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Predictions and comments here

Even from Scots  :D

0-0 Nailed on.

yep 0-0 it shall be..Crouch to get injured first.

lol - I've just clicked on here after putting a bet on a 0-0 score line.

3-0.

How annoyed on a scale of 1-10 will I get by Ian Wright's punditry?

Average in 12 appearances so far: 11 out of 10

I would ban him, hopeless, one-eyed, incompetent. At punditry

:goodpost: ;iagree;

Don't worry..Alan Hansen will be there as well. I don't even notice Ian Wright when Alan "I'm Scottish really" Hansen is there.

Quite funny by the way that Alan Hansen is now flogging Walkers 12 pack crisps for Morrison's.

Can't say I'm particularly looking forward to the game.  England have become one of the most boring teams to watch in recent times.  I expect we will win, but it won't be a big win, probably 1-0, goal halfway through the second half.

Remember Poland & Jan Tomaszewski ... Half of me wants England to cruise tonight, but half wants us to go out so maybe we can get rid of the shower of shit that runs English football and the manager.

2-1 Engerland.
Wrighty is a legend, the only one to show some passion.
All the rest are just dull, we should ban all jocks from England games they're too bitter, it's in their genes :D

LOL he has a blondepedia entry .... wow never knew that.

I fancy Croatia.  1-0 or 2-1.  I also predict Ian Wright will say, "The fing about it is" over 6.5 times.

i actually fancy we might win quite well which means we can't get rid of mclaren and we will all get our usual outrageous optimism building immediately.

3-0, 4-1. crouch to get 2.

So wrong.


So wright. ;D

And replace them with what?

As for the game i think it will be tight and we will win by the odd goal 1-0 or 2-1.

I don't mind Ian Wright he is supporting the national team and gets quite worked up about it, abit like myself. If i wasn't English i accept he may be quite annoying.

people in touch with the real world would be a start, its high time football was wrenched from the hands of the prawn sandwich brigade and handed back to the people.

As for Wrighty, I love it when he gets passionate and tells it how it is, makes a refreshing change from people trying to be polittically correct and telling the viewing public a crock of shit just because its the right thing to say ... at least Wrighty gives it straight.. if we play crap, he says we were crap... he doesnt make excuses and try to pass it off any other way.

indeed..but this is the problem everywhere..even in Holland :(

England 2-0 down at half time come back to draw 2-2 in one of the most sensational games seen for years!!!!

The thing is, that's all he offers - he has no tactical insight. He can work well as an entertaining clown at half-time in a dull England game (as most of them are) but if there are actually interesting things to talk about he quickly becomes a pain in the neck. And if SWP scores then no one else gets a look-in.

ok only way i can see this working is england to lose to croatia with russia drawing to andorra

this will get england into 2008 without them winning and giving me 15 teams to follow next summer

You don't want much do you!

Thats like asking the 71st best team in the world to be beat the 13th best team in the world!

anythings possible

I loved the footage of him up on the gantry wrapped in an England flag a couple of years back, great stuff!!
Also the footage of Trevor Francis going apes**t in the studio when England scored, good to see these people actually acting like the rest of us

1-1 with england to go ahead then croatia to get something gammy at around 80minutes making it a horrible last 10. MARK MY WORDS.

Please, not another night like that. It was so painful.

1-0 and boring footie with scarey moments is my prediction.

"left turn to negative town"

Seriously?

Did I pretend to hear the booing during the Croatian anthem and then Motson claiming that the Croatians were happy with the respect being shown?

bugger 0-1

Oops....

joke

Oh Dear... !!! 

More Frank Carson than Scott...  rotflmfao

Jesus.. !! Like a knife through butter...

Beckham Beckham..  i can hear the cry from here !!

13 mins 0-2, slashing wrists soon.

Bye bye McClaren

so england really did hand a competitve debut to a goalkeeper in their most important game in 20 years ?

oops..

 ;pokergods;

Jesus AND Moses cant help this lot !!

speechless

Cant blame him i dont think.. Eng are just shit... They will come back, i might have to have a look at the prices here

they going to put him in goals ?

That name - McLaren.

It sounds awfully Scottish...

Agent McLaren will get a warm welcome when he returns to the Caledonian motherland.

Is the 12/1 McClaren to resign his post by midnight still available ?

However I do remember the Arsenal/Manure cup final of 1980ish  ;popcorn;

You can blame Macca for this, what's he doing putting Carson in goal

Oh, fair enough, Robinson was the other choice :D


They play rubbish, they don't play like they want to be there, most don't deserve to wear the England shirt.

They'll be fine...

COME ON ANDORRA !!!

missed both goals. u there bolt?

