blonde poker forum

I played the $250 Laddies Freeze today.

As usual, I was low-stacked throughout, lowest with 20 left, 15 left, 10 left, & 8 left, but patience paid off & the hands started to arrive, & I was soon in 2nd spot with 3 of us left.

The HUGE Chip Daddy - GeorgiaHouse (Newmarket) was playing his big stack beautifully, bullying big time. In fact, my major double through came off him, he had Raised as he did almost every hand, I went all-in with AK & he called in a flash with 7-2 & missed.

So, three handed, & think I have the measure of both the other players, both of whom are now risking all their stack most every hand with all-ins pre-flop - 30,000 chips into an unraised Pot pre-flop, to steal blinds of 900 total, that sort of thing.

Eventually, I find 9-9, blinds are 400-800 now, I make it 2,400 to go. Georgia House moves all-in, as he had done just about every time anyone Raised in front of him. He had shown lots of marginal stuff - A-T, A-6, K-J, even 7-2.

I decide this is right to call, & it turns out he has AQ, & rivers his Q, no complaints, though I did not put him on 2 overs for one moment.

So, the question is, how do you handle a guy who moves his stack in evey hand? Do I keep passing until I find my monster, setting him up along the way, or do we take our "iffy" call & hope for the best?

I recall some great advice At It Bradley gave me - if you think you have the measure of someone short-handed or heads-up, keep the pots small. But how often do you pass a decent hand in these circumstances, when the fact is, 9-9 would have been ahead 18 times out of 20 against this guy?

I ought to add that I was under NO pressure from the Blinds, they were 4000-800 & I had 15k or 20k.

i call all day there

turning it round, by being so aggressive he has SET YOU UP for a marginal call with 9-9 or a bad call with 9-9 if he has a proper hand because you think it will be ahead of his range (by ahead I mean well ahead not just 52-48% racing) 18 out of 20 times

I think the "he knows that I knows so lets double bluff him" approach has you setting him up from here on and PASSING

Pass to the re-raise a few times as the blinds are not an issue yet then wait for a real monster to do it..QQ/KK/AA/AK  and then be taking a 70-30 or 65-35 shot not a 50-50


In other words by passing 9-9 here you are setting him up for him to try it when you have the real monster.


Clearly though hindsight is easy, in your position I would have had his range of hands far broader than AQish..but I know with 9-9 I'm likely to be racing...with a monster I shouldn't be.

But by the same token if you sit around waiting for a monster 3 handed then by the time you've picked it up and gone all in he's taken that much off you in blinds and antes a double up only gets you back to where you started anyway.

I'd take my chances with calling in this situation if i know he's just as likely to have a rag ace or even a lower pair than he is two overs - if i lose then c'est la vie 3rd isnt too bad........

fold

but I would not have raised the 99.
If you were gonna play it he may not move all in if you limp, he may only raise, giving you a chance (if you so choose)  to be the one moving all in first if he gives himself enough room to fold.

But against the kind of hands he was playing, AK is much less vulnerable than 99.

3 handed and you wouldnt raise with 9's?

let him make your action, limp and then decide whether to flat call his raise behind, reraise all in or fold to his raise

If you call behind you are out of position but you can negate this by pushing if its raggy.


Just against this type of opponet mind...give him the old rope a dope

Much of this I like Tighty, but truth is, his range of hands was likely to include almost anything. I reckon one over was higly probable, but even so, the point is, do I want to risk my entire comp on a single hand, when I'm under no blind pressure, & I think I can outplay him. (And also, by waiting for the third player to bust, I ladder $600). Then again, before Kev gets in, I've yet to meet the player I can really outplay Heads-Up, so maybe taking my "shot" was a good thing - it equalises my inferior play.

How can you outplay someone who has only one move - all in preflop?

Like i said earlier you can wait forever and eventually find a monster - but if he is making moves with hands like 7-2 then 99 is a monster. By the time you pick up AA or KK you may be down to the felt and not have enough chips to cripple him anyway

Isn't it a better situation if he limps rather than raises?

He might be able to RR and take the pot down uncontested.

He can pass if both oppos end up all in.

Would the big stacks range be wider against a limp than against a raise, or unchanged?

Noted. OK, what do you think of HIS play, all-in almost every hand? When he started this lark, he had maybe 50k, & me & Matey Boy both had, I dunno, let say 15k?

I gotta say it's hard to combat - any time I take him on, it's gonna be my entire comp on the line. Which, I guess, sort of answers my original question.

