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Author Topic: NP : Where did it all begin?  (Read 6534 times)
4KingNutz
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« Reply #15 on: April 22, 2007, 01:58:46 PM »

i heard that there was this "BIGBANG" or something Smiley



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KingPoker
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« Reply #16 on: April 22, 2007, 02:19:02 PM »

Bollocks do you know what i just spent 3 quarters of an hour writing a long reply to this but i wasnt happy that it made complete sense so instead have linked the horizon programme i was trying to explain. This is how i believe our universe was born anyway.

Have done a lot of reading up on this since watching this programme and it is such an interesting subject!!!

http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=4183875433858020781&q=bbc+horizon

Slightly annoying as it has spanish subtitles on the bottom bt still worth it.
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FlyingPig
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« Reply #17 on: April 22, 2007, 02:43:33 PM »

I am a believer in God. I cannot believe in the theory of evolution, which has more holes in it than the wifes collander in the kitchen. So does the bible BTW but that is fact; like it or not it was a book that was created at the time by first hand accounts. Science shmyence...

If evolution is correct, where are the missing links. There is no steady progression, why do the animals we come from die out, but the ones that they came from are still around. We are seeing evolution but only as a fine tuning of all species as we adapt to different surroundings.

Physicists believe that you cannot get nothing from nothing, and this is THE fundamental rule of physics. So how can we have a bang and we have the beauty that surrounds us on a daily basis.

The bible on the other hand is a book that was created by people of the time, and written 1st hand by various people who witnessed events. And in 2000 years time people will be doubting books that are written today.

To believe in God requires a leap of faith. To believe in something that has been written about on true events albeit 2000 years old, but heyho. How many times have scientists said things and been proved totally wrong in the past.

I think you can believe what you want, but you should never force your beliefs on other people, or treat them any less for having different beliefs.

All of this beauty that surrounds us cannot of happened by accident.
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AdamM
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« Reply #18 on: April 22, 2007, 03:52:48 PM »

Flyingpig, at first I was just going to put "oh dear" but decided that was disrespectful and your hionest post deserved an honest response

like it or not it was a book that was created at the time by first hand accounts.
No it wasn't, it's was put to gether and edited for effect over hundreds of years

If evolution is correct, where are the missing links. There is no steady progression
who said there has to be a steady progression?

why do the animals we come from die out, but the ones that they came from are still around.
evolution is largely caused by competition for limited resources (amongst other factors) Species vary to a greater or lesser degree depending on those factors. There is no species that has remained 'unevolved' for the last couple of million years, they've just changed to different degrees.

We are seeing evolution but only as a fine tuning of all species as we adapt to different surroundings.
we aren't seeing evoltion, we're seeing that evolution has happened. it's always fine tuning, that's why it takes so long.

Physicists believe that you cannot get nothing from nothing, and this is THE fundamental rule of physics.
yes it's fundamental to Newtonian physics but it's more complicated than that and it makes my head spin when it's explained to me. I'm not even close to qualified enough to explain the theories but they are there.

So how can we have a bang and we have the beauty that surrounds us on a daily basis
because it's evolved over the last 4,000,000,000 years and it's very very complicated

The bible on the other hand is a book that was created by people of the time, and written 1st hand by various people who witnessed events.
no it wasn't. I refer to my previous comment.

And in 2000 years time people will be doubting books that are written today.
absolutely, that's science. it's not dogmatic like religion. they will certainly be disproving everything most of what we believe in science today in much less than 2000 years but they won't be arguing against evolution. with any luck, in 2000 years they'll have dropped the whole god thing altogether.

To believe in God requires a leap of faith. To believe in something that has been written about on true events albeit 2000 years old, but heyho. How many times have scientists said things and been proved totally wrong in the past.
again, Science v Dogma. Scientific testing of hypothesis. they come up with a theory and then set about trying very hard to disprove it.


I think you can believe what you want, but you should never force your beliefs on other people, or treat them any less for having different beliefs.

couldnt agree more and I defend your right to believe what ever you like. trouble is, so much is done in the name of religion that is distasteful. Muslims, Christians and Jews appear to believe in the same god, but disagree on the rules and the authority figures over the last 3000 years. The burden is on their god to clear up the grey areas.

