blonde poker forum

we had an interesting conversation on the way to brighton on friday, the arif poker bus was trundling along the m25 doing 1 mph for 24 miles when a certain european number 1 saids to me , i hope i get all the good players on my table .
I said to him ....thats exctly whay i was hoping for, we then had a long discussion on the standards of live poker and how they seem to becoming just like the tinternet....   
The internet , as you would expect ,  is  a frightening place to play in the early parts of the tournements. MAINLY DUE TO THE LARGE NUMBERS OF NEW PLAYERS THAT SIT DOWN AND LEARN AT A TOURNEY TABLE. that will not change for years to come, and why should it because they put great added value into said tourneys. If you can get through the first 3 levels the donks seem to drop away and you can formulate your betting patterns to suit the players on the table , a perfect example of this is the pokerstars sunday million, great value, loads of chips . Playing big hands early gets you in serious trouble unless you put 15 times the big blind.   so you play suited and unsuited connectors see load of cheap flops and wham bang you are chipped up.

Now back to the subject of live poker , after playin non stop in 4 different countries in the last 12 weeks we had to settle back into the uk ranking tourneys in the search for those elusive points ..........


First stop Blackpool.  ..  6 touneys, most had 140 to 170 runners  .... it was like wading through treacle in flippers. now im not ofor talking about hands , in fact we have a rule in the shadows team bus , no poke3r talk or you get fined.   But all i could hear during the  Blackpool week was tale after tale from the established players.
Horror stories of people calling for gutshots all in , one guy called for all his chips intoi a one outer and hit.......ariston is far bettered suited to give specific examples as he was helpin djinn with reports , but i have to say it was the first time i have felt uncomfortable at a tourney ,,,  nothing was standard , you reraise to find out were you where   , get flat called than they would lead out when a rainbow rag turned.

next stop was straight to walsall.   my lucky casino.............  again massive fields full of complete fish , you get through 100 players and get moved to a table where the following happened..........  i raise under the gun with  55 i get reriased the minimum. i calll  ............

flop 582 rainbow............
i check............
he bets ............
i go all in .......................  expecting aa kk qq

 he thinks for 1 nanu second and calls for all but 1200 of his stack ....................one thing i forgot to mention this was in a £500 "buy in" tourney, in the second level , the levels were 45 minutes.

What did the guy have .................ak diamonds ,  the flop held one diamond,,,,,,   HE SAID TO ALL WHO WOULD LISTEN  "BEST HAND I HAVE HAD ALL DAY"  AND THEN HIT RUNNER RUNNER DIAMONDS TO KNOCK ME OUT..........................................................

I THINK I HEARD APPROXIMATLEY 20 OTHER HORROR STORIES THROUGHOUT THE WEEK. the problem is,, we are trying to make a living  these people have no idea what they are doing .........so scary.

NOW THEFINAL STOP IN THREE SOLID WEEKS OF POKER WAS ROYAL BRIGHTON...........

 i cant begin to explain what it was like playin at the rendevous ...........it was the worst experience i have ever had  playin any sport i can think of....i settled downon my table with a table full of players who should have had "l plates"  on.......... There was one decent plAYER on my table he looked over and said after the first level "we need to get off this table its horryifying".

here was more examples than i can care to remember , the worst culprit was a woman to my right who was guilty of calling down every street to hit gutshots .  callin down with 3rd pair and hitting 2 pair . one time a guy had kk she had q9 off..  he raised preflop she called flop j 9 2 rainbow . kk led out she called  turn ace..  he bet she called river queen he bet she called.

2nd example was a classic she had 67 flop 345 turn   9 river king ........... she called 500 flop 500 turn 1000 on the river WITH THE ABSOLUTE NUTS.



DESPITE HAVIN THE FOLLOWING STARTING HANDS IN THE FIRST LEVEL ON A ONE HOUR.   QQ QQ QQ KK KK AK AK TT............I WENT FROM 10 K TO 2400 K.
I CLAWED MY WAY BACK UP TO 10 K IN THE third LEVEL ,WHEN I WENT OUT WITH THE NUT FLUSH ON THE TURN i wont bore you with the betting but he went all in when the flush came,  i called ,,,,,,,,, then he said DAMN, I DIDNT GO ALL IN ON THE TURN COS I WAS WAS SCARED OF THE FLUSH..................................

but still l  went all in when the flush ahd come ............ yep u guessed it , he hit the case king to hit the fh........ has it hsppened there was 666 to my left this winner had 444 on flop and the terryfying women had kj (2 pair ).