By the way, I am not being critical of him - I told him in the chatbox, "you are playing that stack beautfiully".

If he's calling all in bets with 7-2 then there is no way on this earth he is laying down AQ so by limping then reraising all in the chips all still end up in the middle preflop anyway. Yes you are putting the added pressure on your opponent to lay his hand down but if it is apparent that their computer does not have a fold button preflop then you have to draw a line in the sand and say "right, the hand range i will put all my chips in is XYZ - i get one of these hands and in it all goes."

Once you've beaten him and taken a decent amount of chips from him it sends him the message that you cannot be bullied and if you fight back a bit more he may just try to target the third player which means you can sit back and wait for heads up.

The limp assumes he is going to raise.

Is this the case pretty much every hand?

I agree with Matt that the "outplay them, keep the pots small" doesn't really apply when your opponent is moving in pre-flop all the time. There's no way to keep those pots small.

It's more applicable against the unimaginative player who is going to pass on pretty much all the flops they miss, and never bluff raise.

The limp may have been a marignally better play, but all the chips were going in whatever I think here.

If you pass 9's three handed, you may blind half your stack waiting for something better, and end up trapping them just to stay in the same place.
 

Sometimes even though its not my usual style of play you just have to fight fire with fire, he knows its your tournament life on the line not his - you just got to find a hand, grit your teeth and do what many countless others did in acts of war, gung ho - over the top and all that.

If you come through it unscathed then you have 30k and he has 35k - then he has to think twice about going all in against you again.....

He never limped - it was all-in just about every hand.

The play that has not be considered is to move all-in first.

It's a huge overbet, but he knows there's no way to bully that particular raise.

If you're not keen to race, and your hand is too good to pass to a re-raise, the 19xBB all-in is not the daftest move in the world against the bully.

What's wrong with just picking up an ace and limp-calling his all in instead. There's only a 6% chance that more than one ace is out when you are three handed.

Coz 99 is better.

If you limp (or raise for that matter) and he goes all-in with anything, (which we're assuming in this model)

If you call, against the random hand...

A2o   55%
A3o   56%
A4o   57%
A6o   58%
A5o   58%
A7o   59% 
A8o   60%
A9o   61%
A10o  63%    
AJo   64%
AQo   64%    
AKo   65%    

Suited Ax, add 2/3%

99    72% 

Effectively, that happened once. He Raised, rarely for him, just 3 BB's, to about 1,800, & me, with 9k, shoved all-in with AK. He insta-called with his 7-2, so I think the subtle option does not work with these guys.

Maybe, but "limp-calling" every street offends my every poker instinct - though that's not to say you are wrong.

There's only one street to play though.

You've got to play to his pre-flop poker, he's not letting you do anything else.

I may be wrong to assume that the time he played 72 he already had put chips in the pot and felt like he had to 'protect' them.

This is why the limp is better in this situation (not usually no matt)

You raised your 99 and I assume he will fold hands like 72.... whereas first in he may play anything and even more so if you limp cause he wants to bully.......so.............. limping with 99 increases your chance of being in against a worse hand..........and it also gives you some (although not a lot by the sound of it) folding equity.

With the aK v 7-2 he small Raised, I big Re-Raised all-in (overbet), he called.

With the 9-9, I Pot Raised, he moved in for a mountain, I had to make the decision.

I think you have to take this hand all the way tikay, so many times he his going to turn over Ax with (x = 9 or under) or a pair lower than yours and you have him crushed.

From what you say he was playing very good big stack poker, not a fan of the play with 72 but the theory is correct. If you double up in this spot though it is like cutting samsons hair, he loses his power. He no longer has the ability to end your comp.

All in preflop is not how you would like to play poker im sure but you have to adapt to the situation. If you wait for a hand you would be happy to go with preflop, AK, AA, KK QQ etc.. your stack may now be insignificant and a double would bring you back to the same spot as when you passed 99. I would have done the same as you, taken 99 to the wire, swear a bit when the river card hits and move on

Thanks Pab.

I really do think he played his deep-stack beautifully.

I am not a fan of un-imaginitive all-ins, but 3 handed, with triple the stack of me & my short-stacked opponent, it was well-nigh impossible to play him. Lovely stuff.

And as you say, if I win that hand, everything changes.

How I'd go about playing someone who's all-in every hand.

The hands you're looking for....

AA
KK
QQ
JJ
TT
99
88
AKs
77
AQs
AJs
AK
ATs
AQ
AJ
KQs
66
A9s
AT
KJs
A8s

..in that order

You might only play with the top lot at first (big pairs) as the blinds get higher, you may need to start gradually including the ones below in your limp(or raise) then all-in call list.


