blonde poker forum

I thought some of you would be interested in this:

http://www.blondepoker.com/index.php?q=node/4604 (http://www.blondepoker.com/index.php?q=node/4604)

If anyone shares any of my concerns or is in a similar position, then please post on here.

And as always, if anyone else wishes to voice their opinions on the new legislation and what it means to the future of online poker, then please feel free to post on this thread.

Why do you think that snnops?

Personally as someone who is a marginal winner but plays a lot so gets nuff RB and bonuses I'm in a bit of a dodgy position unless I get my finger out and start to get good at NL holdem. Time to start hitting the strategy forums again. I'm also thinking of getting a coach. The game is definitely going to be around for a few years so there is still money to be made for good players. Instead of 8 tabling 1/2 while reading blonde and watching a film it will maybe need to be 2 tabling 5/10 while concentrating like mad. Egh sounds like hard work, where's that McDonalds application form? :D

pick me up an application form as well.....


Cant beleive how the bill was passed as well in such a underhand way. Attahced to a port security bill, which according to a few ive spoken too was improtant and never going to get rejected. The case was never reviewed in its own right, and since i make most of my money from online poker, i found this very fustrating. Weather i can still sustain a living from poker remains to be seen and its all case of wait and see at the moment!


P.S,  well written article snoops

Nice article Snoops, got to disagree with most of you here. I have been playing party for the last few days and although the guarantees are shot to sh*t there’s still decent traffic. Also I have noticed a big upswing in players from central Europe (lots of Germans) and there play is diabolical. Won’t be long before Asia starts kicking fish in to the pool as well, I don't think you chaps have much to worry.

Would love to know how all these zillions of people in Asia are suddenly gonna start playing poker. Isn't it illegal to gamble in a lot of Asian countries? Can you access gambling sites in China? You can't in India or Dubai, you're not meant to in Thailand. Are there any foreign language poker sites? What are the poker sites doing to market themselves in Asia? I spoke to a huge Party affiliate a few years ago who said he had sites up in Chinese but to get players he needed sub-affiliates to take cash and then transfer the money onto the site for them. I presume they also have to be told how to use some sort of proxy server or something??? When he tried to get east europeans playing he found that a lot of people decided to deposit using a stolen credit card. I'm no expert on this by any means but I really hope some sites stay open to america.

Anyway the games at Full Tilt last night were rocking :D

I'm not 100% sure, but I think it's perfectly legal to play poker online in Japan and Korea, both large countries with large broadband penetration and a wealthy market.

These are certainly two markets that are under-developed. 

What is the legal status of online gambling in India, that's probably the market the poker sites want to crack?

Basically what he said, plus the betfair asian tour should start opening a few online doors. I think we quickly assume that the American market is the be all and end all. Its a very, very important marketplace and it can only be a matter of time before they come back, after all the move always seemed more about protectionism and exclusionism than actual moral reasons stated (frisk funded by Harrahs). In the mean time other markets will open up, they always do.

Well for me at least so far it has actually been profitable, the PLO games on Stars have taken off since Party closed it's doors to the yanks. As someone who ignored the supposed fishtank that was Party it hasn't had a detrimental effect on me yet, other than not being able to deposit to a couple of sites because i'm actually in America. The views over here are fairly split many doom and gloom merchants and a few of the internet superstars looking at moving to Vegas to try and recreate their online profits in the live game. The rest are looking at ways to get round it and putting together some kind of movement to get the bill changed if it indeed even covers online poker which is a point nobody has clearly been able to prove on either side of the coin.

Whilst I am still on a relatively low rung of the poker ladder, I, too, am disappointed in the recently passed Bill.
It seems strange that the country which stands for freedom and democracy should adopt such a tyrannical stance.
Even stranger that the average American can peruse at will perversion and degredation, in the form of pornography, from the comfort of their own living room, yet they can't play a game of cards.

Apparently, technology exists to block computer addresses and 12 million Americans will be adversely affected.
Whenever a new car immobiliser comes onto the market, there is already somebody, somewhere, who knows how to bypass it and steal the car.....
..... I hope he's an American.

As an online pro myself these days, i have followed the ongoings of the last few weeks with a mixture of bemusement and some concern.

While i am by no means a political expert, this bill has very little to do with protecting problem gamblers. Its a mixture of various politicians in the states (including presidential candidate Bill Frist) pandering to the religious right, who donate alot of money to these politicians campaigns to further power.