LOLOL

Standing under an umbrella is a disgrace for a start.It's hardly the greatest motivation.

It's saying "go out and give it your all,but im not gonna get wet watching"

What a ****

If he had any Scottish blood he wouldn't be seen dead managing a pub team holding a fecking brolly never mind the national side  :D

Now that i agree with..

Ive got to say, not that it makes any difference, but the pitch is an almighty cock up by somebody..

dont blame us for him. he is defo 100% english. i hope

LOL.

You'd have thought that with 3 weeks having passed, and all that rain, that the American football markings would have gone by now. That pitch is a disgrace.

andorra looks ur best hope, seriously

And I remember the days when the so called "football experts" were up in arms about England appointing a Foriegn coach/manager.

7-1 Eng now

2-1 Draw...

Fancy Eng & Draw at half time...

Love the commentary,  the special one would have made subs by now. lol

Still gonna win it....

i dont doubt england can score 2, its the back 4 and the keeper that will prob concede again

cant wait for wrighty's half time analysis

home nations summer tourny?

Probably, i can then see my Wales beat Eng as well...

Eng will win this, much the better side.. Need a 2nd Striker on

think englands best hope is abandoned match due to waterlogged pitch!!!

1-0.

Sandy

1-0 Russia

beckham on at half time, sent off by 75? What price?

oooo I like that one...

Can't see England scoring at this rate.  Missing half a team doesn't help.

Bit of a tactical error from the home support to boo the Croatian national anthem and noise them up, after they downed tools vs Macedonia at the weekend.

russia just missed pen

come on andorra

Funniest moment of the night - spotting the two 'Croatia' fans in the crowd wearing Celtic shirts. :)

Why do England keep launching the ball in the air when they get anywhere near the Croatian area?  When Croatia attack, they keep the ball on the ground and pass it.  England don't seem capable of doing it.

Pathetic.

I think its Croatian Dave & Zagreb Bandit :o

Disgraceful...of course Mclaren will get most abuse, but this "golden generation" have been a massive let down all the way from last years world cup...overpaid, no passion, manager will get sacked...none of the players will... ;grr;

England 2-0 down at half time come back to draw 2-2 in one of the most sensational games seen for years!!!!


I hope you are right Pelham

LMFAO

(http://i.imdb.com/Photos/Mptv/1206/0534_0123.jpg)

We may have a new record holder for Softest Penalty Award Ever.

Game On

shocker ref

moronic defender

lol @ Motson "that puts England back in the box seat"... eh?

That was a terrible decision, never a penalty in a month of sundays!

What a Save...

Half time message from McLaren to team - go out and dive for your country.

Half time message from UEFA to match officials - remember how much the English pay for TV rights to the finals.

Never a Penalty

standardments  ;sark;

CROUCHIGOL!!!

bugger

nice

great goal

still time for a goal for andorra and croatia

Said to Darren just b4 the break Crouch to score..

Cracking goal...........Beckhams class to save England again?

Geo

absolute class take and finish

Beckham may not be 100% match fit but he plays for England, no other agenda, you couldn't ask for more commitment from him. 

Top class

And raffa never plays him...

very good cross imo but the take and finish was special though no doubt beckham will get all the plaudits

wallpapering over the cracks.........

the rest of europe praying to get england in their euro group

;iagree;

And you can't ask any more of a player.

scrape thru then sack mclaren lol if only

The chest control was fantastic. Must've been practising with Abi.

that england defence has one more special moment i feel

I was just wondering if Phil Neville was on the bench.

i just heard on the radio kevin keegan saying "theres only one team going to win this now, and thats england"

Kiss of death

GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOAL

sigh

Told ya so

Unbelievable

What does the boss man think?

come on andorra

obviously cheap wallpaper paste..........

If Russia blow it now, Hiddink will be getting invited to The Kremlin for one of their special cocktails.

What I will say is, Croatia are a far better team than I thought...

feel sorry for the england fans

come on andorra

Still time, if you get the draw now, even I'll have to admit you deserve it.

Make your mind up Ironside!  You said bugger Crouch scored, and now you want Andorra to score?

Never. England have been poor.

i dont want england to win but i want them at the finals so we have someone to support there 15 teams

so only way for it to happen is for andorra to draw or win

What odds do you think I would get on Steve McLaren being named Scottish Sports Personality of the Year?

Well nobody can say Croatia came for a draw !!   rotflmfao


 :redcard:

I feel an internet campaign coming on...

russia down to 10 men

come on andorra

fkin Steve Mclaren ... we would have been better off with Malcolm Mclaren FFS

Pfft, you have to take your hats off to them.

