nonetheless you guessed you didnt deserve it in plo8 anyway.

I'm definitely not a hater, butr i can't believe this has not been questioned.

you usually gave a little tourney report on finalling majors ect. but now you do that so often, i wonder how much of it is actually based on your own decisions entirely.


PLO8 and holdem are so far apart it just arouses suspicion.

Patrick Leonard
‎07‎:‎44 u think i should take it?

me
‎07‎:‎44 well look at it this way imo

Patrick Leonard
‎07‎:‎44 if i do end up running good i can win 2k more too

me
‎07‎:‎44 if u double u get like 25k chop
which is +4k on the deal
or if u lose and come 3rd u get -3k
i dno
im a punter by nature
‎07‎:‎45 its ur call
ive no idea about hi/lo
how deep / shallow is ur stack / how much play is there?
i would talk to / ring picken

Patrick Leonard
‎07‎:‎45 i got like 13 big
they both v good

me
‎07‎:‎45 ask picken imo

Patrick Leonard
‎07‎:‎45 sleepign

me
‎07‎:‎46 ring him?
 / monster_dong?

Patrick Leonard
‎07‎:‎46 they asleep
zzzz
its ok i take it i think

me
‎07‎:‎46 i wouldn't advise you not to take it
‎07‎:‎47 but i wouldn't say its 100% the right thing to do

---

Skype convo I had with him at the time he was dealing.

[Longy]

Longy11 a grinding idol? Blonde cracks me up everyday <3

Jealously will you got nowhere Simon, we are both has beens you a blogger and me a grinder!