Now i know the obvious answer from most people will be,,,,,  you want these people to be at your  table ,,  they also add value to the tournements...........

BUT, AND ITS A BIG BUT, HOW DO YOU PLAY THEM,, we drove back from brighton at 1 am  discussing this subject . standard raises no longer exist , you have to make it 8 times the bb and if you get callers you have to bomb the flop.  we discussed position and  how its effect is diluted by the clueslles callers of the reraise who then go all in by leading out , even though they havent got a clue where they are........................


i must admit i am , at this moment totally fed up with the whole thing.......... the grosvener events arent worth investing in for the whole week because it becomes a game more leaning towards roulette..............the ANSWER IS OUT THERE SOMEWHERE .


SEE YOU ALL AT LUTON TOMMOROW IS THE ANSWER ........................ 
ANY SENSIBLE COMMENTS WELCOME


SRRY FOR THE GRAMMAR CANT BE BOTHERED CHECKIN IT

I think the only answer when it gets really bad, is to tighten up, and raise more pre-flop when you do get dealt the premiums.

That or play everything on the cheap, and overbet when you hit big flops of 2 pair+.

You keep the good ones, i will take the bad ones!

Ul with your A9, i saw the hand play out.

That's a hell of a lot of 50ps you owe.

It seems the thrust of your argument is 'bad players call me with rubbish cards - how do you play them?' The answer is to continue what you are doing, getting your chips in with the best of it. You will win in the long run. You just need a bankroll big enough to deal with the variance.

I hardly play live at all, but reading this makes me want to rush out and start... is that wrong? :dontask:

I posted ages ago that live players call more than internet players and I got laughed at. On 2+2 it seems to be accepted that live players are far fishier than internet players, but not here??? I don't play live enough to know the answer, maybe it just hurts more when you've got a 3 hour drive home to stew over your bad beat.

I have being saying that for a while aswell, the standard live is far below that of online poker.

I agree with Flushy on this but you might find that it is the same people.

I play a better game on the tinternet than I do live! I can say that, I know it is true although the difference is a lot less than it used to be.

Im very used to playing on the net, I do it with other distractions like the telly and Im so used to it that it is sometimes boring.

The amount I play live however is a lot less, it is more of a novelty and it is sometimes an occasion for me. If I didnt have a day job I would play a lot more live as I enjoy it more than the net. But as it is I only get to play once or twice a fortnight - playing twice in a week is a real rarity for me.

The result - I do things that I wouldnt do online, and as I think I have a better performance on line, those variations, in the long run, are the wrong thing to do.

I think there are a lot of poker players the same as me, as the number of live card rooms expand and games become more accesible this will change, but an online game, especially cash or an stt will always be the easiest way to play for people like me who dont play for a living.

Very interesting and informing post.

I have played in the first two APAT live tournaments which is pretty much all my live experience.

However i have found that i personally play a much more balanced game live than online. It seems a lot easier to throw away the junk hands live than online when you just have to click the mouse.

I would say though that the nature of these two events has no doubt been different to the average festival event, with 10,000 starting chips and 40min levels it is possible to feel your way into the table and the event itself.

I hope to increase my live experience and not to come across as too much of a fish.

quantify - if you want to practice how to play a table full of fish - go on any freeroll site (or very low buy in)and i can guarantee you after a week or so you will have them worked out.
:D


One thing I must say that the rules of 'poker logic' do not apply to the full table or majority (6-7) of  really bad players.   Their hand selection is slightly different - any sooted will do, and connector, Ax/kx/jx/Qx is playable.  But those players are usually very easy to read.
 
check raise is not understood by those people, nor any other smart moves. 1/2 pot is seen as a weak bet against them/ they will not think what you have they only look at their cards...so it is you job to get used to what for them is a good hand- and cheap online  tourneys will teach you.

oh and bluffing doesn't work against majority of them if they have any piece of the board.

 gl next time.

Having just been sent packing from an online tourney by a mid stack who raised my AK to all in with 56 suited I'd say it's hardly just the live games that suffer.

People are learning. At my expense sometimes, I guess. What did he think? That I was bluffing? That he has a soooted connector and therefore it had to be worth a shout?

