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Author Topic: You are the Secretary of State for Education  (Read 11347 times)
GreekStein
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« Reply #30 on: May 21, 2015, 12:16:10 PM »

Stop fining parents for taking their kids on holiday or on a special day trip. They learn more than they would in school anyway, and surely the odd week off can't affect that education that much.

Absolutely this.



Few questions on this as I'm so out of touch I didn't even realise parents were being fined.

How much is the fine and how is it implemented? Don't most parents ring in and say 'Charlie is a little under the weather today so we're keeping him home' and then do the day trip they were planning on.

Personally my parents never let me have a day off school for a 'day trip'. I'm struggling to find a really good reason why one needs to take place on a school day.

I think under the right circumstances though, a family holiday or a day trip should be permissible without fining though I think when children get such long holidays it seems rather unnecessary in general.
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« Reply #31 on: May 21, 2015, 12:17:57 PM »

I would make children with extremely poor behaviour through their secondary schools do a year or two of military service.
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Graham C
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« Reply #32 on: May 21, 2015, 12:24:45 PM »

Stop fining parents for taking their kids on holiday or on a special day trip. They learn more than they would in school anyway, and surely the odd week off can't affect that education that much.

Absolutely this.



Few questions on this as I'm so out of touch I didn't even realise parents were being fined.

How much is the fine and how is it implemented?

Not only are they fined, but it's a fine per parent too, so one child, two different fines.  I'm not sure the logic in that.

"Instead of being prosecuted, you can be given a penalty notice. The penalty is £60, rising to £120 if paid after 21 days but within 28 days. If you don’t pay the fine you may be prosecuted."  - from the gov website.  Doesn't stack up with people that I know that have faced a fine.   

Regardless, £120 is worth it compared to what you pay to go on holiday in official holiday time.
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« Reply #33 on: May 21, 2015, 12:26:48 PM »

Abolish the proposed baseline assessments in Early Years. Testing children when they join Reception is ridiculous.

Tear up Ofsted and create a robust meaningful inspection framework.
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Jon MW
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« Reply #34 on: May 21, 2015, 01:20:29 PM »

I did a PGCE at Kings College, London around the turn of the millennium to train to be a teacher. My personal tutor there was on occasion an advisor to the government and through chats with her I found the main problem from their perspective was that (a) the government just ignored their advice and (b) when they didn't it was generally some idea of 'best practice' which the government would try and implement on a national basis without taking into account that different approaches might be better for different regions/schools/individuals. So my approach would definitely include listening to the experts and also having some element of flexibility.

Being top of the class at pedagogy (the theory) wasn't enough to stop me failing in classroom management (and you have to pass every element to pass); but I retried a few years later in Derbyshire - with the same results. Which increased my theoretical knowledge even further but without any useful outcome. It also means I've had experience of teaching in 4 very different schools: a private school (rich, less pupils, but also some very intelligent approaches to learning missing from the State sector); an inner city school (poor neighbourhood but rich school because of subsidies for poor neighbourhoods, very low standards from the intake area); a good state secondary school (poor catchment area but really good teachers and school set up) and a ghastly mediocre state school (poor catchment area but generally awful teaching staff and a system set up for babysitting rather than education).

My first thought would be that the fundamental aim of the education department was to improve education - any ideas about social engineering would be a 'bonus' if they could be implemented without damaging the core objective of learning.

For primary schools I'd make all the pupil assessment internal and teacher based. I'd have a review of best practice teaching methods and encourage schools to follow this, but allow the flexibility not to do so when teaching staff don't think it's best for their individual situations. I would add regular inspections to give some basis of comparison for parents in the neighbourhood to compare schools and also to check whether any deviation from the best practice methods weren't harming pupils chances. Low scores might result in an encouragement to change their ways, but failed inspections could result in Ofsted (or it's successor) imposing a change in their practices.