All of this beauty that surrounds us cannot of happened by accident.
why not?
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FlyingPig
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« Reply #19 on: April 22, 2007, 06:07:03 PM »

Good post Adam.

The bible may have changed somewhat over 2000 years, but it hasn't changed a great deal, the fundamentals are there. What was said in the Da Vinci code about it being re-written by the Pope many years ago was tosh.

As with all religions, some zealots believe there is no other religion. If we could all agree that there is a grand architect of the universe it would be a good start, call him God, Buddha or Allah.

My own personal view is that the big bang theory is nonsense. As many others think religion is nonsense.

Why do the people who are not religious start praying to god when they are in desparate times of need. Deep down inside, most people believe in a higher order.
« Last Edit: April 22, 2007, 06:31:27 PM by FlyingPig » Logged
kinboshi
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« Reply #20 on: April 22, 2007, 06:24:08 PM »

Good post Adam.

The bible may have changed somewhat over 200 years, but it hasn't changed a great deal, the fundamentals are there. What was said in the Da Vinci code about it being re-written by the Pope many years ago was tosh.

As with all religions, some zealots believe there is no other religion. If we could all agree that there is a grand architect of the universe it would be a good start, call him God, Buddha or Allah.

My own personal view is that the big bang theory is nonsense. As many others think religion is nonsense.

Why do the people who are not religious start praying to god when they are in desparate times of need. Deep down inside, most people believe in a higher order.

Not sure why your belief in God negates the possibility of the big bang theory being true?  Or why evolution isn't compatible with God?
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M3boy
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« Reply #21 on: April 22, 2007, 06:58:11 PM »

Hmmm, I didnt mean to start a debate on Religion, but more that whatever your beliefs, the "initial" elements, be it God, or Gasses ; they must have come from somehwere, do you see the debate now?
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« Reply #22 on: April 22, 2007, 07:04:09 PM »

Hmmm, I didnt mean to start a debate on Religion, but more that whatever your beliefs, the "initial" elements, be it God, or Gasses ; they must have come from somehwere, do you see the debate now?


It seemed that FlyingPig was saying that the two were mutually exclusive.


As for the 'origin' of the universe - I'm not sure.  It one of those things that goes beyond normal comprehension of things.  Some series of constant exanding and contraction seems to make the most sense to me, without an initial 'start point.
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« Reply #23 on: April 22, 2007, 07:13:51 PM »

But thats just it, in our human mind there HAS to be a start point - but even if there was, that means that before the start point, there was nothing?!

Can you tell I love this topic - sad git that I am lol
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thetank
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« Reply #24 on: April 22, 2007, 07:15:51 PM »

I think a person can easily believe in God and Evolution at the same time. The two things needn't be mutally exclusive.
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« Reply #25 on: April 22, 2007, 07:23:00 PM »

Tribeca was bought by Playtech and shortly after it disappeared, never to resurface. Perhaps someone will buy the universe and then pull the plug.
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kinboshi
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« Reply #26 on: April 22, 2007, 07:27:42 PM »

But thats just it, in our human mind there HAS to be a start point - but even if there was, that means that before the start point, there was nothing?!

Can you tell I love this topic - sad git that I am lol

I don't think there is a start point - that suggests a linear track of time with a 'start-point', which would have to exist within another 'universe', and so you then have to determine when that started. 

Something cannot be created from nothing - even if you think there's a great being who created the universe.  Where did he/she come from, and what was there before them?

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« Reply #27 on: April 22, 2007, 07:29:45 PM »

I think a person can easily believe in God and Evolution at the same time. The two things needn't be mutally exclusive.

I can see that someone can believe in both, I just don't see why some believe they are mutually exclusive.

But I don't believe in God either.
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Jon MW
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« Reply #28 on: April 22, 2007, 07:32:40 PM »

...
Something cannot be created from nothing  ...


a phycisist once explained to me how it could - it made my head hurt
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« Reply #29 on: April 22, 2007, 07:56:37 PM »


My own personal view is that the big bang theory is nonsense. As many others think religion is nonsense.



but it's not really debatable. they've proved it beyond doubt.everything is moving away from everything else at a uniform speed from a central point. they know when it happened and where.

also, if anyone thinks we're the pinnacle of some divine master plan, you need some perspective on how small we are.

somewhere there's a version of this without the shit sound track but I cant find it right now.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fCwVoOKxj1k
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