Hypothetically, with huuuuuuuuuge stacks and opposition playing like this, you may start off just playing AA. As the blinds increase and your stack decreases, adding KK, then so on and so forth.

The list goes on...

A8s
KTs
KQ
A7s
A9
KJ
55
QJs
K9s
A5s
A6s
A8
KT
QTs
A4s
A7
K8s
A3s
QJ
K9
A5
A6
Q9s
K7s
JTs
A2s
QT
44

Note the relatively low position of 44, and look at all the hands above it.

Often in these situations, players are keen to trap with small pairs where they might not not dream of doing so with hands much further up the list.

The list is how a hand will fair against a random one all-in pre-flop. As such it has little value unless you're playing an opponent who is moving in every hand.

The judgement and "poker" come in when deciding at what point down the list you need to draw the line, and when to widen your hand range.

In your situation, the third players willingness to gamble and the payout structure would have a huge bearing on this.

Thanks Tank.

Other small-stack was getting more involved, so it was an iffy situation - I think 3rd was $1,200, 2nd $1,800 & the winner $3,000. (Only 3 places paid).

With $1,200 "locked up", & only $1,800 for 2nd, I thought it was worth the call eventually - 2nd & 3rd, were, in effect, much of a muchness, & once I had the $1,200 in the bank, I was keen on giving myself a shot at the $3k.

With that payout structure, and 20BBs the instinct tells me to go on the top 12 hands. So that's everthing down to AKo (Based on no math whatsoever this, just an "educated" guess)

As the SB wants to get involved too, I'm tempted to cut back to the top 9 to begin with.

As 99 is number six on my list, I'll take him on all day long with it.

 

IMO you made the right call here Tikay.  The guy is doing this every hand so he's not allowing anyone to take control of the action therefore you must draw a line in the sand and take him on knowing that more times than not you will have the best of it preflop thus leaving it up to the board and the poker gods. - If you double up then you can control the action and you become favourite to win the comp - if you lose then at least you gave yourself chance to get into a dominating position and win. - if you keep folding then you go out like a girlie and get blinded down to an unplayabe stack and whimper to the rail.

hi tkay

         against aggressive peole like that if i wer 1st to act i wud ov limped if he had ov raised then wud ov stuck it in,if he is playing rubbish hands its gonna make him think u hav a monster,if you do get to see a flop cheap thats fine then you can raise or fold after flop if u think ur still ahead then bet at him,let him make ur bets for you,think u just bit unlucky he on this time did have a hand proberbly 8 ot of 10 he was playing rubbish,

Thanks Baldy.

Truth is, I needed to get lucky to beat him. He had a mountain of chips, & was happy to put them in every hand, time after time, & I just don't have the skillset to deal with that situation. The fact is, I needed a bigger stack - then he would not have played the way he did. And it's getting the bigger stack that is my problem - I am almost always the low stack at the sharp end of tourneys, as my middle-to end game is weak. But my overall game is sufficiently adequate such that I can dodge the bullets & go deep in more tourneys than not.

Yesterday was typical. In the $250 Freeze I exited 7th of 35, in the $100 High Stack I ended up 6th or 7th of 100+, & in the big $100 rebuy, 18th I think from 200+ for $344. My Live Record is the same, as you will see if you check out my Results on a Poker Database. (Tony Kendall). Loads & loads of Festival Finals, 30 odd in the last 2 or 3 years, but very few wins.

I just seem to "freeze" at the two thirds distance.

as long as your making money thats the main,i suffer same trouble but in not as high stakes as you play,cos in middle to late stages im not prepeared to play rubbish like some ov them do,or my worst senarior is i make a bluff wiv rubbish and get re raised by sum wiv the nuts lol,i had it other day and the lad to my right was well chipped and everytime it was my bb he was raiseing i no he carnt hav a hand everytime but its getting enough in yours to warrent a call or re raise,

some very interesting points. how about this to ponder on. How do you play against a guy that moves all in post flop when he hasnt actually looked at his cards!!! his pre-flop play is to flat call the bet or any raise and then move all-in post flop regardless of the board.

this happened to me last night in a live game. held A-10 and limped with 4 players left. hit 2 pair on the flop to face an all-in move. you'd think call every time here but the 2 cards he had hit the straight and that was goodnight from me.

I find a different casino/card room where the players take the game seriously and play there instead.......

I stay and make a killing!