God knows, but as a 'veteran' with only a few months play under my belt all I do is tighten up and let others engage. They'll be found out eventually.

i just got aa bustted by jj in will hill 40 k

kk busted against 77 in laddies


y and the 5th is the current onegot 46k in stars million averages 14k i played this tourney 5 times cashed 3 1 got nuked early.

ive worked the formula out  in stars just gotta work something for the  codheads

Is this not why we can all make bucket loads of money without doing much work?

When playing on tables with really bad players you have to change your game entirely, you cant play "good" poker.  As someone has already suggested, playing smaller buy in tournaments is the answer.  If you usually play higher buyins then the prospect of a £10 freezeout or a £5 rebuy may seem like a waste of time but sitting with these players at these stakes is a great way to understand them.

thanxs for that bob . interestingly the first tourney i ever played wasa 100 erebuy  and i have never played in anything less in the time ive been playin . my lack of experience in lower levels cud be crucial .......... spending a full nite with the shoaLS  cud be a killer thyough.
 but you right if you want to know how they live ...... visit there home ty

good to see that snobbery is alive and well in poker

Says the man who turned down a pork pie.  :D

it was contaminated by a jock flag !!

And here is the proof ... a perfectly good pie ruined !!

Its funny that poker is prolly the only game/sport on the planet where people complain when the standard of opposition gets worse and worse. It really shouldn't be rocket science to figure out what it takes to beat them. They are bad players for a reason right?


Also what I wanna know is what makes someone a "good" player, because it seems to me that most peoples definition of a good player is someone who is predictable. Raises from UTG with big hands, limps with marginal hands, and doesn't 3-bet allin without a strong hand. That isn't a good player, its probably not even a winning player, and its no wonder people like to play against these nits.

I'd simply remain patient and make my bets bigger. The key to playing weak players is keeping pots small unless you are fully confident in your hand. Bet big with monsters and tread carefully with those hands that are vulnerable.

These players make so many poor plays that sooner or later one of them is going to bum you. It's how you deal with these beats that make you a good player.

Bearing in mind I was one of only four female players at Brighton have I just read my own slagging off in public? (I can't remember my hands by the way so I can't recognise if that was me).

in front when the $ goes in,
short term fluctuations inevitable,
welcome the fish with open arms
& button the whinging
xx

Well Tracey i don't know if the Q9 was you but Nick gave the impression it was by the same lady who had KJ later on, i figured he was slagging her (Debbie Rogers) in all the hands, not you.

Couldn't agree more.

I LOVE getting people at my table that suck. Yes they might beat me but you can always get outdrawn by people. The standard of live poker is mainly dropping because there are soo many sats to big tourneys out there but that's not a bad thing. So you get knocked out every now and again by someone who MAYBE should not have been calling. Sometimes people hit their runner runner or their one outer. It happens even on the higher levels and even "good" players do it to you.
You only hear people complain when they get knocked out by "bad" players, I have yet to hear someone say "Well, I won this tourney but then again there were soo many lousy players in there beefing up the prize money I just about had to win it as I was the best."

I prefer playing against good players myself as it's easier to put them on a hand or get them to lay one down..especially the laying one down part. I got knocked out of a tourney the other day where someone called my all-in with Aces with 57 off soot and cracked them. It happens. I want those people to call when I'm holding a big hand every single time.
everyone goes through a bad run every now and again so that happens.

On a more controversial note (no offense intended) maybe if you don't know how to play lousy players maybe you're not as good as you think you are. I really don't mean to question someone who has undoutebly made more money then me in poker in a disrespectfull way but if you can't figure out how to beat someone who sucks you're probably not as good as you think you are and I would review my game to deal with those players.

Poker is very dynamic at the moment with loads of new players adding to the prize pool, this can only be considered a good thing but it does mean you have to keep reviewing your game.
I am sure all the older players first thought long and hard about how to deal with those internet scandies who were much more agressive then they were. Some of them might have complained but the really good ones probably thought "My God, these guys are nuts...but the prizepools are much bigger now..so let's figure this thing out."..that's the sign of a true class act.

Finally, there is always an element of luck to the game...people tend to forget this in poker. Poker is not JUST a game of skill, EVERY ONE needs to get lucky a few times to win a big tournament..and I rarely hear someone admit that they were lucky 4x during a tournament which they won.