England had the much tougher group, but still managed to win almost as many points as Scotland.
If I was English, I'd be so so proud.

straight down the tunnel w@nk@r!

hes got to go

come on andorra


i need a goal

And the players.....golden generation was the "failed generation" trouble is not much coming to replace this sorry lot....

for once though it was an entertaining game involving england :D

Thought that Crouch, Lampard and Beckham played OK.  No one else. 

+ they get the summer off now...nice 5 star holiday while we miss them in euro 2008, I start to think the fans care more than some of the players  ;grr;

this is hilarious

i think a number of players gave there all tonight but i just think the system was wrong.

our defence is depleted. lescott isnt international class, campbell is past it and the 2 full backs were shite.

where was gareth barry?

BOLT!
roflmao

cant agree beckham boshi.

england needed more than one cross

On the bright side we're spared a summer of overhype in the press.  No 'kiss Rooney's metatarsal' centre pages in the Sun, no Garth Crooks exclusives from the England camp ('hot from the press guys, they had pasta') and no penalty shootouts.

Hallelujah!

Well played Croatia, Good game.
 ;applause;

for all the scots out there please dont rub it in after all our english cousins were on the most part civil to us

next summer we call all take the piss out of each other when we play the real EURO08 in scotland where it should of been in the first place

Croatia deserved it, technically miles ahead of England

McClaren can go now but until we match the better sides for technique and tactics we don't deserve anything

Crouch maybe

Beckham one cross

Lampard? huh?

Gerrard had an awful awful game but he was not alone

A new manager will still inherit this sorry lot.....ugh!

Yeah Lampard....penalty that was it!

He was on for a half - and played well.  Richards was shocking behind him.  For a lot of the half, especially after it went 2-2, Beckham was covering for Richards who was completely AWOL.  I think Richards is believing the hype that has surrounded him.

I'm the biggest critic of Lumplard, but he was willing to try and play the ball on the floor, put in the effort, and the problem was the rest of the team around him and Crouch (and Beckham when he was on).  Gerrard was dire.  He's a far better player than that.

thought lampard worked hard along with gerrard, most of the time they were both doing the job barry should have been doing, there lies the main fault in midfield.
and you got to admire lampards balls for the penalty and took it well.

although i agree we needed beckham on why did he take our most dangerous first half player off in wright phillips?

then with 10 mins to go when we need a match winner he takes joe cole off, why not take a defender off?

crouch was superb

i agree beckham played well with what he was given

but he didnt get much of the ball

the english back 5 was terrible

i am a fan of richards and bridge but after this performance i say bring back nevellie and cole

Nail on head.  Croatia were the far better side and technically better in every department.  Their ball retention was superb and they could have won by more.  Although had England not taken their foot off the pedal and backed off when they equalised the outcome could have been different.

good point boshi beckham wasnt allowed to play the role he was sent on to do mainly due to the fact that richards believes hes a law untoo himself

Leaving aside debates about players..the tactics ..Ughhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

most teams are.

Fat Frank... !!!

Thats where Eng and Gerrards problem is, I seriously dont think they can play together.. I must have watched a different game to everyone else, because I though Gerrard run his bolloxs off tonight, he was here there and everywhere, still does not mean he played great, but its him of Frank for me, Gerrard plays on the right..

Crouch best player on the field tonight, he will probably need a rest for Saturday though !!!  ;frustrated;

Crouch was the only one that had a half decent game, the rest were poor.
 
Yep, tactics sucked as per usual.  The man has to go and we need someone that knows what they are doing and that can install some pride into the players.

bottom line for me! maclaren must go

and someone at wembley will be shot for the state of that pitch!

Is Steven Gerrard beyond criticism from the media?

He was a disgrace in Russia and he was worse tonight.

Surely the most over-rated player in England.

At least he was there though,unlike his pal 'deserter' Carragher.

TBH, He should get more criticism than most, he was our bloody captain tonight, certainly didn't act like it

drainage is v poor

it rained constantly for the NFL game 3 weeks ago, and then for 72 hours before the match

lovely stadium but next time remember one important detail...the pitch drainage!!

yeah the pitch was looking the worse from wear after the NFL game last month

surely they had time to clean it up and repare it

usual scouse shit!

think you will find for a fat guy he ran further than any other player tonight!


gerrard and lampard both worked there socks off and played there hearts out.

cant nobdy else see that barry was the week link in midfield?

Barry wasn't so much the weak link but 3 of them in the middle gave no one who could get beyond Crouch through the middle

Tactics

correct me if im wrong but hasnt wembley got a roof?

whose this barry chap

i didnt see him

sure you werent listening to barry manilow

We want bolt, we want bolt.

why dont we scots just for once act the bigger men

which for unknown reasons stays open when it rains

the high stands also make it difficult

as does the English weather

all completely unforseeable and should have at no stage been factored into the planning process

what do we want ?
BOLT
when do we want him?
NOW

I never said Frank played shit or never run his bolloxs off either, I actually agree with you, i just pointed out Gerrard as he seemed to be getting it all.. I think they can't play together, and that Gerrard is probably better on the right if frank is playing.. The 2 best midfielders in the country..

