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by "it" I mean everything, humans, the world, the universe, and beyond"

Discuss

Edgar Allen Poe says from a single particle

Read "A short History of Nearly Everything" by Bill Bryson to find out, then "DNA" by James Watson. The second plug I've given to both today. Right, though.

thats a mammoth question on 'Earth Day'. there are many theories and i think i like the evolution one the best:) but who knows, we may have have come from space??  we may also not actually be here. it could be a figment of your imagination, like a dream. you ever seen the matrix??

Weather you believe that God created everything, or you believe in The Big Bang theory, the same question is posed :

Where did God/the gasses come from?

The human mind , I do not think, can cope with there being no beginning and no end.

I know where some gasses come from, and why Mrs Red says "Oh God!"

It's because of the gasses you understand, not because.... Oh never mind.


     ;marks;

You worry me sometimes sweetheart  ;carlocitrone;

I struggle with the question Red or Brown sauce and u ask me this  :o

It's very straightforward. Initially there was nothing, no space, no time. Then, due to a fluctuation in a prequantum state, the Big Bang occurred. The fundamental particles 'Red Sauce' and 'Brown Sauce' coallesced then cooled, to form the world as we know it today, basically a very large coallescence of Marmite.

Imagine this was an american forum. The fights...

Grimsby

No. That was fish-fingers.

This has been debated vigorously for many years and was a source of constant confusion to me.

Red Dwarf provided the answer in series three though as it turns out Lister jump started the universe with the jump leads from Starbug.

"That's the great irony. Lister, the ultimate atheist, turns out to be God!"

its easy both sauces are best it depends what your putting them on

God created the universe last Tuesday. He created our minds with the necessary memories so that we don't realise this.

It also means he spent an awful lot of time filling up the Two Word Story thread with posts.

i heard that there was this "BIGBANG" or something :)



 4h  Kh Nutzzz

Bollocks do you know what i just spent 3 quarters of an hour writing a long reply to this but i wasnt happy that it made complete sense so instead have linked the horizon programme i was trying to explain. This is how i believe our universe was born anyway.

Have done a lot of reading up on this since watching this programme and it is such an interesting subject!!!

http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=4183875433858020781&q=bbc+horizon

Slightly annoying as it has spanish subtitles on the bottom bt still worth it.

I am a believer in God. I cannot believe in the theory of evolution, which has more holes in it than the wifes collander in the kitchen. So does the bible BTW but that is fact; like it or not it was a book that was created at the time by first hand accounts. Science shmyence...

If evolution is correct, where are the missing links. There is no steady progression, why do the animals we come from die out, but the ones that they came from are still around. We are seeing evolution but only as a fine tuning of all species as we adapt to different surroundings.

Physicists believe that you cannot get nothing from nothing, and this is THE fundamental rule of physics. So how can we have a bang and we have the beauty that surrounds us on a daily basis.

The bible on the other hand is a book that was created by people of the time, and written 1st hand by various people who witnessed events. And in 2000 years time people will be doubting books that are written today.

To believe in God requires a leap of faith. To believe in something that has been written about on true events albeit 2000 years old, but heyho. How many times have scientists said things and been proved totally wrong in the past.

I think you can believe what you want, but you should never force your beliefs on other people, or treat them any less for having different beliefs.

All of this beauty that surrounds us cannot of happened by accident.

Flyingpig, at first I was just going to put "oh dear" but decided that was disrespectful and your hionest post deserved an honest response

like it or not it was a book that was created at the time by first hand accounts.
No it wasn't, it's was put to gether and edited for effect over hundreds of years

If evolution is correct, where are the missing links. There is no steady progression
who said there has to be a steady progression?

why do the animals we come from die out, but the ones that they came from are still around.
evolution is largely caused by competition for limited resources (amongst other factors) Species vary to a greater or lesser degree depending on those factors. There is no species that has remained 'unevolved' for the last couple of million years, they've just changed to different degrees.

We are seeing evolution but only as a fine tuning of all species as we adapt to different surroundings.
we aren't seeing evoltion, we're seeing that evolution has happened. it's always fine tuning, that's why it takes so long.

Physicists believe that you cannot get nothing from nothing, and this is THE fundamental rule of physics.
yes it's fundamental to Newtonian physics but it's more complicated than that and it makes my head spin when it's explained to me. I'm not even close to qualified enough to explain the theories but they are there.

So how can we have a bang and we have the beauty that surrounds us on a daily basis
because it's evolved over the last 4,000,000,000 years and it's very very complicated

The bible on the other hand is a book that was created by people of the time, and written 1st hand by various people who witnessed events.
no it wasn't. I refer to my previous comment.

And in 2000 years time people will be doubting books that are written today.
absolutely, that's science. it's not dogmatic like religion. they will certainly be disproving everything most of what we believe in science today in much less than 2000 years but they won't be arguing against evolution. with any luck, in 2000 years they'll have dropped the whole god thing altogether.