Also it is to do with protectionism of the American economy. All the online gaming giants are non us, they are mainly offshore companies based in such places as Costa Rica, Antigua and Gibraltar. Where as countries like ourselves (UK) are trying to bring these companies onshore to tax and regulate, the Americans are interested in protecting casino chains like Harrahs. Also the bill excludes Horse racing, state lotteries and fantasy football which are all have American business interest related to them, because how wagering these online is any more morale than playing poker is hard to argue.

As for the non-us recreational poker player, you will notice changes but the game is going to be still there and the recreational player will generally be unaffected.

From a purely selfish point of view the online pro will be more effected, game selection maybe a problem. I like some others on here manage to grind out a living by volume if there is less table with less fish this could severely affect my win rate.

As for the sites the industry has been split down the middle on the issue with Party, Pacific, On Game, Crypto and Paradise shutting their doors to the US. Whereas Stars, Full Tilt (who had an update today to handle the increase in Traffic), Ultimate Bet and Tribecca holding firm for at least the 270 day period.

The future probably relies on a few crucial issues

1) How strictly will the legislation be enforced, it is understood that it is pretty poorly wrote piece of legislation and is open to many different interpretations.

2) Will 3rd party financial companies such as Neteller stick it out they are at the moment despite rival firepay pulling out. Neteller have clearly been having talks with sites as they have been mentioned quite candidly in bonuses at Full Tilt and Stars recently as the best way to fund us accounts.

3) Will American fish continue to play, from my experience at the table they are almost oblivious to what is going on.

4) Will the the game be taken in bigger numbers in other parts of the world.

I personally I'm with APB taking a wait and see policy, i love my job and would be very reluctant to give it up.

"2) Will 3rd party financial companies such as Neteller stick it out they are at the moment despite rival firepay pulling out. Neteller have clearly been having talks with sites as they have been mentioned quite candidly in bonuses at Full Tilt and Stars recently as the best way to fund us accounts."

the problem with the bill is that it makes the banks and financial institutions responsible as well.
If netteller would continue to allow US players to stick money into gaming accounts then the people who work for Netteller (and they have an office in the states) could be arrested as well (even the ones in different countries could be arrested upon entry to the US)

I was playing on Paradise Poker on the day they announced they were going to stop US accounts.

Not only did some of the Americans on my table not know about Paradise Poker's actions, they also hadn't heard anything about the Bill and one of them still didn't believe it after some of the other players explained it to him.  :D

IMHO The Bill has not been the same since DI Burnside left the show.

God bless the Americans ;)

It been several days now since the bill was signed. How has everyone been managing without Americans on their site? Has you noticed a difference in either the play or your eventual profits? Have you just jumped ship and headed to somewhere that still houses the Americans? I'd be interested to hear from you...

I have noticed that the sites that still have Americans have to explain to them what the bill means. some Americans are (rightly so) in a right panic about this.

The tourneys on hollywood (pokerroom's network) now see a lot less traffic...yesterday for the first time ever there weren't enough people in the 100$ tourney to beat the 20k guarantee they put up. Maybe thatw as ajust a fluke...I'll see tonight.

The americans that I have played against on some sites (amazingly) seem to have changed their games as they can't deposit anymore (or they think they can't). they have tightened up enormously. (in STT's and HU anyways)


All in all, I ain't liking it one bit..they used to be the worst HU players ever (and still are) but I didn't want them to sit there and be tight...now it takes me more then 10 hands to beat most of them ;)

I got this junk mail today. it had some good info on it. a bit spammy but still has some useful stuff.

: Your Online Poker Strategy Guide
*************************************************
Dear Steve,

=====================================================
THIS WEEK IN POKER:
* Where can I play Online Poker now?
* Is the Money I have in Poker Sites safe?
* Can I still play online Poker?
* What are the Existing Online Gambling Laws?
* The Next Step
=====================================================

* Where can I Play Online Poker now?
-----------------------------------------
Sites Accepting US & Non-US Players
 - Bodog  - - Mansion Poker -
Sites Accepting Only Non-US Players
 - Titan Poker - - Party Poker -
 - Pacific Poker - - Noble Poker -  - Poker Room -  - Full Tilt Poker -

* Is the Money I have in Poker Sites safe?
-----------------------------------------
Nothing is going to happen for the next 270 days - that's 9 months - because the board of governors and Federal Reserve System have to design an enforcement policy that will regulate the behavior of banks and credit cards, which we can surely tell you is going to be a nightmare. So, that means you'll be able to transfer your money like before within the next 9 months.

Since we're on the topic of your money, realize that the new bill now asks the banks to police a social issue which is certainly something the  American Bankers Association does not want. Second, if the Federal Reserve wants to regulate banks, then they will have to include regulating hand written checks. Imagine the amount of manual labor it will take to physically inspect millions of checks to make sure they're not going to online gambling sites. Based on this fact alone, we probably will see players be able to mail a check to make deposits into their accounts.