Read the post, Scouse Shit a bit unfair !!!

AND EVERYONE behaves please, or else my pet chinchilla gets it

Agreed, and what makes it worse is that he's easily the best English player.


For England, not in England.  Watch him week in, week out for Liverpool.  He's world class. 


Yeah, Carragher sitting on the bench would have made a huge difference.  Like it did in the early games in the group when he should have played but was left on the bench only to see Brown or some other sub-standard player take the place he should have had.

Be careful what you wish for.

starting your post Fat Frank!!!!! a bit unfair imo to

funny thing is boshi carragher would have played tonight. and he would of done a so much better job than the 2 centre backs who played tonight like they had never met each other before

No way is Gerrard world class. To be in that bracket surely you need more strings to your bow than a few hopeful 60 yard balls?

Don't you think Carragher would have played in front of both centre backs tonight Kin? Its part of the game waiting for your oppurtunity and taking it when it comes along.

People can say what they like about Beckham but he didn't quit when he was dropped.
He's also set up more England goals in the past 12 months than SWP will in his career.

England got what they deserved tonight.

Why play 4-5-1 or 4-3-3 as McClaren called it?   How often do they play that system?  Terrible decision to play for a draw
Why change the goalkeeper?  Put a young keeper into the biggest game for 2 years for England, and heap loads of pressure onto him in terrible goalkeeping conditions.
The worst player on the pitch for England was Wayne Bridge.   Dont think he did one thing right all night.   The rest of them were not much better, with the honourable exception of Peter Crouch.  The halftime subs Beckham and Defoe were not too bad.
Full credit to Croatia. They have a very good record since the became a seperate country from Yugoslavia.  3rd in World Cup 98 if i remember correctly.  England underestimated them in Croatia, and underestimated them tonight. They came to play and make a name for themselves tonight.
That pitch was an absolute disgrace for a so-called top class football team to play a home international.  Why dont they close the roof???    How come the markings from the NFL game about 3 weeks ago were still there?? Has the groundsman gone on strike?
McClaren will be asked to leave by the FA in the next couple of days.

Most dramatic game of football i've seen in a long time. Even better that the Scotland game on Saturday.

id bring back hoddle, best england manager

What was Venables doing in the royal box after we went 2 down?


anyone else find that strange?


How many managers do you know that when 2-0 down stand under an umbrella whilst watching?

anyone else find that strange?

thats fair enough.. truce ..   :cheers:

he should have been standing in the rain getting wet like his players. he would have gain more respect doing it.

truce accepted.  :cheers:


scousers love gerrard chelsea fans love lampard. both good players in there own right.

just annoys me that lampard seems to be the easy way out when it comes to finding fault.

yes he didnt have his most effective game tonight but had the balls to stick the penalty away and worked his nuts off as gerrard did also.

Wow what a mess, firstly congrats to Croatia came to play, looked good and maybe a good outside bet for the Euros.

Firstly McClaren has to go,simply put no England manager will ever survive not qualifying for a major championship. I was a bit on the fence over McClaren but tonight we were tactically inept and he appears to have failed to motivate the players for a massive match which we were lucky to get in the first place.

Tactics were a shambles playing 1 up was awful as we kept lumping it to Crouch who won most of the balls but had no one to flick/lay it off to a fellow player. Substitutions should have been made to rectify this in the first half, not at half time costing us 15 minutes playing an awful system.

The players have to take responsibility as well, they all play top flight football (apart from Beckham who did until June) and have underperformed massively irrespective of the manager. The only player who can be happy with his performance is Crouch end of.

Oh well at least we now have the opportunity to start again and have a look at ourselves, which we haven't done in recent years with typical semi-glorious failures in major tournaments. My pick for new manager would be Martin O'Neill who i feel will get the players playing for him.

David Beckham, 22 'You know's' in the 1 interview lol

Like I said.  Watch him play week in, week out.


4 years.  4 years of sitting on the bench, travelling all over the world, sitting on the bench, keeping him away from his family.  I don't think he's disappointed that he wasn't involved in that shite tonight.


You could argue Beckham did quit England when he went to play in America. 

FA Won't pick O'Neill

Anything but another "yes" man

I hope they go Scolari/Hiddink/Lippi etc

Disagree.  Lampard has been shocking for England on many occasions.  But tonight he played far better than Gerrard - who was woeful (as he was against Russia).  Not interested in the game, and it was his fault the third goal was scored.  He could have easily stopped the shot. 

