Coping with the Big Stck Bully

[tikay]

I played the $250 Laddies Freeze today.

As usual, I was low-stacked throughout, lowest with 20 left, 15 left, 10 left, & 8 left, but patience paid off & the hands started to arrive, & I was soon in 2nd spot with 3 of us left.

The HUGE Chip Daddy - GeorgiaHouse (Newmarket) was playing his big stack beautifully, bullying big time. In fact, my major double through came off him, he had Raised as he did almost every hand, I went all-in with AK & he called in a flash with 7-2 & missed.

So, three handed, & think I have the measure of both the other players, both of whom are now risking all their stack most every hand with all-ins pre-flop - 30,000 chips into an unraised Pot pre-flop, to steal blinds of 900 total, that sort of thing.

Eventually, I find 9-9, blinds are 400-800 now, I make it 2,400 to go. Georgia House moves all-in, as he had done just about every time anyone Raised in front of him. He had shown lots of marginal stuff - A-T, A-6, K-J, even 7-2.

I decide this is right to call, & it turns out he has AQ, & rivers his Q, no complaints, though I did not put him on 2 overs for one moment.

So, the question is, how do you handle a guy who moves his stack in evey hand? Do I keep passing until I find my monster, setting him up along the way, or do we take our "iffy" call & hope for the best?

I recall some great advice At It Bradley gave me - if you think you have the measure of someone short-handed or heads-up, keep the pots small. But how often do you pass a decent hand in these circumstances, when the fact is, 9-9 would have been ahead 18 times out of 20 against this guy?

[tikay]

I ought to add that I was under NO pressure from the Blinds, they were 4000-800 & I had 15k or 20k.

[ACE2M]

i call all day there

[TightEnd]

turning it round, by being so aggressive he has SET YOU UP for a marginal call with 9-9 or a bad call with 9-9 if he has a proper hand because you think it will be ahead of his range (by ahead I mean well ahead not just 52-48% racing) 18 out of 20 times

I think the "he knows that I knows so lets double bluff him" approach has you setting him up from here on and PASSING

Pass to the re-raise a few times as the blinds are not an issue yet then wait for a real monster to do it..QQ/KK/AA/AK  and then be taking a 70-30 or 65-35 shot not a 50-50


In other words by passing 9-9 here you are setting him up for him to try it when you have the real monster.


Clearly though hindsight is easy, in your position I would have had his range of hands far broader than AQish..but I know with 9-9 I'm likely to be racing...with a monster I shouldn't be.

[matt674]

But by the same token if you sit around waiting for a monster 3 handed then by the time you've picked it up and gone all in he's taken that much off you in blinds and antes a double up only gets you back to where you started anyway.

I'd take my chances with calling in this situation if i know he's just as likely to have a rag ace or even a lower pair than he is two overs - if i lose then c'est la vie 3rd isnt too bad........

[clayftknight]

fold

but I would not have raised the 99.
If you were gonna play it he may not move all in if you limp, he may only raise, giving you a chance (if you so choose)  to be the one moving all in first if he gives himself enough room to fold.

But against the kind of hands he was playing, AK is much less vulnerable than 99.

[matt674]

but I would not have raised the 99.

3 handed and you wouldnt raise with 9's?

[TightEnd]

let him make your action, limp and then decide whether to flat call his raise behind, reraise all in or fold to his raise

If you call behind you are out of position but you can negate this by pushing if its raggy.


Just against this type of opponet mind...give him the old rope a dope

[tikay]

turning it round, by being so aggressive he has SET YOU UP for a marginal call with 9-9 or a bad call with 9-9 if he has a proper hand because you think it will be ahead of his range (by ahead I mean well ahead not just 52-48% racing) 18 out of 20 times

I think the "he knows that I knows so lets double bluff him" approach has you setting him up from here on and PASSING

Pass to the re-raise a few times as the blinds are not an issue yet then wait for a real monster to do it..QQ/KK/AA/AK  and then be taking a 70-30 or 65-35 shot not a 50-50


In other words by passing 9-9 here you are setting him up for him to try it when you have the real monster.


