The Bill - A Beagle's Perspective

[boldie]

It been several days now since the bill was signed. How has everyone been managing without Americans on their site? Has you noticed a difference in either the play or your eventual profits? Have you just jumped ship and headed to somewhere that still houses the Americans? I'd be interested to hear from you...

I have noticed that the sites that still have Americans have to explain to them what the bill means. some Americans are (rightly so) in a right panic about this.

The tourneys on hollywood (pokerroom's network) now see a lot less traffic...yesterday for the first time ever there weren't enough people in the 100$ tourney to beat the 20k guarantee they put up. Maybe thatw as ajust a fluke...I'll see tonight.

The americans that I have played against on some sites (amazingly) seem to have changed their games as they can't deposit anymore (or they think they can't). they have tightened up enormously. (in STT's and HU anyways)


All in all, I ain't liking it one bit..they used to be the worst HU players ever (and still are) but I didn't want them to sit there and be tight...now it takes me more then 10 hands to beat most of them

[yt]

I got this junk mail today. it had some good info on it. a bit spammy but still has some useful stuff.

: Your Online Poker Strategy Guide
*************************************************
Dear Steve,

=====================================================
THIS WEEK IN POKER:
* Where can I play Online Poker now?
* Is the Money I have in Poker Sites safe?
* Can I still play online Poker?
* What are the Existing Online Gambling Laws?
* The Next Step
=====================================================

* Where can I Play Online Poker now?
-----------------------------------------
Sites Accepting US & Non-US Players
 - Bodog  - - Mansion Poker -
Sites Accepting Only Non-US Players
 - Titan Poker - - Party Poker -
 - Pacific Poker - - Noble Poker -  - Poker Room -  - Full Tilt Poker -

* Is the Money I have in Poker Sites safe?
-----------------------------------------
Nothing is going to happen for the next 270 days - that's 9 months - because the board of governors and Federal Reserve System have to design an enforcement policy that will regulate the behavior of banks and credit cards, which we can surely tell you is going to be a nightmare. So, that means you'll be able to transfer your money like before within the next 9 months.

Since we're on the topic of your money, realize that the new bill now asks the banks to police a social issue which is certainly something the  American Bankers Association does not want. Second, if the Federal Reserve wants to regulate banks, then they will have to include regulating hand written checks. Imagine the amount of manual labor it will take to physically inspect millions of checks to make sure they're not going to online gambling sites. Based on this fact alone, we probably will see players be able to mail a check to make deposits into their accounts.

The point is that these off-shore Gaming companies will always be able to legally circumvent US laws because the United States have so many laws that circumvent themselves.

* Can I still Play Online Poker?
-----------------------------------------
Of course you can still play online poker. The current law passed by the United States government does not make online gaming illegal. The new bill makes it more difficult to get money into a site by making it illegal for financial institutions located within the United States to fund any type of online gambling site.

Simply put, the bill is called the "Unlawful Internet Gambling Enforcement Act." The main word here is "enforcement. This bill's purpose is to enforce laws which are already in place. Therefore, the language of the statute confirms that the new law does not change any of the existing gaming law.

* What are the Existing Online Gambling Laws?
-----------------------------------------
The main law that gets thrown around when discussing the legality of online poker is the Wire Act of 1961, which was created specifically for sports betting. Being that online poker is a totally different game from sports betting, some politicians have been trying to use the Wire Act of 1961 to claim that online poker is illegal. Since online poker has been around for 10 years and there has never been a case brought up by the Attorney General, it just reinforces the fact that the Wire Act of 1961 is not enough to make online poker illegal. The only thing the US goverment can do is to create another law similar to the Wire Act that targets online poker specifically.

Another key point is the topic of jurisdiction, which is the main reason the United States government cannot stop online poker. The United States has no jurisdiction to control companies based in other countries, so gaming sites operating offshore are not subject to any US Laws. In the legal world, a law that tries to control an offshore company is considered a law with no teeth. Companies such as NetTeller and BoDog have been able to survive this recent bill because they understand the jurisdiction laws.