Only Bridge and Richards disappointed more than Gerrard tonight.

mclaren made it clear beckham wouldnt play again for england so beckahm didnt quit he went on got on with his life

england called him back after a year out and he jumped at the chance but it was too late to do anything about america

over rated, never heard anyone ever say that about steven gerrard for good reasons , disgrace to england, anyone who runs there heart out for england should never be called a disgrace, his fault if you can call it a fault is passion, beckham is the same, in fact all great players have it, if the team is not playing well they try to compensate on there own, trying to force things to happen,gerrard overhit a few balls, thats all, i think most of englands players played  poor tonight and i am sick myself, but credit where its due, everyone of them to the man ran there hearts out tonight, weather its the manager or the team they where just not good enough,

...and McClaren and Sven didn't make it clear that Carragher wasn't going to be playing for England over the past 4 years?  Like you said about Beckham, Carragher didn't quit or leave the team in the lurch.  He merely got on with his life.

lampards also been superb for england on many occassions!

check the record books i think you will find he was voted englands player of the year 2 years running not so long ago!

such short memories

Paul Scholes? Premature quitter?

carragher said "I AIN'T AVAILABLE" beckaham never did

Eh?  I've said that Lampard played OK tonight (one of the few).  I was criticising Gerrard's play for England tonight (and against Russia) when accusations were laid that he's the most over-rated player in England. 

Gerrard is absolutely world class.  Anyone who disagrees doesn't watch him play, or doesn't understand football.

tell you one thing if john terry had of played tonight england wouldnt have been allowed to lose ! ;nemesis;

Ledley King is a 50 "yer knows" per minute man.

imo gerrard and lampard are world class and yes england has not seen enough of them being world class for whatever reason.

barry was the weak link tonight gerrard run his self into the ground trying to cover him

The way he played in some games (not tonight), he should have.  McClaren stuck with Beckham in the team when he was injured or was simply not good enough.  We can remember the games when he carried England on his own (the game against Greece being one).  But for the past few years, he's been a passenger. 

Beckham never said that he wasn't available because he was likely to be selected.  Carragher consistently sat on the bench, travelled all over with the squad, only to see his place taken by a player not fit to lace his boots.

IMO Gerrard and Lampard have a lot to answer to with regards to England failing to qualify.

which one terry,ferdinand or king?

Didn't see that myself.  I've seen Gerrard run himself across every blade of grass for 90 minutes.  Tonight he was WAY off his imperious best.  On countless occasions I turned to Michelle and mentioned that Gerrard was jogging back rather than sprinting as he usually does.  He could and should have stopped the third goal by being in a position to stop the shot. 

Has he decided that England aren't good enough to win anything, and so he's not going to run himself into the ground or risk injury when he's in an England shirt?  It sure looked like it.

I agree with this, amongst many other failings in the team

Brown, for one.  King on several occasions, one in particular when king wasn't fit. 

Absolutely.  I don't think anyone can deny that although they've both had games for England when they've made the difference, they do it far more frequently for their club sides.  When a player who is that important and instrumental every week for their club can't perform for their country, questions have to be asked.  Both to the players and to the coach.

Carragher will never be fit to lace Ledley Kings boots - DUCY?

An Rio is Englands best defender by a country mile.

Rio and Terry when fit and if King is fit he is the 3rd best (which is arguable)

think your being other critical of him boshi though as you say u see him weak in weak out.

maybe it was bourne out of frustration looking round to see where barry was and seeing him out of position again.

barry was either to far forward or had dropped into the back four. the holding role is a fairly basic position to play but does require concentration and awareness. tonight barry had neither!

I think Ruddock said it best when he said

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=80niZnYCB04

rotflmfao - whatever.


rotflmfao


rotflmfao

Gerrard was shocking in the second half when Barry wasn't playing.  First half, what you're saying might carry weight.  But that doesn't account for his second half performance.  Which like I said, was only under-shadowed (if that was a word) by Richards and Bridge.

rio ferdinand is no way englands best defender imo.

and also i think king has alot to provre, living off overhype at a young age much like richards.

carragher a better replacement for terry than the rest of them imo

Agreed.  Terry is easily the first choice, and was long before he managed to get his place.  For too long he was behind Campbell and Ferdinand.

bridge was awful tonight!

ashle cole was deemed fit enough to be named as a sub so why didnt he start?

Carragher doesnt have one attribute better than King. When Ferdinand isn't fit, you don't play Terry and Carragher together.

i agree and as said before carrager is the best cover for terry.

so if terry was injured id play carragher and ferdinand rather than king and ferdinand.

as for attributes i think carragher is a better reader of the game and a better passer of the ball than king thats my opinion

Other than defending, you're probably right.