To believe in God requires a leap of faith. To believe in something that has been written about on true events albeit 2000 years old, but heyho. How many times have scientists said things and been proved totally wrong in the past.
again, Science v Dogma. Scientific testing of hypothesis. they come up with a theory and then set about trying very hard to disprove it.


I think you can believe what you want, but you should never force your beliefs on other people, or treat them any less for having different beliefs.
couldnt agree more and I defend your right to believe what ever you like. trouble is, so much is done in the name of religion that is distasteful. Muslims, Christians and Jews appear to believe in the same god, but disagree on the rules and the authority figures over the last 3000 years. The burden is on their god to clear up the grey areas.

All of this beauty that surrounds us cannot of happened by accident.
why not?

Good post Adam.

The bible may have changed somewhat over 2000 years, but it hasn't changed a great deal, the fundamentals are there. What was said in the Da Vinci code about it being re-written by the Pope many years ago was tosh.

As with all religions, some zealots believe there is no other religion. If we could all agree that there is a grand architect of the universe it would be a good start, call him God, Buddha or Allah.

My own personal view is that the big bang theory is nonsense. As many others think religion is nonsense.

Why do the people who are not religious start praying to god when they are in desparate times of need. Deep down inside, most people believe in a higher order.

Not sure why your belief in God negates the possibility of the big bang theory being true?  Or why evolution isn't compatible with God?

Hmmm, I didnt mean to start a debate on Religion, but more that whatever your beliefs, the "initial" elements, be it God, or Gasses ; they must have come from somehwere, do you see the debate now?

It seemed that FlyingPig was saying that the two were mutually exclusive.


As for the 'origin' of the universe - I'm not sure.  It one of those things that goes beyond normal comprehension of things.  Some series of constant exanding and contraction seems to make the most sense to me, without an initial 'start point.

But thats just it, in our human mind there HAS to be a start point - but even if there was, that means that before the start point, there was nothing?!

Can you tell I love this topic - sad git that I am lol

I think a person can easily believe in God and Evolution at the same time. The two things needn't be mutally exclusive.

Tribeca was bought by Playtech and shortly after it disappeared, never to resurface. Perhaps someone will buy the universe and then pull the plug.

I don't think there is a start point - that suggests a linear track of time with a 'start-point', which would have to exist within another 'universe', and so you then have to determine when that started. 

Something cannot be created from nothing - even if you think there's a great being who created the universe.  Where did he/she come from, and what was there before them?

I can see that someone can believe in both, I just don't see why some believe they are mutually exclusive.

But I don't believe in God either.

a phycisist once explained to me how it could - it made my head hurt

but it's not really debatable. they've proved it beyond doubt.everything is moving away from everything else at a uniform speed from a central point. they know when it happened and where.

also, if anyone thinks we're the pinnacle of some divine master plan, you need some perspective on how small we are.

somewhere there's a version of this without the shit sound track but I cant find it right now.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fCwVoOKxj1k

hmmm on the balance of probabilities I think the Big Bang theory seems more likely than other theories, but they haven't and can't prove it. All they have is evidence which supports the theory.

It doesn't need to be a 'start' either.  If the universe goes through cycles of expansion and contraction, each expansion cycle could be a 'big bang'.

Energy can be transferred and converted into matter or into a different form of energy, but it can't be created.  I'd be interested to hear the argument otherwise.

God as it is described in the bible is a logical impossibility. In the bible God is omnipotent which means he can see the future, if he sees the future then it is impossible for him to have given us free-will. Omnipresence and free-will are polar opposites. I used to be militantly anti-religious but i've chilled in my older years and realised that on an individual level you can't judge people on what they believe, whether it be god, buddha, xenu, science,  pan-galactic space hamsters, whatever you need to get by(okay except xenu, man scientologists get on my thrupenny bits). My real grudge is with organised religion which along with government, nationalism and money are simply system put in place by the few to control the many.

PS I've been trying to post this for about 1-2 hours which is why it's slightly off track it should have appeared on page 2 somewhere , anyone else having problems with blonde at the mo?

No really it nearly drove me over the edge, the only thing I can remember is the word quantum and Newtonian {something or over} - not working?
 
I only ever talked to her in the first place because she was hot    a really nice person generally.

This is sort of along the same lines - very cool to play with or just leave running for an hour or so which gives you the best idea of the scale of things.

http://www.nikon.co.jp/main/eng/feelnikon/discovery/universcale/index_f.htm (http://www.nikon.co.jp/main/eng/feelnikon/discovery/universcale/index_f.htm)

I think I know what you are talking about, but it's concerned with virtual transition states, Hawkin radiation, Heisenberg's uncertainty principle, etc.  The final state brings back the equilibrium in terms of energy conservation.

watch my pissing video if you want to know about the big bang!!!!!

Gees!!!

If human beings evolved from lower species then how come there are still welsh people.