Didn't realise it was Nick when the post came on - I know it wasn't me as  I didn't play him at all in Brighton - phew! Having said that I did make the most terrible outdraw on the final table, I turned to Mickey Wernick and said "I'm so embarrassed, that was the most amatuerish play" and he said - "you should be little lady it was"!   ;oopsy;

Its becoming impossible to read people at one of the casinos i go to.

Mainly because they have no idea what hand they hold themselves.

Had to explain to one for about 10 minutes the other day that his trip 5s lost because someone has a straight when i was dealing.

I take it that was a completely new player?

 ;iagree; what a waste,you could have treated the eating of said pie as a symbolic gesture such as Robin Hood beating up Williiam Wallace, good enough reason to eat it IMO

Robin Hood?

Yer 'avin a laff, did you mean to say Friar Tuck?

Last time I played down at the Rendevous there was a guy that made an all in move and another player was thinking it over. At this point a young guy at the table said go on you can afford to call him. The guy that had gone all in objected to him intervening, but he carried on and persuaded the guy to call and sure enough he won the hand.
The young guy didn't know what the problem was as Tony G does this all the time on the telly!

oooh, can we have another Tony G thread.

It's been like a whole week  :-* :kiss:

I've got to add to this thread now, with 50p at the ready

Just played the £200 freeze, first event of Luton Xmas festival

Its a one night comp, a quick structure and there are 28 left and I have 20,000 blinds just going 600-1200 so no bother

Of the 90 runners 15 are wearing "Poker Project" shirts


I discover early on that this is a social poker game played in a pub in Ealing, for no money!

Anyway they are basically rookies

UTG project guy moves all in for 21,000 on my BB

He has done the same last hand with K9 suited, and won vs 10s

Hand before he re-raised UTG raiser all in with A7 off. He split the pot with opponents AK

I find AK off, and call for all my chips.

He flips A4 off

board 2 5 9 K 3

thank you and goodnight!

Sorry for the rant, but someone get me alcohol!

you don't wanna be risking your tournament life with Ace high mate. It's a drawing hand. ;D

Ooops - you went in ahead - always a mistake.  ;scarymoment;

thanks!


words are currently failing me to respond wittily

I can imagine. Sorry Tighty.  :(

If he didn't play those hands, he wouldn't have all those chips.

true. rant over. back to TWO WORD POKER STORY for a while!

Spooky, TE. Same thing happened to me in an online freeroll today, clear evidence if it were needed.

My AJ vs QJ vs A4, all-in preflop for the entire ball of wax... board K 2 T 5 3 !

(Perchance could it have been the same player? ;scarymoment;)

My view is that although TV has been great for poker, it has been the reason for the change in the game.

I have spoken to many of the "old time" pro's (I wont name them cos they prob dont think they are old time! lol) but the general opinion is shared by them as well.

Poker has NOT become a game of luck as alot of people claim due to the new "novices" playing, it has evolved into a new game - still with the SAME element of Luck and Skill, but with a far far greater variiance.

It may seem like it is impossible to win a tourney sometimes due to people playing bad hands and hitting time and time and time again, but this is just the bigger variance, and as with variance, it SHOULD also work the other way round.
I am still waiting for the later, but keep telling myself it will come. (Not at APAT though when I re raise all in with KK only for the origional raiser to call me for 4/5ths of his stack with 99 and duly hits the 9 on the river)

Having said that, I have noticed the live cash games alot easier to beat than they used to be, but is this also the right side of the variance??? As I dont play enough live cash I cannot say.

I also prefer to be against people with an understanding of poker rather than complete novices, but this is for the challenge at beating them, and the quest for more and more poker knowledge, but I do take the point about it being easier to get the former to lay down a hand if he believes you have what you are representing.