I can see where you are coming from, but King not only played DCM for club, but for his country also, so syaing that Carraghers passing is better than Kings, is a bit off the mark IMO.

I just think that Ferdinand, King and Terry are quite simply in a different league than Carragher, and King is hampered not only by his injury problems, but by the fact that he plays for Tottenham. In the  2002 World Cup, Campbell and Ferdinand were the best Defensive pairing I have seen in my lifetime.

Now, back to England. It is -EV trying to accomodate, Lamps, Gerrard and Rooney in the same team. You need a DM with Lamps and Gerrard, and that means either playing 3 at the back or 1 up top. I don't think that Rooney is suited playing the lone stariker and no one has won anything playing 3 at the back without Maradona in the team. Tonight, he should have started with Bent up front, Gerrard, Lampard and Hargeaves in Midfield and the same wing players, switching sides. You don't play Crouch on his own up front, against those central defenders(old and slow), under those conditions.

If there ever was a blessing in disguise...this is it.

 The whole system is a shambles.

For us not to qualify saves us from the usual "England expects"..."This is the year" bull5hit. For a team of England's stature not to qualify, and teams like Russia and Croatia to get there ahead of us, means there is something inherently wrong with the system. McClaren is a complete <ock...but who appointed that yes-man?

The stuffy, stuck-in-a-time-warp, idiots at the FA.

I'm probably one of the most staunchly conservative, bring-back-the-establishment and pro-status quo person on here ...but even I think there needs to be a massive overhaul of the institution that has avoided appointing the likes of Brian Clough (because he WASN'T a yes-man and going for the manager who will shake things up, because they need yes-men to vindicate their 5hite decisions).

The squad of 2006-2008 has been one of the most talented on paper, but on paper only, since 1990 and yet we have still failed to get out of a group that consisted of a pub-team, three not-long independent developing nations, a war-torn country and a dictatorship with no football heritage since the days of USSR in the 1970s. We need a figure not unlike Peter Kenyon in charge of the national game's governing body, we need no separation between the FA and our top division, we need foreign quotas to stop us having to rely on just ONE star striker (Rooney), on just two class central defenders (Terry and Ferdinand) and second rate goalkeepers (Robinson, James and Carson) if players are injured and we need a top class(foreign or not...I don't give a rat's ar5e) manager.

For no British team to be in Austria/Switzerland is awful...but I wish we'd had the guts of the Scottish or the Northern Irish. Oh and we need to stop kidding ourselves that we have the best league in the world...it comes a poor fourth to Spain's, Germany's and Italy's...best fans in the world? Croatia's supporters made more noise than we have in the entire campaign.

The English game is sick...it needs healing...and quick.

(http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/44254000/jpg/_44254139_mcclaren3.jpg)

That says a lot too. 

Michael Owen is still a top class striker. We have plenty of excellent CD's (Ferdinand, Terry, King, Woodgate, Carragher etc...) so saying there is only two is being very harsh. The keeper situation is very worrying. If Robinson was dropped, than so be it, but instead of throwing Carson into the lions den, he should have stuck James in goal. No matter how many calamities he has thrown in the past, he has experience at the highest level and tonight was a MASSIVE game.

However, being on a gambling forum, you should all understand the high variance that  is international football.

King & woodgate world class? What planet are you on nem?

king is finished due to arthritis i've heard and woodgate is over rated imo

i am surprised nobody has mentioned the goalkeeper tonight, i dont think he had any confidence
at all, in fact i think a lot of englands problems are the pressure the media puts on england,its hard for any of the players to be confident the riducle they receive in the media,  the defence was so poor because every game its a different defence ,no one knows who to cover when balls are played through ,this would happen to any team  with a different defence every week ,  only one man who can be blamed for that, McClarren,i know we have injurys but its still down to him , i wasnt a sven fan but i think it would of been a 0-0 draw tonight if he was still in charge, still think if beckham would of started from day 1 we would of qualified before tonights match

King isn't finished with arthritis and Woodgate has cost more than £30million in transfers.

Woodgate is so good. He has absolutely EVERYTHING. I cannot believe he moved to Middlesbrough, but I guess you would play for Celtic if they were shit.

Woodgate would be 1st choice for country if he was injury free. Anyone who has seen him knows he is absolute class. You don't go to Madrid if your crap. Shame his injuries have meant apart from Leeds he didn't have a chance to prove it.

Beckhams cross tonight was absolutely amazing. Unbelievable cross, but apart from that he did NOTHING.

I'd disagree with this, look at the champions league semi finals last year. Three out of four teams coming from the Premiership.

