Coping with the Big Stck Bully

[tikay]

The limp assumes he is going to raise.

Is this the case pretty much every hand?

I agree with Matt that the "outplay them, keep the pots small" doesn't really apply when your opponent is moving in pre-flop all the time. There's no way to keep those pots small.

It's more applicable against the unimaginative player who is going to pass on pretty much all the flops they miss, and never bluff raise.

The limp may have been a marignally better play, but all the chips were going on whatever I think here.

If you pass 9's three handed, you may blind half your stack waiting for something better, and end up trapping them just to stay in the same place.
 

He never limped - it was all-in just about every hand.

[thetank]

The play that has not be considered is to move all-in first.

It's a huge overbet, but he knows there's no way to bully that particular raise.

If you're not keen to race, and your hand is too good to pass to a re-raise, the 19xBB all-in is not the daftest move in the world against the bully.

[SupaMonkey]

What's wrong with just picking up an ace and limp-calling his all in instead. There's only a 6% chance that more than one ace is out when you are three handed.

[thetank]

What's wrong with just picking up an ace and limp-calling his all in instead.

Coz 99 is better.

If you limp (or raise for that matter) and he goes all-in with anything, (which we're assuming in this model)

If you call, against the random hand...

A2o   55%
A3o   56%
A4o   57%
A6o   58%
A5o   58%
A7o   59% 
A8o   60%
A9o   61%
A10o  63%    
AJo   64%
AQo   64%    
AKo   65%    

Suited Ax, add 2/3%

99    72% 

[tikay]

The play that has not be considered is to move all-in first.

It's a huge overbet, but he knows there's no way to bully that particular raise.

If you're not keen to race, and your hand is too good to pass to a re-raise, the 19xBB all-in is not the daftest move in the world against the bully.

Effectively, that happened once. He Raised, rarely for him, just 3 BB's, to about 1,800, & me, with 9k, shoved all-in with AK. He insta-called with his 7-2, so I think the subtle option does not work with these guys.

[tikay]

What's wrong with just picking up an ace and limp-calling his all in instead. There's only a 6% chance that more than one ace is out when you are three handed.

Maybe, but "limp-calling" every street offends my every poker instinct - though that's not to say you are wrong.

[thetank]

There's only one street to play though.

You've got to play to his pre-flop poker, he's not letting you do anything else.

[clayftknight]

I may be wrong to assume that the time he played 72 he already had put chips in the pot and felt like he had to 'protect' them.

This is why the limp is better in this situation (not usually no matt)

You raised your 99 and I assume he will fold hands like 72.... whereas first in he may play anything and even more so if you limp cause he wants to bully.......so.............. limping with 99 increases your chance of being in against a worse hand..........and it also gives you some (although not a lot by the sound of it) folding equity.

[tikay]

I may be wrong to assume that the time he played 72 he already had put chips in the pot and felt like he had to 'protect' them.

This is why the limp is better in this situation (not usually no matt)

You raised your 99 and I assume he will fold hands like 72.... whereas first in he may play anything and even more so if you limp cause he wants to bully.......so.............. limping with 99 increases your chance of being in against a worse hand..........and it also gives you some (although not a lot by the sound of it) folding equity.

With the aK v 7-2 he small Raised, I big Re-Raised all-in (overbet), he called.

With the 9-9, I Pot Raised, he moved in for a mountain, I had to make the decision.

[Pab]

I think you have to take this hand all the way tikay, so many times he his going to turn over Ax with (x = 9 or under) or a pair lower than yours and you have him crushed.

From what you say he was playing very good big stack poker, not a fan of the play with 72 but the theory is correct. If you double up in this spot though it is like cutting samsons hair, he loses his power. He no longer has the ability to end your comp.

All in preflop is not how you would like to play poker im sure but you have to adapt to the situation. If you wait for a hand you would be happy to go with preflop, AK, AA, KK QQ etc.. your stack may now be insignificant and a double would bring you back to the same spot as when you passed 99. I would have done the same as you, taken 99 to the wire, swear a bit when the river card hits and move on

[tikay]

I think you have to take this hand all the way tikay, so many times he his going to turn over Ax with (x = 9 or under) or a pair lower than yours and you have him crushed.

From what you say he was playing very good big stack poker, not a fan of the play with 72 but the theory is correct. If you double up in this spot though it is like cutting samsons hair, he loses his power. He no longer has the ability to end your comp.

All in preflop is not how you would like to play poker im sure but you have to adapt to the situation. If you wait for a hand you would be happy to go with preflop, AK, AA, KK QQ etc.. your stack may now be insignificant and a double would bring you back to the same spot as when you passed 99. I would have done the same as you, taken 99 to the wire, swear a bit when the river card hits and move on

Thanks Pab.

I really do think he played his deep-stack beautifully.

I am not a fan of un-imaginitive all-ins, but 3 handed, with triple the stack of me & my short-stacked opponent, it was well-nigh impossible to play him. Lovely stuff.

And as you say, if I win that hand, everything changes.

[thetank]

How I'd go about playing someone who's all-in every hand.

The hands you're looking for....

AA
KK
QQ
JJ
TT
99
88
AKs
77
AQs
AJs
AK
ATs
AQ
AJ
KQs
66
A9s
AT
KJs
A8s

..in that order

You might only play with the top lot at first (big pairs) as the blinds get higher, you may need to start gradually including the ones below in your limp(or raise) then all-in call list.


Hypothetically, with huuuuuuuuuge stacks and opposition playing like this, you may start off just playing AA. As the blinds increase and your stack decreases, adding KK, then so on and so forth.

The list goes on...

A8s
KTs
KQ
A7s
A9
KJ
55
QJs
K9s
A5s
A6s
A8
KT
QTs
A4s
A7
K8s
A3s
QJ
K9
A5
A6
Q9s
K7s
JTs
A2s
QT
44

Note the relatively low position of 44, and look at all the hands above it.

Often in these situations, players are keen to trap with small pairs where they might not not dream of doing so with hands much further up the list.

The list is how a hand will fair against a random one all-in pre-flop. As such it has little value unless you're playing an opponent who is moving in every hand.

The judgement and "poker" come in when deciding at what point down the list you need to draw the line, and when to widen your hand range.

In your situation, the third players willingness to gamble and the payout structure would have a huge bearing on this.

[tikay]

Thanks Tank.

Other small-stack was getting more involved, so it was an iffy situation - I think 3rd was $1,200, 2nd $1,800 & the winner $3,000. (Only 3 places paid).

With $1,200 "locked up", & only $1,800 for 2nd, I thought it was worth the call eventually - 2nd & 3rd, were, in effect, much of a muchness, & once I had the $1,200 in the bank, I was keen on giving myself a shot at the $3k.

[thetank]

With that payout structure, and 20BBs the instinct tells me to go on the top 12 hands. So that's everthing down to AKo (Based on no math whatsoever this, just an "educated" guess)

As the SB wants to get involved too, I'm tempted to cut back to the top 9 to begin with.

As 99 is number six on my list, I'll take him on all day long with it.

 

[Junior Senior]

IMO you made the right call here Tikay.  The guy is doing this every hand so he's not allowing anyone to take control of the action therefore you must draw a line in the sand and take him on knowing that more times than not you will have the best of it preflop thus leaving it up to the board and the poker gods. - If you double up then you can control the action and you become favourite to win the comp - if you lose then at least you gave yourself chance to get into a dominating position and win. - if you keep folding then you go out like a girlie and get blinded down to an unplayabe stack and whimper to the rail.