The APAT tourney was a classic example, now I am not saying ALL the players there were novices, but it was clear that many of them had not played much (if any) live poker if any poker at all.
Classic example was on my table, I had not been able to get going at all, not hitting any flops and knowing that I could not bluff at many pots, left me down to 7500 with 20 minutes before the first break.
One player had commented that I was a VERY tight player - to which I replied "yes I am" - knowing I could use this to my advantage before the break to get back to the starting stack of 10,000.
Well I didnt have to wait long before I got the oppotunity.
I was BB and got to see a flop for free (I purposely made that disgruntled noise when looking at my hole cards, loud enough for the guy who commented on me being tight to hear, he was in the pot along with one other and the SB)
Flop came 3 4 6 rainbow (I had 3 5) THIS was the hand I was going to build the pot THEN make my play at it.
The SB bet out 500 and I called VERY quickly. The other two also came along for the ride, but DID notice how quick I called. The Turn bought a rainbow J, and the SB now checked, so did I (showing strength again which was also noticed). The other two were obviously concerned at my check, and both checked as well.
River card came a 9 and the SB checked.
THIS WAS IT!!! With close on 3000 in the pot, I bet out 2000.
The guy who had made the comment about me being tight, thought for an eternity and decided to call!!! The others folded, and what did he show? I expected AJ or two pair, but no,, he called me down with just A9 - second pair, and this was after commenting on me being at tight player. GREAT call as it turned out, but for all the wrong reasons, not because he thought he was ahead, but just to see if he was ahead. lol

Good story, it seems to back up the old mantra that beginners only play their cards, and completely ignore their opponents' possible holdings...

Tony G does not do that all the time at all. He may try and get a call against himself whilst holding the goods(which is part of speech play) but he wouldnt encourage a player to call against another opponent. These are 2 totally different situations

yeah..the "come on you can afford it" if you are not in the hand  is against the rules on most websites even. In live play it's unacceptable.

Interesting post. The APAT events are specifcally designed and marketed to attract new players into the game, so its a different kettle of fish from seeing complete rookies in a festival event!


your point about greater variance though is spot on, many players this year in these big festival fields (more so in 2006 than previously) are either a) locals/newbies spinning it up/taking a shot or b) loose gamblers wanting to get chips early in addition to the 60-70 or so regulars that play the circuit. Its thus changed the make up of the field and the style of play you need to compete. In part that is also because structures are quicker in the side events.

If you don't mix it and get chips to withstand them, you are a sitting duck waiting for the inevitable outdraw and disappointment

My last two live games I have left deep in the Tourney with AK all in preflop. Never again!

Against a rookie who wanted to push all in pre flop with anything seemingly and had no concept of deepish stack festival play, I wasn't going to pass AK there. Against a known player or players to raise/re-raise heavy action I might well do so, thats the difference.


After a nights sleep it does make me laugh. 15 or 20 of these numpties had the rest of the field (mostly by then on the cash tables!!!) chuntering away.

I'll look later to see how many made the final with elblondie, 77dave and ash hussain


my over/under is 0/1!!

m3boy points out a very good point, live cash games are currently bananas. Get in a £25 dealers choice at a casino with a low buy in tourney night and they have barely mastered the basics of hold em tournament play so cash omaha and irish are just insane value. I have had some good tournament results this year and am significantly ahead but i've made more in the 7 nights of dealers choice i've played this year than the tournament winnings added together.

In these games your solid play really does pay, these games often end up with a 1k - 2k at the table within a couple of hours and i've emptied them 3 times. I've started to raise every hand at the start now to get the action going and just seems to snowball for about 4 hours of crazy money. Choose your game wisely though, i went to play with the bigger boys after one night and although the standard is not exactly top class they are total loons and you need deep pockets.

really?!?!?! i may have to check out these live cash games!!  :D

this is exactly right


on the right night, especially fridays/saturdays in provincial casinos some players are in the cash games to gamble..an alternative to roulette if you will...rather than play good poker

I know in my local several regulars winning consistently from the steady supply of spratt fed into these games with deep pockets. Balls of steel occasionally required though when you want to pass but have to call because the percentages suggest this would pay against this type of player

I object to being called sprat - stop wittering and go win a sattelitte.

you are up to shark level these days.

No, I'm referring to casino game punters sitting in the hold em cash games and punting. Or just the rich loosey gooseys

I was thinking I was the  rich loosey goosey?