Wouldn't surprise me to see something similar this year too. Lot's of things are wrong with the national side, but the domestic product is still the best league in the world by any measurable standard.
Match of the Day is the best programme on telly.

My point is the FA Premier League is too powerful.

Beyond that in England below the top 3 or so sides, maybe 4 or 5, I see little quality.

I see more strength in depth in the other three leagues

Wow you must be on drugs or very drunk!  ;carlocitrone; ;tightend; :o ;D

nope, sadly!

So that's one more thing than SWP did then.

Yep.  I cannot believe he never hit that shot first time.

in terms of quality richard is spot on.

For shits and giggles, imagine a last 16 in a competition made up of the current holders of positons 9/10/11 and 12 in their respective leagues.

Aston Villa, Everton, West Ham, Newcastle

Mallorca, Sevilla, Getafe, Athletic Bilbao

Stuttgart, Frankfurt, Wolfsburg and Bochum

Napoli, Catania, AC Milan and Genoa CFC.


I think England's four would put on a better than average showing.

Italy, Spain,. England, Germany...in that order from that group

tank, put up 9 10 11 12ths from the final league positions from last season, that would give a fairer result, not enough games played yet, look at aberdeen up here!

Hello Sir! :cheers:

You're right brad, but I can't be assed the now, bedtime.

Spent too much time tonight already with the WEPC table. http://blondepoker.com/forum/index.php?topic=29100.msg595724#msg595724 :)

:cheers: hello nem,good game for the neutrals tonight!

Totally pwned. :'(

lol never mind, as john motson said tonight, weve got the world cup qualyfing draw to look forward too!

Wow it was going so well till you said this, i mean come on comparing the strength of the German league with the premiership, loooooooool. Imo the premiership is the 2nd best league quality wise to the Spanish who have a greater strengh in depth, you only have to look at Spainish performances in the UEFA cup in recent years.

As for Italy dear me our league is in damn good shape compared to them. There are issues with the premiership and the national team but it ain't the fact that the domestic game is weak.

I thought it'd be best for me not to post in this thread last night as surely the English guys must be a bit sore after seeing their team be such a disgrace.
the reason they had a team going out for a draw was because they, like myself, were expecting Croatia also to go for the draw. England didn't even have the intention to win the game.
McLaren got it wrong (as he so often did), the FA got it wrong by hiring him instead of  Sam Allardyce as they only want a "yes" man who picks players that are popular with the press and not a strong manager who picks his own team and can tell some of the overhyped and overpaid players to naff off.

As for the state of the pitch, doesn't Wembley have a roof?..Just a thought but I always considered closing it a good way to keep the rain out. :)

Ah well, atleast you're not going....Holland is going with a manager just as bad as McLaren and a team I can't support as they too can't be bothered putting in the effort..I don't know which is worse..at least now the people in England have a chance to fix what's wrong with English football (and no, it's not too many foreigner players..realy it isn't)..in Holland they won't and I'll be stuck with a Dutch National side that'll be shit for years :(

The biggest problem we have is judging the ability of our players in the grand scheme of things, because we see our good players playing every week it is too easy to start thinking these are world class in some positions, Lampard and Gerrard are the best midfielders in the country but they are for me a long way below the world class midfielders they have been billed/rated. Best we have , yes but that is way short of top class.

We finished with Crouch, Defoe and Bent up front who cant even get into their club sides, had a half fit Beckham and a patched up back 4, plus a keeper that has been playing reserve footy or at times  lower league footy for most of the last two seasons, how is that ever going to be a succesful International team??

Ferdinand, Terry and Rooney would have made a big difference but in the end we are in decline as a footballing nation and have been for some time.

Can't agree there, I would put the English Premiership a very close second to the Spanish.

However, it  is a league dominated with good (and bad) foreign players......herein lies part of the problem.

I have always enjoyed the premiership and watching the English clubs in Europe, however, I am more often or not watching foreigners and not Englishmen playing these games.

Geo

It's not the amount of foreign players that's the problem though. The problem is that English players are over-hyped and too expensive (16 mill for Bent anyone?) as soon as they show a bit of quality or even have one good season. Clubs can't afford to buy English only. And if the Premierleague wants to remain one of the best int he world it needs the top foreign players to come and play here...

There are foreign players in all the top European leagues!  There are plenty of players from the British Isles in the Premiership:

Take the big 4:

Liverpool:  Gerrard, Crouch, Carragher, Finnan, Pennant
Manu: Rooney, Giggs, Hargreaves, Carrick, Neville, Brown, Ferdinand, Fletcher, Eagles
Arsenal: Walcott, and erm......
Chelsea: Cole, Cole, Lampard, Sidwell, Bridge, Terry, SWP

With the exception of Arsenal, you can see plenty of British (and Irish) players in their teams every week. 

