The Bill - A Beagle's Perspective

[snoopy1239]

I thought some of you would be interested in this:

http://www.blondepoker.com/index.php?q=node/4604

If anyone shares any of my concerns or is in a similar position, then please post on here.

And as always, if anyone else wishes to voice their opinions on the new legislation and what it means to the future of online poker, then please feel free to post on this thread.

[byronkincaid]

there are those, such as PokerStars and Full Tilt, who continue to embrace American players. Although this is likely to come to an end once the 270 day period is over

Why do you think that snnops?

Personally as someone who is a marginal winner but plays a lot so gets nuff RB and bonuses I'm in a bit of a dodgy position unless I get my finger out and start to get good at NL holdem. Time to start hitting the strategy forums again. I'm also thinking of getting a coach. The game is definitely going to be around for a few years so there is still money to be made for good players. Instead of 8 tabling 1/2 while reading blonde and watching a film it will maybe need to be 2 tabling 5/10 while concentrating like mad. Egh sounds like hard work, where's that McDonalds application form?

[Pab]

pick me up an application form as well.....


Cant beleive how the bill was passed as well in such a underhand way. Attahced to a port security bill, which according to a few ive spoken too was improtant and never going to get rejected. The case was never reviewed in its own right, and since i make most of my money from online poker, i found this very fustrating. Weather i can still sustain a living from poker remains to be seen and its all case of wait and see at the moment!


P.S,  well written article snoops

[kvnstv]

Nice article Snoops, got to disagree with most of you here. I have been playing party for the last few days and although the guarantees are shot to sh*t there’s still decent traffic. Also I have noticed a big upswing in players from central Europe (lots of Germans) and there play is diabolical. Won’t be long before Asia starts kicking fish in to the pool as well, I don't think you chaps have much to worry.

[byronkincaid]

Would love to know how all these zillions of people in Asia are suddenly gonna start playing poker. Isn't it illegal to gamble in a lot of Asian countries? Can you access gambling sites in China? You can't in India or Dubai, you're not meant to in Thailand. Are there any foreign language poker sites? What are the poker sites doing to market themselves in Asia? I spoke to a huge Party affiliate a few years ago who said he had sites up in Chinese but to get players he needed sub-affiliates to take cash and then transfer the money onto the site for them. I presume they also have to be told how to use some sort of proxy server or something??? When he tried to get east europeans playing he found that a lot of people decided to deposit using a stolen credit card. I'm no expert on this by any means but I really hope some sites stay open to america.

Anyway the games at Full Tilt last night were rocking

[kinboshi]

I'm not 100% sure, but I think it's perfectly legal to play poker online in Japan and Korea, both large countries with large broadband penetration and a wealthy market.

These are certainly two markets that are under-developed. 

What is the legal status of online gambling in India, that's probably the market the poker sites want to crack?

[kvnstv]

I'm not 100% sure, but I think it's perfectly legal to play poker online in Japan and Korea, both large countries with large broadband penetration and a wealthy market.

Basically what he said, plus the betfair asian tour should start opening a few online doors. I think we quickly assume that the American market is the be all and end all. Its a very, very important marketplace and it can only be a matter of time before they come back, after all the move always seemed more about protectionism and exclusionism than actual moral reasons stated (frisk funded by Harrahs). In the mean time other markets will open up, they always do.

[riverdave]

Well for me at least so far it has actually been profitable, the PLO games on Stars have taken off since Party closed it's doors to the yanks. As someone who ignored the supposed fishtank that was Party it hasn't had a detrimental effect on me yet, other than not being able to deposit to a couple of sites because i'm actually in America. The views over here are fairly split many doom and gloom merchants and a few of the internet superstars looking at moving to Vegas to try and recreate their online profits in the live game. The rest are looking at ways to get round it and putting together some kind of movement to get the bill changed if it indeed even covers online poker which is a point nobody has clearly been able to prove on either side of the coin.