The point is that these off-shore Gaming companies will always be able to legally circumvent US laws because the United States have so many laws that circumvent themselves.

* Can I still Play Online Poker?
-----------------------------------------
Of course you can still play online poker. The current law passed by the United States government does not make online gaming illegal. The new bill makes it more difficult to get money into a site by making it illegal for financial institutions located within the United States to fund any type of online gambling site.

Simply put, the bill is called the "Unlawful Internet Gambling Enforcement Act." The main word here is "enforcement. This bill's purpose is to enforce laws which are already in place. Therefore, the language of the statute confirms that the new law does not change any of the existing gaming law.

* What are the Existing Online Gambling Laws?
-----------------------------------------
The main law that gets thrown around when discussing the legality of online poker is the Wire Act of 1961, which was created specifically for sports betting. Being that online poker is a totally different game from sports betting, some politicians have been trying to use the Wire Act of 1961 to claim that online poker is illegal. Since online poker has been around for 10 years and there has never been a case brought up by the Attorney General, it just reinforces the fact that the Wire Act of 1961 is not enough to make online poker illegal. The only thing the US goverment can do is to create another law similar to the Wire Act that targets online poker specifically.

Another key point is the topic of jurisdiction, which is the main reason the United States government cannot stop online poker. The United States has no jurisdiction to control companies based in other countries, so gaming sites operating offshore are not subject to any US Laws. In the legal world, a law that tries to control an offshore company is considered a law with no teeth. Companies such as NetTeller and BoDog have been able to survive this recent bill because they understand the jurisdiction laws.

Here's a list of sites that have weighed their options and decided what to do:
-----------------------------------------
Sites Accepting US & Non-US Players
 - Bodog  -  - Mansion Poker -
Sites Accepting Only Non-US Players
 - Titan Poker -  - Party Poker -  - Pacific Poker -  - Noble Poker -  - Poker Room -  - Full Tilt Poker -
We hope this email has been of some help for you and that you will continue playing one of the truly great games in the world with people from around the world.

Sincerely,



(links removed post unaffected)

Hmmm i suspect these guys have some rooting interest affiliate wise. Full tilt have been probably the most pro active in still accepting US customers, and no mention of stars at all.


(links removed in the quote post remains unaffected)

After my switch to STT's about 3 months ago. My play had moved almost exclusively to Stars and there has been little change there in my opinion, in fact i expected a surge of player from party, yet the the traffic seem about the same and the standard is awful as usual.

Also i play abit on Full Tilt during peak hours and the traffic has gone through the roof, but the standard is still rubbish. A good player if sticking to the remaining US sites will not notice hardly difference at all.

It's been crap since Sgt Cryer left.

He was no Reg Hollis

Personally, I have also noticed that my opponents are playing tighter. It's bizarre. A lot of my usual moves just aren't working, and that is deeply concerning.

What is most impactful tho is the lack of table selection. Previously, if there was a guy on the table who I thought was good, or everyone had bigger stacks than me, I'd just go and find another table. This has now become really difficult.

However, I am yet to give PokerStars a crack, so I might try them sometime this week for the first time ever.

the big problem here is that I can't deposit more than $600 a time. I like to deposit $4,000, but that would take me 2 months!

ps. on PokerStars, can you withdraw using debit cards?

Also, If I deposit using Visa, can I then withdraw using my debit card?

actually, if you can only deposit $600 every 24 hours, and $2,000 per month, how do the highrollers get going?? Do they have to start off at smaller limits?

I can withdraw to my debit card (apparently, some can't)

If you email them they will let you deposit more.

as red says if you email them they will make a few checks (to insure your not using stolen card etc ) and let you deposit more

i think stars regard debit cards highly when doing withdrawls

don't take any nonsense from Pokerstars, just tell them who you are Snoopy

I have noticed very little change. If anything traffic has increased slightly and the standard of play dropped.

If you play on a site still allowing US players then not much has changed The immediate kneejerk reaction is over and US players are considering their options, for most of them their options do not include stopping playing. The games may get sightly harder over time, but this will be a gradual process caused by the loss of new US players due to the probability of less poker on US TV and difficulties in marketing.

The new law is stupid and unenforceable. Stupid and unenforceable laws tend to get ignored.

Haven't noticed any diffrence.

Although i have just started playing on crypto which is now non-US customers, it might explain why the site is so soft (i don't buy this 'Americans are crap, we are European so must be better' attitude) if every site played as weak passive as crypto i will be very happy.