Just watched Dimitri Nobles donk off his stack at the WSOP main event.  Its a pity the TV programmes don't show more of this rather than cocentrating on the suck out's.  I just love when the odds catch up with the gamblers.

i have reallly started something here .........
firstly dingdellyou took me out at the fitzwilliam after the ept final table, i offer no excuse for playin 35 92 93 and reraising those oirish guys ....  it was all planned to pass my chips to you......  your a decent player unlik the lady who shall remain nameless ...  even though flushy named her lol


right ..........  last night colchester kev was watching over my shoulder .......... he watched one guy calll bets on every street with ace high on both occasions he was against 88 .. on both occasions there was a k on board  he hit the ace on the river twice.................

but the worst one was ben from brum who had 3 limpers into his aa he potted it and got one caller who ha q7 he potted it ben repotted and the board was qt2k7.

me and woodley gave him the bird..........   he then tok me in a hand were we both hit trip 444 he then said........... there you go , i just play poker whilst you 2 can only talk about it........................  so funny the response was ,,,,, the good thing about giving chips to you is they wont be with you long.......... at which point i thought he was going to explode ..............  woodley has some great lines......

Am I missing the point here Nick?

If we have AA & Mr Numpty has Q-7, surely we are delighted at his appalling call 7 or 8 times out of 10, yes?

So I don't thnik we ought to complain when he hits twice or thrice in 10!

We can't have our cake AND eat it. We WANT bad calls. But sometimes they hit. But over time, we want them to call with their trash.

I think the point Nick is making is that he does NOT want these calls.

Bizzare but true!

All I can possibly think of for you feeling like this Nick,is you must be having a bad run of form.
When things turn round you will be welcoming these players with open arms.
Please stop telling them how bad they are, you might scare them away for ever.

Also do you want these calls in a festival event where when they hit , thats it ...goodnight vienna.

Online you want them every time because when they do hit, you can join another game or re load and stack them ... at a festival event its more frustrating because you have paid all your expenses etc... only to have to face the long drive home mulling over a donk knocking you out of a comp.


One more thing that occurred to me last night while watching Nicks table was that Nick was playing and raising an awful lot of pots and I cant help thinking that his style of play loosens up a table greatly, So maybe ...just maybe .. its all your own fault Nick :D

I think I've been whooshed. If we have the Aces, & we don't want a call from Q-7, what hands DO we want to call us?

Thats the risk of tournaments. Festivals or not. Cant believe you stated that Kev >:?

This must be some sort of in-joke. You wanna be called by Q-7 when you have AA ANYWHERE, ANYTIME, the bigger the comp the better.

what im trying to say craig is that it hurts more when you are playing a fessie event, because thats your lot.  we have both been to enough festivals to know how frustrated people get when they get kippered, what do they always say "At this level... how can they call at this level"    while I agree that you will take their chips more often than they get yours, it still hurts ... and thats where the frustration is evident in Nicks posts.

Maybe not in a sat....

At a true donkarment is the best way to beat them not to wait till you've got a bigger edge post flop.

Limp in with everything and then bet the farm on the nuts. Or make a wee bet when you know everyone else in the pot has completely missed.

ie, if they truly are horrible poker players, shouldn't you be playing poker with them, instead of pre-flop bingo.

Wonder if theres a spare seat in the big game at the bellagio.

your right and your wrong tony.

yes i ave had a run of terror suckouts, but i have explaind in the other thread , the problem is not the one q7 it is the amount of times it is happening , i dont mean just to me , last nght was scary on our fist table and yes there were some horrendous plays but im complaining whilst i was chip leader at the table from the the beggiining of the tourney  until they broke it .

lthat is not my beef , i cant beleive with the size of poker in the the uk we have to play under a pub mentality with such a broad range of skill sets , now before you  all jump at me , i dont think im anywhere near the top level of uk players but i willbe in 2/3 years and to get to that level i want to play and learn from better players. weel it just isnt happening because of the standards.

divisionalise skill levels let the best play with the best and uk poker will improve , we have good plyers .  but what are we learning under the current format , not a lot. 

of course i want callers with q7 against aa but it will never happen in a quality event AND A 1000 POUND BUY IN IN THE UK SHOULD BE A QUALITY EVENT .

Why should a 1000 pound event have to be quality, the point about poker is that anyone can play it. This really is snobbery.

Turning people away because they're not good enough to play with you?

Surely this is just a wind up.........

Possibly the most bizzare post Ive ever read.

All this thread needs now is an appearance by VANDEM to put the icing on a very unedible cake.

this is so typical of styeriotypical abc thought process , IF I DONT AGREE ILL JUST SAY THIS IS CRAP.