[roverthtaeh]

Whilst I am still on a relatively low rung of the poker ladder, I, too, am disappointed in the recently passed Bill.
It seems strange that the country which stands for freedom and democracy should adopt such a tyrannical stance.
Even stranger that the average American can peruse at will perversion and degredation, in the form of pornography, from the comfort of their own living room, yet they can't play a game of cards.

Apparently, technology exists to block computer addresses and 12 million Americans will be adversely affected.
Whenever a new car immobiliser comes onto the market, there is already somebody, somewhere, who knows how to bypass it and steal the car.....
..... I hope he's an American.

[Longy]

As an online pro myself these days, i have followed the ongoings of the last few weeks with a mixture of bemusement and some concern.

While i am by no means a political expert, this bill has very little to do with protecting problem gamblers. Its a mixture of various politicians in the states (including presidential candidate Bill Frist) pandering to the religious right, who donate alot of money to these politicians campaigns to further power.

Also it is to do with protectionism of the American economy. All the online gaming giants are non us, they are mainly offshore companies based in such places as Costa Rica, Antigua and Gibraltar. Where as countries like ourselves (UK) are trying to bring these companies onshore to tax and regulate, the Americans are interested in protecting casino chains like Harrahs. Also the bill excludes Horse racing, state lotteries and fantasy football which are all have American business interest related to them, because how wagering these online is any more morale than playing poker is hard to argue.

As for the non-us recreational poker player, you will notice changes but the game is going to be still there and the recreational player will generally be unaffected.

From a purely selfish point of view the online pro will be more effected, game selection maybe a problem. I like some others on here manage to grind out a living by volume if there is less table with less fish this could severely affect my win rate.

As for the sites the industry has been split down the middle on the issue with Party, Pacific, On Game, Crypto and Paradise shutting their doors to the US. Whereas Stars, Full Tilt (who had an update today to handle the increase in Traffic), Ultimate Bet and Tribecca holding firm for at least the 270 day period.

The future probably relies on a few crucial issues

1) How strictly will the legislation be enforced, it is understood that it is pretty poorly wrote piece of legislation and is open to many different interpretations.

2) Will 3rd party financial companies such as Neteller stick it out they are at the moment despite rival firepay pulling out. Neteller have clearly been having talks with sites as they have been mentioned quite candidly in bonuses at Full Tilt and Stars recently as the best way to fund us accounts.

3) Will American fish continue to play, from my experience at the table they are almost oblivious to what is going on.

4) Will the the game be taken in bigger numbers in other parts of the world.

I personally I'm with APB taking a wait and see policy, i love my job and would be very reluctant to give it up.

[boldie]

"2) Will 3rd party financial companies such as Neteller stick it out they are at the moment despite rival firepay pulling out. Neteller have clearly been having talks with sites as they have been mentioned quite candidly in bonuses at Full Tilt and Stars recently as the best way to fund us accounts."

the problem with the bill is that it makes the banks and financial institutions responsible as well.
If netteller would continue to allow US players to stick money into gaming accounts then the people who work for Netteller (and they have an office in the states) could be arrested as well (even the ones in different countries could be arrested upon entry to the US)

[Jon MW]

...3) Will American fish continue to play, from my experience at the table they are almost oblivious to what is going on. ..

I was playing on Paradise Poker on the day they announced they were going to stop US accounts.

Not only did some of the Americans on my table not know about Paradise Poker's actions, they also hadn't heard anything about the Bill and one of them still didn't believe it after some of the other players explained it to him. 

[yt]

IMHO The Bill has not been the same since DI Burnside left the show.

[boldie]

God bless the Americans

[snoopy1239]

It been several days now since the bill was signed. How has everyone been managing without Americans on their site? Has you noticed a difference in either the play or your eventual profits? Have you just jumped ship and headed to somewhere that still houses the Americans? I'd be interested to hear from you...