Don't know if it's a coincidence, but have noticed a lot more French and German players on the tribecca cash games. They're a little (ahem) inexperienced too! ;)

 Personally I've found this bill to be a blessing in disguise so far. The Bodog cash tables have received a fresh influx of weaker players (some decent ones too tho) and the bill has prompted me to look at some other sites (I found that you can get up to 50% rakeback on the prima network). Another benefit to me has been the reduction in the field size on paradise...Although it was my 1st love in online poker, I stopped playing there earlier this year when the MTTs were getting really big numbers (I prefer fields of 100-300 entries) the 30 rebuys on dise last week actually had overlays some nights. Also I'm hopeful that paradise will now focus on the European market, perhaps running sats to the EPT and other big events this side of the pond as well as running them at times to suit us better. Whatever I've had a very profitable couple of weeks since GWB put pen to paper and can only hope it bodes well for the future.
 
PS after speaking with various of our American cousins it seems the banks and financial institutions are up in arms over this bill and there is a real possibility of it being overturned before the 270 day deadline is reached.

That would be a relief for me.

I've had my worst weak in a long time. So bad that I'm having to take a short break from online poker. Due to my work with blonde, I can never truly escape the game, but hopefully I will still be able to return fresh.

The problem I've experienced in lack of table selection. I prefer to be billy big stack on a table of people I don't know. This is truly hard now on bpl and party where I like to play. I multi-table and don't like taking notes, but with the same faces cropping up I feel as though I'm going to have to. Similarly, I am forced to mix my game up more as I know they'll be taking notes on me.

I've also been giving PokerStars a go. Still lots of Americans on there but this is where I've lost my most money. Bizarrely, they play differently on here to my preferred sites. Although there are still lots of weak players, I am not used to knowing who the better players are, so I can't avoid sitting with some tough opponents now and then.

Also, I feel the standard is slightly higher and it's catching me out. I am used to playing in a certain way that suits very poor players. People who bluff at predictable times and always bet a monster on the River. The players on Poker Stars seem to have more flair and the moves they make are much more constructive. Also, I have noticed people check-raising me on the river with the nuts. This has totally caught me out and cost me a lot of money.

I'll see how I get on when I return, but I'd much rather go back to how life was before George Bush signed the bill.

snoop, sign up for hollywood poker mate (the pokerroom skin)..if you want easy cash games and tourneys this is where you should go

if you do sign up...sign up with a refer a friend if you don't mind....If you pm me I'll give you the name I play under on that site :)

Okay, I'll keep that in mid Boldie. Do they take debit card? I've encountered real problems with deposit limits, not being able to use my switch card, etc. Real pain in the ass.

I think so...I use a Visa electron and that works like a charm.

 Snoopy,

 I have used a similar tactic to yours on Bodog 5/10nl very successfully for 18 months now. I only sit at tables were no-one has over a 2k stack and avoid tables with 2 or more of the better players. The bizarre thing I have found is that when you run up a big stack it doesnt put the fish of joining your table....I have run up 5k-10k  stacks multiple times and tend to get a waiting list of eager yanks with dreams of winning it all off me.

 i'm not sure how the lower limits play there anymore ( I did start out on dog at 2/4nl  but very quickly progressed) but I do know that the 10/20nl game is usually a very tough game to beat.

What's the traffic like at Bodog?

Do they accept debit transactions and there are any depositing restricitons?

cheers,

snoops

Theres always plenty of action on the cash tables, especially later at night.The 5/10nl is the most profitable for me, i did start out there on 2/4 but quickly built a decent roll and moved up.  I'm not too sure about debit transactions but the customer service is very good , I found that netteller works really well (takes  1-2 hours to cash out). As regards restrictions the site is also a sportsbook so they must be used to handling large deposits.
 Be warned tho , the software is unlike any other site I have played on and takes a bit of getting used to ....I hated it when they first 'upgraded' but it does grow on you.
 

The 'upgrade' cost them 30% of their customers when they introduced it, according to one of Bodog's execs.

The previous software was generally regarded as one of the best around - no major issues at all.  Then, Bodog introduced an 'innovative' system which everyone hated.

There were all sorts of complaints/threads on 2+2 at the time from outraged customers.  Sounds like its still unchanged according to DivingDuck's post.

Sheriff

PS: I don't have an account there so I have no bias for/against it.  I just found it a fascinating decision at the time (similar to Coca Cola's 'great' idea to develop a great new recipe in the 80s!)

yeah...Man I loved New Coke!...shame they went back to that old crap.

 They have 'tweaked' it since and you now have the option of playing in something like the old version, but like I said earlier having gotten used to the upgrade I quite like it now.