Here's a list of sites that have weighed their options and decided what to do:
-----------------------------------------
Sites Accepting US & Non-US Players
 - Bodog  -  - Mansion Poker -
Sites Accepting Only Non-US Players
 - Titan Poker -  - Party Poker -  - Pacific Poker -  - Noble Poker -  - Poker Room -  - Full Tilt Poker -
We hope this email has been of some help for you and that you will continue playing one of the truly great games in the world with people from around the world.

Sincerely,



(links removed post unaffected)

[Longy]

I got this junk mail today. it had some good info on it. a bit spammy but still has some useful stuff.

 Your Online Poker Strategy Guide
*************************************************
Dear Steve,

=====================================================
THIS WEEK IN POKER:
* Where can I play Online Poker now?
* Is the Money I have in Poker Sites safe?
* Can I still play online Poker?
* What are the Existing Online Gambling Laws?
* The Next Step
=====================================================

* Where can I Play Online Poker now?
-----------------------------------------
Sites Accepting US & Non-US Players
 - Bodog  - - Mansion Poker -
Sites Accepting Only Non-US Players
 - Titan Poker - - Party Poker -
 - Pacific Poker - - Noble Poker -  - Poker Room -  - Full Tilt Poker -

* Is the Money I have in Poker Sites safe?
-----------------------------------------
Nothing is going to happen for the next 270 days - that's 9 months - because the board of governors and Federal Reserve System have to design an enforcement policy that will regulate the behavior of banks and credit cards, which we can surely tell you is going to be a nightmare. So, that means you'll be able to transfer your money like before within the next 9 months.

Since we're on the topic of your money, realize that the new bill now asks the banks to police a social issue which is certainly something the  American Bankers Association does not want. Second, if the Federal Reserve wants to regulate banks, then they will have to include regulating hand written checks. Imagine the amount of manual labor it will take to physically inspect millions of checks to make sure they're not going to online gambling sites. Based on this fact alone, we probably will see players be able to mail a check to make deposits into their accounts.

The point is that these off-shore Gaming companies will always be able to legally circumvent US laws because the United States have so many laws that circumvent themselves.

* Can I still Play Online Poker?
-----------------------------------------
Of course you can still play online poker. The current law passed by the United States government does not make online gaming illegal. The new bill makes it more difficult to get money into a site by making it illegal for financial institutions located within the United States to fund any type of online gambling site.

Simply put, the bill is called the "Unlawful Internet Gambling Enforcement Act." The main word here is "enforcement. This bill's purpose is to enforce laws which are already in place. Therefore, the language of the statute confirms that the new law does not change any of the existing gaming law.

* What are the Existing Online Gambling Laws?
-----------------------------------------
The main law that gets thrown around when discussing the legality of online poker is the Wire Act of 1961, which was created specifically for sports betting. Being that online poker is a totally different game from sports betting, some politicians have been trying to use the Wire Act of 1961 to claim that online poker is illegal. Since online poker has been around for 10 years and there has never been a case brought up by the Attorney General, it just reinforces the fact that the Wire Act of 1961 is not enough to make online poker illegal. The only thing the US goverment can do is to create another law similar to the Wire Act that targets online poker specifically.

Another key point is the topic of jurisdiction, which is the main reason the United States government cannot stop online poker. The United States has no jurisdiction to control companies based in other countries, so gaming sites operating offshore are not subject to any US Laws. In the legal world, a law that tries to control an offshore company is considered a law with no teeth. Companies such as NetTeller and BoDog have been able to survive this recent bill because they understand the jurisdiction laws.

Here's a list of sites that have weighed their options and decided what to do:
-----------------------------------------
Sites Accepting US & Non-US Players
 - Bodog  -  - Mansion Poker -
Sites Accepting Only Non-US Players
 - Titan Poker -  - Party Poker -  - Pacific Poker -  - Noble Poker -  - Poker Room -  - Full Tilt Poker -
We hope this email has been of some help for you and that you will continue playing one of the truly great games in the world with people from around the world.

Sincerely,

Hmmm i suspect these guys have some rooting interest affiliate wise. Full tilt have been probably the most pro active in still accepting US customers, and no mention of stars at all.


(links removed in the quote post remains unaffected)

[Longy]

After my switch to STT's about 3 months ago. My play had moved almost exclusively to Stars and there has been little change there in my opinion, in fact i expected a surge of player from party, yet the the traffic seem about the same and the standard is awful as usual.