Spain is pretty much universally accepted as the 'most skillful' league.  The Premiership as the 'most exciting' to watch.  Well, Spain are even greater perennial under-achievers than England.  A league that is in utter disarray (Serie A) with its corruption, crowd violence, etc., has produced the world champions. 

I don't think the state of the domestic league is the best indicator of the success of the national side.

:dontask:

Mourinho will not take the job..he already said he would only manage Portugal if he ever took a National manager job.

Why all of a sudden would a foreign manager be good enough again? Wasn't the problem with Sven (the most successful England Manager ever..well since 1966 anyways) that he was a foreigner? Isn't the problem really that, other than Sam Allardyce potentially, all the English managers out there are essentially just like the England players?..in other words..just not good enough.

I hope Allardyce gets the job but I fear he won't for the same reason that Brian Clough never got it..the man actually speaks his mind and that's not appreciated by the FA.

but surely Allardyce's "ethics" over transfers/Panaorama investigation where he promised he'd sue but never did are something the suits are going to want to avoid?

Nobody really gave a crap over that, did they? Nothing was proven no criminal proceedings started,,,Hell as I recall noone called Newcastle hypocrites for sacking someone over that whole thing and a few months hiring Big Sam a their manager.

All I am saying is that right back from Brian Clough onwards the good folk at the Devon FA, Dorset FA and Cumberland FA who get votes on the committee will never ever appoint someone with even a whiff of controversy

It rules out Redknapp (transfer dealing concerns), Allardyce, O'Neill (they hated his telling it like it is at the last interview) etc


Far more likely to appoint someone they can share a Gin and Tonic with, and this sums up the esssential problem

The FA is run by jerks.

after going to all the england games home and away under McClaren i can say that not once have we played well . its just been one farce after another from dropping beckham to putting in carson in to play hist 1st game in such a big game the man did not know wot he was doing its not just the managers fault the players showed not fight in 2 many games they thought they was 2 good for the likes of Israel Macedonia Russia Andorra and even Croatia lets not forget we all thought when the draw for the group was made we just had to turn up to win it thats OK for the fans to think that but not for the players and manager but who must take there blame in all this is the FA they picked the manager and was aware that he was not wot the fans wanted so wot was there thinking in employing him was it that he was a great leader and a master tactician and one of the top 20 managers in the world no it was because he was cheap so wot have we to look forward to in the the new manager the SAME FA will pick god knows but i hope they have learned there lessons or will not be spending my hard earned money on traveling the word to support the team just for the likes of Joe Cole to call on the fans to get behind the team this week  when we lost to Russia the only players to come over to the fans after the game and they did not come fully over 10 yards if that was Rooney Gerrard and ferdinand

i agree, the f,a just want someone in as manager whos nice to get on with,not someone who will rock the boat and point fingers, everyone has there own opinions who should be manager but in the past what has happened ,the f a have picked someone way down the list of most england fans, who will they pick next, probably martin jol knowing there track record,

LOL

God only knows why they picked McClaren ahead of O'Neill and Allardyce in the first place.

So that virtually rules out two of the best candidates now, as they are very unlikely to reapply having been rejected.

I don't see too many good candidates queueing up for the job now and if the FA can get Redknapp they should snap him up and consider themselves very lucky imo. The trouble is that he might be slightly "soiled" by the innuendo in the bung inquiry and the last thing the FA needs is another Venables scenario.

I might have a look at Steve Coppell's price, he seems to tick most of the boxes.  ;carlocitrone;

Why are you even contemplating Redknapp and Coppell? Is it because you want to see an Englishman in charge? Coppell is a good coach but a bottle job. Redknapp is as bent as a 9 bob note. Curbishley would have a heart attack through the stress (have you seen those hand-bags under his eyes?!?)

Capello is the No 1 manager to get to managed England.

I thought we played well against Israel and Russia at home, the two games when Owen and Heskey played up front and Gerrard and Barry in the middle as Lampard was injured.  Coincidence ? I think not.

And as it has been mentioned countless times on this thread can I just say..

Wembley does not have a roof that closes !

I assume it is because the roof behind the goals moves to allow more/less light in that this confuses people.

Paul Ince is saying they should reappoint Hoddle...

I'm thinking Redknapp realy wants the job as he said about Hiddink yesterday "Some people want Hiddink but he couldn't even get his team to beat Israel on Saturday so that shows you how good he is"..hmm sniping at other candidates? Well it's the only way someone who has never really achieved anything or won anything with his clubs (other than preventing them from being relegated) might get the job I guess.