WHY IS POKER FOR EVERYONE, why cant the main events be driven by quality, your arguement falls right out the window ffs in one sentence.

who on this forum can afford to play in 1000 pound events............................................. ooops poker isnt for everyone, thats the problem its for those with deeper pockets.

it should be for the best, why does nobody see the value in improving quality in what is becomein the biggest sport /game in the world  .

 WHERE IS OUR AMBITION.

ABC POKER ABC THOUGHTS,  THE SURE FIRE WAY TO BE AVERAGE.

I would rather the field in a £1,000 tournament be full of players who have never played the game before and don't even know the hand rankings. So would 99% of players who read this.

what about your ABC thought process? IF PEOPLE DONT AGREE WITH ME, THEY ARE THE ONES IN THE WRONG?

Normally when a bunch of logical sensible intelligent people oppose someone who has displayed none of those traits, its not likely that the majority is in the wrong. 

Lets try it another way

WHY WOULD YOU WANT TO PLAY AGAINST THE BEST?

real poker players care about making money, not challenging themselves, not getting elitist clubs where they can all sit around and pat each other on the back at their awesome limp re-raises with AA. I cant understand why this is such a hard thing to understand. If you want to play against poeple that always let you know where they stand, that is ok, but understand that they are not good players either.

As for ambition, if I had any ambition in life I wouldn't be playing poker for a living.

that is a real shame , you play poker to try and win some cash , but where is your ambition, why would you want to win a 1000 tourney and not want to invest in an ept ............

 is it now  STARTING to make sense to you , im looking at this from wanting to get somewhere, you are looking at it to try and win some dough,   they come hand in hand .

the urge to be at the top is my want , so pleease understand my rants , cos i understand you basic instinct to gamble to win some money.

if you want to be at the top, then figure out how to beat the bad players, figure out how to embrace the variance, and figure out how to keep your emotions in check. Once you have mastered that, then you can figure out how to beat the best players, because if you cant master the former, you will never be able to master the latter.

I don't think it's a serious poster..

Who says " I want better players who know what they are doing so I win less money please"

What in fact it seems like you are saying quantify is...

.."I find it hard to handle the variance of tournament play and frustrating that my hands don't always hold up"

Yup, that's poker. For god's sake don't start laying into players who call/reraise big raises with Q7 then get their chips in on a Q high flop against your Aces when you're deep. This is a gift. Why complain? You're not good enough to find better edges than this.

Suggesting divisions of skills is ridiculous. Like many poker players, you might have aspirations of winning the WSOP. Impossible to do unless you can deal with lots of weak players like the dmitri nobles of this world as well as strong players (and have lashings of luck and cards.) The bad players add money to the prizepool. Why do you want to win less money?

I think you should redefine your idea of what a good player is.

Someone who complains about too many bad players, directly insults players who stack off with Q7 on a Q hi flop, and suggests segregating skill levels in poker (!!!) wouldn't be regarded as a good player by most of the decent players i know.

that is ridicoulus im a bad player because i dont want a crazy play against me.

the problem here is this;  it would happen in  a 5 rebuy , it would happen in a 20 rebuy , it may happen in a 100 rebuy,  it wouldnt happen in an ept it wouldnt happen in an wpt etc in such numbers .......... it would happen in the wsop cos their is so many nightmares .......

so where is the line........... 1000  shud it or shud it not happen.  tis the question.

OK I GIVE UP JUST MAILED TK , WAT STARTED OFF AS A RANT HA BECOME ME PLAYIN DEVILS ADVOCATE , ILL STOP NOW . LOL

Trust me it does, there is donk a plenty in the WSOP and I was happy to have em.

Crazy plays don't happen in big comps, apart from the wsop?

What's this hand all about then from the EPT in september....?


Quote from an EPT report...

"A pretty sick hand here at the EPT. Beware, guys - here goes.

Player A raises to 1900 from fairly early position with an A5. Player B, 19 years old, smells weakness and reraises to 5000. A senses wekness as well - and decides to call.

The flop comes Q 7 4 , meaning both players have absolutely nothing - no pair, no draw. A checks and then B bets 6,000. Now A decides to check-raise to 20K - so now the hand is over, right? Well, not exactly: B moves all-in with a jack high, no pair / no draw. And A is now so committed with only 8K left, that he decides to call with an ace high / no pair / no draw. No help on the turn and river for either player, and A wins a massive 70K pot - with absolutely nothing!"