Also i play abit on Full Tilt during peak hours and the traffic has gone through the roof, but the standard is still rubbish. A good player if sticking to the remaining US sites will not notice hardly difference at all.

[RED-DOG]

It's been crap since Sgt Cryer left.

[NoflopsHomer]

It's been crap since Sgt Cryer left.

He was no Reg Hollis

[snoopy1239]

Personally, I have also noticed that my opponents are playing tighter. It's bizarre. A lot of my usual moves just aren't working, and that is deeply concerning.

What is most impactful tho is the lack of table selection. Previously, if there was a guy on the table who I thought was good, or everyone had bigger stacks than me, I'd just go and find another table. This has now become really difficult.

However, I am yet to give PokerStars a crack, so I might try them sometime this week for the first time ever.

the big problem here is that I can't deposit more than $600 a time. I like to deposit $4,000, but that would take me 2 months!

ps. on PokerStars, can you withdraw using debit cards?

Also, If I deposit using Visa, can I then withdraw using my debit card?

[snoopy1239]

actually, if you can only deposit $600 every 24 hours, and $2,000 per month, how do the highrollers get going?? Do they have to start off at smaller limits?

[RED-DOG]

Personally, I have also noticed that my opponents are playing tighter. It's bizarre. A lot of my usual moves just aren't working, and that is deeply concerning.

What is most impactful tho is the lack of table selection. Previously, if there was a guy on the table who I thought was good, or everyone had bigger stacks than me, I'd just go and find another table. This has now become really difficult.

However, I am yet to give PokerStars a crack, so I might try them sometime this week for the first time ever.

the big problem here is that I can't deposit more than $600 a time. I like to deposit $4,000, but that would take me 2 months!

ps. on PokerStars, can you withdraw using debit cards?

Also, If I deposit using Visa, can I then withdraw using my debit card?

I can withdraw to my debit card (apparently, some can't)

If you email them they will let you deposit more.

[Ironside]

as red says if you email them they will make a few checks (to insure your not using stolen card etc ) and let you deposit more

i think stars regard debit cards highly when doing withdrawls

[Tonji]

don't take any nonsense from Pokerstars, just tell them who you are Snoopy

[Wardonkey]

I have noticed very little change. If anything traffic has increased slightly and the standard of play dropped.

If you play on a site still allowing US players then not much has changed The immediate kneejerk reaction is over and US players are considering their options, for most of them their options do not include stopping playing. The games may get sightly harder over time, but this will be a gradual process caused by the loss of new US players due to the probability of less poker on US TV and difficulties in marketing.

The new law is stupid and unenforceable. Stupid and unenforceable laws tend to get ignored.

[Royal Flush]

It been several days now since the bill was signed. How has everyone been managing without Americans on their site? Has you noticed a difference in either the play or your eventual profits? Have you just jumped ship and headed to somewhere that still houses the Americans? I'd be interested to hear from you...

Haven't noticed any diffrence.

Although i have just started playing on crypto which is now non-US customers, it might explain why the site is so soft (i don't buy this 'Americans are crap, we are European so must be better' attitude) if every site played as weak passive as crypto i will be very happy.

[vegaslover]

Don't know if it's a coincidence, but have noticed a lot more French and German players on the tribecca cash games. They're a little (ahem) inexperienced too!

[divingduck]

 Personally I've found this bill to be a blessing in disguise so far. The Bodog cash tables have received a fresh influx of weaker players (some decent ones too tho) and the bill has prompted me to look at some other sites (I found that you can get up to 50% rakeback on the prima network). Another benefit to me has been the reduction in the field size on paradise...Although it was my 1st love in online poker, I stopped playing there earlier this year when the MTTs were getting really big numbers (I prefer fields of 100-300 entries) the 30 rebuys on dise last week actually had overlays some nights. Also I'm hopeful that paradise will now focus on the European market, perhaps running sats to the EPT and other big events this side of the pond as well as running them at times to suit us better. Whatever I've had a very profitable couple of weeks since GWB put pen to paper and can only hope it bodes well for the future.
 
PS after speaking with various of our American cousins it seems the banks and financial institutions are up in arms over this bill and there is a real possibility of it being overturned before the 270 day deadline is reached.