As for the Big Bang, you can still see the effects of it all around us.

Like when you blow up a brown paper bag and clap your hands

They cannot prove a big bang. They can guess and get equations to satisfy their enquiries, but this is not proof. Scientist are continually getting things wrong.

Early science - the world is flat. The atom is the smallest particle. Radioactive toothpaste is good for you.

I agree with Kinboshi that you can believe in all 3 in essence. The great architect of the universe created the big bang, which is the universe as we know it, then he created man (and poker), and since then we have been fine tuned into what we are today. So there you go Paul - Its sorted. Thats were and how it began, up yours Hawking......

I think scientists will never be able to fully understand; never mind explain all the intriquices of life. The quarks, atoms, particles & DNA will never be understood.

As for where god came from; well this is the unseen force which binds everything together and is just there. Plain and simply it is just there.

Bose-Einstein condensation - now that's an amazing thing - and unless there is other intelligent life in the universe (another thread needed me thinks), then the coldest temperature in the universe is on earth.

Amazing.

Is -273 the coldest temp possible....

Well, 0 K is the coldest possible temperature - as it's absolute zero, where all motion stops, and an absence of any motion is an absence of temperature.

It's -273.something in celsius, can't remember what exactly.

The church also said the sun revolved around the earth and punished people who thought different.
Scientists discovered quarks, atoms and particles and DNA, the fact that you know about these things is thanks to scientists and not the bible, how can you say they will never be understood?

I believe that the supposed Christian closed mindedness is largely a modern day myth. Historians tell us that the Church was at the forefront of intellectual and scientific discovery for centuries, but it is popular to forget this and create a science vs religion stand off that we can all get our heads round nicely.

The church can not be reasonably considered as one singular entity (or science and scientists for that matter) and saying that one says this or one says that is not too accurate. People on the fringes of any group are prone to making bizarre claims.

"The view that the sun stands motionless at the center of the universe is foolish, philosophically false, utterly heretical, because contrary to Holy Scripture. The view that the earth is not the center of the universe and even has a daily rotation is philosophically false, and at least an erroneous belief."

-- Holy Office, Roman Catholic Church, ridiculing the scientific analysis that the Earth orbited the Sun in edict of March 5, 1616

Seemed pretty accurate when denouncing Galileo

"The Church" in this case was the Roman Catholic Church but it's beliefs were accepted by other denomitations of Christianity at the time

I don't know where it all began or where it's all going.

I do think that an absolutist belief in Darwinian evolution theories takes a leap of faith just as signficant as belief in God.

I believe things evolve, fish may become faster fish, monkeys may become more erudite monkeys, man becomes a more efficient killing machine. But it's a bitova a leap o' faith to think a fish would become a giraffe if there were a great big wet world that dried out for a zillion billion years and became a dry world with tall trees.

If the only trees were redwoods then a billion years on I guess the giraffe would grow wings or summat, - gimme a break.

If only Sofa King were here to draw a flying giraffafishotit

'The Big Bang can't be proved, so I don't believe it.'

'God did it.'

*shakes head and mutters*

I have actually been within ten feet of (what was at the time) the coldest place in the universe - a smallish room in the Physics Dept at Lancaster University.

'This is the coldest place in the universe' said the professor. Seeing as I'd just walked in from outside, with the January wind whipping in from the Irish Sea, I didn't doubt him.

It is also a myth that people thought the world was flat. Even the chinese way back when knew that the world was round or spherical. Even people in europe believed it to be at least pear shaped and very soon after accepted it to be spherical in nature.
God maybe out there, it is not up to me to prove or disprove that but one thing i am sure of (call it my belief if you will), he didnt create the universe or us!

Good post.
But the evidence for trans-species evolution is overwhelming. 'Missing links' have been found. When the DNA, fossil, and ecological data from, for example, chimps and humans are cross-referenced, any suggestion that they did not evolve from a common anscestor is just absurd. 'Theory' like 'the theory of evolution' is often assumed to mean 'some kind of guess scientists make in the absence of evidence', but in science in fact it means the opposite, ie the best conclusion that can be reached given the evidence available. Cf 'Theory of Gravity, the Big Bang, Evolution'.
Scientists collectively, in my opinion, are not trying to see what science says about the world, they are trying to say what can be said about the world, full stop (just like religions do), it's just that they've accepted that the only decent conclusions worth accepting are those based on falsifiable theories developed through a systematic and repeatable observation of reality.
Forgive me if this sounds rude, but I really mean it when I say it: religion is science for the lazy. If someone really looks at what science has established over the last 300 years, basic myths such as Creationism, and in my opinion, Christianity, are just total nonsense. I wish someone had pointed that out more clearly to me when I was a Christian, and had been less worried about 'hurting my feelings'.

That's actually the second coldest.  The coldest place ever recorded was in my house when I told the wife I was playing poker on our anniversary...

(http://www.judoforum.com/style_emoticons/default/cold.gif)