2 bad players?

thats why i said it would happen in the wsop.

oh ive stopped i forgot

When the best play against each other, another breed emerges. The best of the best.

If everyone in the UK spends all their time playing against the minnows and the donks, the standard of the best UK poker players will fall below that of the standard of top Scandinavian and US players.

Too many evenings, people leave poker tournaments when they "know" they have done the right thing, but just got unlucky. If they start exiting because they feel they have been outplayed, they will strive to do something better next time. They will iron their game until it's the best it can be. In turn this forces others to improve and so on and so on.

Those with deep pockets arn't just in it for the money, they have enough money anyway. Sure the financial side of things will always be deep at the root of poker, but surely there's something to be said for the competitive side of things too.

We need to take action, maybe everyone who goes into a casino has to first beat the coat check girl at heads up 7-card stud. Ok this perhaps isn't the most practical suggestion, but I don't see you guys coming up with anything.

You're all content to sit back and count the money coming in. That's all very well, but all the tabloid headlines and gold medals will be taken and won by the Iveys and Snogstrom's out there. Before you know it, you will have waken up one morning to find that there is no room in the new world order for the Jones's and Barrington Smyth's. What then, we can all find another game to be mediocre at?

of course they happen in the ept its the regularity , well done you found one,

damn stop this put yer laptop away ......;)

Those two should be banned from playing big buy-in comps until they have proved they can play properly  ;grr;

Its not a team sport, i don't care if English players are shit if i am winning

What about that dumbass who called my all in with 8's with A3s at the Broadway last Friday.  The shit rivered me and knocked me out last week.  WHAT A FACKKKING LIBERTY.  ACE FACKKING 3 SOOTTEEED.   IT'S THE LAST TIME THEY ESCORT ME FROM THE PREMESIS.

SWEET SOOTHING CIDER EASES THE PAIN

Wake up Flushy when was the Last Time you Won anything Live  lol

lol

Friggin' hell, after reading through all this, had to take stock and check it wasn't april 1st.
Have complete bemused look on my face.
IMHO I want crap players at my table everytime.

When i bet on Pab to beat your drunk ass!

So a Prob bet is all You have won in a Live Tournament is IT !!!!!!!

Oi, leave Flushy be.

He's shit-hot at snap.

prop bet, biggest live cash?

Please, i got a very credible 9th in Brighton last week....

and Tiddly winks Ginger told me

Ayyyyyyyyyyyaaarrrrr Flushy must of been away  Congrats Man Proud of you

lol git.

HU game next time we meet up

Pab, I bet his Prop bet win was bigger than his 9th place finish in Brighton Eh !! LOL

Any Place anywhere Flushy for any amount even when I am Pissed i cant lose to you

He still not said what competiton he came 9th in, I hear all sorts goes on in brighton...............

LOL, where's Barry when you need him

hold on he got 5% of me E75 in drogheda looooooooool

Oi, finalled in Singapore event aswell, so please have some respect!

How many live comps have you won Pab? I can't remember  ;whistle;

its hard to win live, the standard is too high!

Oi Flushy, Dont bite the hand that feeds you

IM not even into double figures for live comps entered yet mug..

Biggest live cash?

Biggest online cash?

Shall we close this arguemnt flushy?

 ;popcorn;

 ;popcorn; ;popcorn; ;popcorn; ;popcorn;

Thats cheating though, you have actually won stuff.

Come on Pab, Dont Pick on the Poor Lad

Flushy baiting!!
My favourite sport, there should be a button that sends out an auto PM to direct the viewing public to this sort of thing :D

BTW Pab is sh*te live too LOL

We need another Yongsta home game

yep sorry, should have bantered for a while before ending it, frankly, i couldnt be arsed

NOTE TO PAB: In future banter for a bit for your pop corn chewing public

 ;goodvevil;

OK flushy, you prove your worth in the live poker community, sorry I Forgot about your £8k win and you beat a quality feild, welldone and I am off to sleep

I declare poker the winner here.

P.S. I only want WSOP multiple bracelet winners on my table.

I do agree.

The standard of both Live tournaments and Cash games is a lot worse than the standard of online. I really need to get out more and start playing live!

Trouble is, i live quite far away from any decent sized cash games, so i just stay lazy and play online

If I'm playing a £5 rebuy, I fancy that table.