At the beginning of year 7 I'd have a standardised test for all secondary school entrants so the school can not only assess the correct sets for each subject that pupils need to go into - but also a baseline so that the GCSE results for that year will show the added value score each school has made from the intake's initial potential. I'd get rid of streaming if any school still does it, but introduce setting if they didn't have that.

I'd introduce touch typing courses (within PSHE/citizenship - possibly even English, maybe?), because it's just such a useful skill for almost everyone to have. I think I'd approach term time holidays as - pupils would be allowed up to 7 days off during term time at the Head Teachers discretion (not including unavoidable things like doctors appointments etc.). Most term time holidays aren't in the slightest bit educational and if it means families have to go to the UK coast for the holiday because they can't afford to fly abroad then it's not really that big a deal. But if a family did have something which was actually meaningfully useful then it could be allowed as long as they take into account the advice of when it would be least disruptive to their child's education.

I'd make education mandatory up to 18, but if pupils failed their GCSE maths I'd introduce a supplementary Numeracy certificate for them to take for 2 years which would concentrate purely on the most useful arithmetic that people need for everyday life. They could also do vocational courses/apprenticeships alongside this unless these course included the Numeracy certificate within their curriculum.

I'd definitely ask for a departmental reorganisation so that Universities came under the remit of the Education Department rather than Business (as it is now). And I'd abandon the idea that having everyone stay on to higher education is a fundamental aim. I'd want regular inspection of universities - particularly looking at quality of teaching and drop out rates. If a university failed in either of these they could be downgraded to a higher education college (if they were primarily academic in nature) or polytechnic (if they were primarily vocational or technical in nature) - funding would obviously be impacted by such a downgrade.

I'd also set up an enquiry to try and improve the teaching profession. The problem at the moment is that a lot of schools would be improved by just having more teachers, but if you pushed that through then quality would fall. One approach would be to shove more money into pay - but that wouldn't necessarily improve the prestige of teaching until it got vast swathes of highly qualified graduates to choose teaching rather than alternatives and might not be the best approach anyway. It's a difficult one to resolve - hence the enquiry. Smiley

Other ideas would probably come as a result of expert consultation - but that'd be a start Smiley
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« Reply #35 on: May 21, 2015, 01:20:47 PM »

I would make it so the next person in charge had nowhere near the power as I did.

No more Michael Goves.
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« Reply #36 on: May 21, 2015, 01:21:49 PM »

Stop fining parents for taking their kids on holiday or on a special day trip. They learn more than they would in school anyway, and surely the odd week off can't affect that education that much.

Absolutely this.



 Don't most parents ring in and say 'Charlie is a little under the weather today so we're keeping him home' and then do the day trip they were planning on.





Seems a shame that the kid will have to go to school the next day and lie about being ill instead of telling everyone about their day out.
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« Reply #37 on: May 21, 2015, 01:39:11 PM »

I would make education like medicine, where evidence is needed before changing something rather than, at the whim of an official.

I would aim for 35% of students get into Uni rather than 50%. It would make unemployment look bad for 18-21 year olds but some form of post school learning in practical subjects would be better for many young people rather than a degree.

I would make GCSE's A grades be only awarded to the top 10% of exam takers rather than everyone who spelt their name correctly as it is at the moment.

I would then give me counting classes as this clearly is more than one item.
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DaveShoelace
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« Reply #38 on: May 21, 2015, 01:45:32 PM »


I would make GCSE's A grades be only awarded to the top 10% of exam takers rather than everyone who spelt their name correctly as it is at the moment.


Do you mean by literally only whoever the top 10% is that year, or by making them harder so that typically only the top 10% get a good enough grade?

Seems unfair to make a 'Genuine A' student a B if the overall population did better one year.
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DungBeetle
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« Reply #39 on: May 21, 2015, 01:59:43 PM »


I would make GCSE's A grades be only awarded to the top 10% of exam takers rather than everyone who spelt their name correctly as it is at the moment.


Do you mean by literally only whoever the top 10% is that year, or by making them harder so that typically only the top 10% get a good enough grade?