Clearly though hindsight is easy, in your position I would have had his range of hands far broader than AQish..but I know with 9-9 I'm likely to be racing...with a monster I shouldn't be.

Much of this I like Tighty, but truth is, his range of hands was likely to include almost anything. I reckon one over was higly probable, but even so, the point is, do I want to risk my entire comp on a single hand, when I'm under no blind pressure, & I think I can outplay him. (And also, by waiting for the third player to bust, I ladder $600). Then again, before Kev gets in, I've yet to meet the player I can really outplay Heads-Up, so maybe taking my "shot" was a good thing - it equalises my inferior play.

[matt674]

but even so, the point is, do I want to risk my entire comp on a single hand, when I'm under no blind pressure, & I think I can outplay him.

How can you outplay someone who has only one move - all in preflop?

Like i said earlier you can wait forever and eventually find a monster - but if he is making moves with hands like 7-2 then 99 is a monster. By the time you pick up AA or KK you may be down to the felt and not have enough chips to cripple him anyway

[Bongo]

Isn't it a better situation if he limps rather than raises?

He might be able to RR and take the pot down uncontested.

He can pass if both oppos end up all in.

Would the big stacks range be wider against a limp than against a raise, or unchanged?

[tikay]

but even so, the point is, do I want to risk my entire comp on a single hand, when I'm under no blind pressure, & I think I can outplay him.

How can you outplay someone who has only one move - all in preflop?

Like i said earlier you can wait forever and eventually find a monster - but if he is making moves with hands like 7-2 then 99 is a monster. By the time you pick up AA or KK you may be down to the felt and not have enough chips to cripple him anyway

Noted. OK, what do you think of HIS play, all-in almost every hand? When he started this lark, he had maybe 50k, & me & Matey Boy both had, I dunno, let say 15k?

I gotta say it's hard to combat - any time I take him on, it's gonna be my entire comp on the line. Which, I guess, sort of answers my original question.

By the way, I am not being critical of him - I told him in the chatbox, "you are playing that stack beautfiully".

[matt674]

Isn't it a better situation if he limps rather than raises?

He might be able to RR and take the pot down uncontested.

He can pass if both oppos end up all in.

Would the big stacks range be wider against a limp than against a raise, or unchanged?

If he's calling all in bets with 7-2 then there is no way on this earth he is laying down AQ so by limping then reraising all in the chips all still end up in the middle preflop anyway. Yes you are putting the added pressure on your opponent to lay his hand down but if it is apparent that their computer does not have a fold button preflop then you have to draw a line in the sand and say "right, the hand range i will put all my chips in is XYZ - i get one of these hands and in it all goes."

Once you've beaten him and taken a decent amount of chips from him it sends him the message that you cannot be bullied and if you fight back a bit more he may just try to target the third player which means you can sit back and wait for heads up.

[thetank]

The limp assumes he is going to raise.

Is this the case pretty much every hand?

I agree with Matt that the "outplay them, keep the pots small" doesn't really apply when your opponent is moving in pre-flop all the time. There's no way to keep those pots small.

It's more applicable against the unimaginative player who is going to pass on pretty much all the flops they miss, and never bluff raise.

The limp may have been a marignally better play, but all the chips were going in whatever I think here.

If you pass 9's three handed, you may blind half your stack waiting for something better, and end up trapping them just to stay in the same place.
 

[matt674]

Noted. OK, what do you think of HIS play, all-in almost every hand? When he started this lark, he had maybe 50k, & me & Matey Boy both had, I dunno, let say 15k?

I gotta say it's hard to combat - any time I take him on, it's gonna be my entire comp on the line. Which, I guess, sort of answers my original question.

By the way, I am not being critical of him - I told him in the chatbox, "you are playing that stack beautfiully".

Sometimes even though its not my usual style of play you just have to fight fire with fire, he knows its your tournament life on the line not his - you just got to find a hand, grit your teeth and do what many countless others did in acts of war, gung ho - over the top and all that.

If you come through it unscathed then you have 30k and he has 35k - then he has to think twice about going all in against you again.....