Seems unfair to make a 'Genuine A' student a B if the overall population did better one year.

I agree.  I do like the idea of making the A harder to obtain, but if you mark it comparatively to the year group you don't allow useful comparison between different year groups when they are going for jobs?
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DungBeetle
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« Reply #40 on: May 21, 2015, 02:02:38 PM »

"I'd introduce touch typing courses (within PSHE/citizenship - possibly even English, maybe?), because it's just such a useful skill for almost everyone to have"

I can touch type faster than almost anyone I know and it's most useful in all the jobs I have had.  I don't understand why all computer game fanatics from the 80s/90s can't do it.  If you play enough games you just "know" where every key is on the keyboard.   Z = left, X = right, L=jump etc
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neeko
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« Reply #41 on: May 21, 2015, 02:19:22 PM »


I would make GCSE's A grades be only awarded to the top 10% of exam takers rather than everyone who spelt their name correctly as it is at the moment.


Do you mean by literally only whoever the top 10% is that year, or by making them harder so that typically only the top 10% get a good enough grade?

Seems unfair to make a 'Genuine A' student a B if the overall population did better one year.

I agree.  I do like the idea of making the A harder to obtain, but if you mark it comparatively to the year group you don't allow useful comparison between different year groups when they are going for jobs?

Yes, I would make it the top 10% that year.

I took my GCSE's 25 years ago (OMG) either my generation was really stupid or every grade we were awarded needs to be raised by one to make us comparable to this year.
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« Reply #42 on: May 21, 2015, 02:27:09 PM »


I would make GCSE's A grades be only awarded to the top 10% of exam takers rather than everyone who spelt their name correctly as it is at the moment.


Do you mean by literally only whoever the top 10% is that year, or by making them harder so that typically only the top 10% get a good enough grade?

Seems unfair to make a 'Genuine A' student a B if the overall population did better one year.

I agree.  I do like the idea of making the A harder to obtain, but if you mark it comparatively to the year group you don't allow useful comparison between different year groups when they are going for jobs?

You don't get that comparison anyway.  The proportion gettings a greade A now is entirely different, and I am not entirely convinced that the quality of scientists coming through now is any better than it was then.  I mentally adjust depending on the year of graduation.  By doing this I am not saying the kids of today are useless, or incapable, just that they are marked more generously.

I don't think there is going to be much difference between years if averaged over the whole country, so there is some merit in it.  But I don't think it can't really work, because there are differences in subjects.  I suspect the average person studying latin is going to be a bit brighter than the average person doing sociology or media studies.  Do we limit the A grades to 10% in both, and do we have set fail percentages too?  Having said that I did further maths and getting an A in that was notably more difficult than even maths and physics, so maybe some A grades will always be worth more than others.

I'd like to do something about the number of scientists coming through university.  You just have to make it more attractive.  Whether you tweak the funding or the fees, I am too far removed to give a view, but there must be something. 

Back when I went to University it was something like 10% of the over 18s went to University and the maths department at my University numbered hundreds of students, now near 50% go, and the maths department has been closed. 

From personal experience, I really couldn't fault my daughter's school much at all.  She seems to be thriving, and hasn't had a bad teached yet.  I was very sceptical about phonics, but am a complete convert; they seem to be able teach them all at different pace depending on ability; they seem to have quite a bit of freedom on what they choose for their homework, so they can all find something they want to do and can get enthusiastic about.  It all seems much better than the schooling I experienced at that age.
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« Reply #43 on: May 21, 2015, 02:43:16 PM »

Or we could move away from the old fashioned grading system entirely.

measuring intelligence by exam results is like measuring digestion by turd length Smiley
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« Reply #44 on: May 21, 2015, 02:49:23 PM »

Or we could move away from the old fashioned grading system entirely.

measuring intelligence by exam results is like measuring digestion by turd length Smiley

What do you propose as a replacement?

you are the Secretary of State for Education you can't just get rid of exam results without introducing something in their place.
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