blonde poker forum

Who would you consider the best sportsman/woman in the world at the moment?  What about of all time?

This is obviously a very subjective topic, but what constitutes greatness?  Is it longevity, total dominance of a period in a particular sport, beating a group of very tough pretenders for the throne - or a combination of these and other things?

Someone mentioned Tiger Woods as the greatest sportsman of all time in another thread.  I'm not a huge golf fan, but I know he's pretty good (from what I'm told).  But is he the greatest at the moment (never mind all time)?

What places someone like Tiger Woods above, say Haile Gebrselassie - who's broken 20+ World records over distances ranging from 2,000K to the marathon?  Or what about Michael Jordan, Lance Armstrong, Michael Schumacher, Roger Federer, Shane Warne, or another host of names people could mention?

To be great do they need to transcend the sport they excel in, or just be the best at what they do?  Ali would tell all that listen that he was the greatest, but was he?

How about a shout for Sergei Bubka  or Gary Kasparov  or even our very own Sir Steve Redgrave.  What he won over such a long time period must put him up there.

Bubka was a great, as was Sir Steve.

I don't count chess or poker as a sport (for me sport must include a physical element, even if it's throwing a dart, pulling a trigger or steering a wheel), so I'd discount Kasparov - although he is most certainly one of (if not the) best chess players of all time.

I bet you chess is more tiring than the pole vault and takes more physical stamina

Chess can get quite tiring (as can poker) - but so can sitting at my desk for 8 hours a day in the office.  That's certainly not a sport.

I've played against Kasparov, when I was about 10 years old.  He was playing 50 of us simultaneously.  He hammered me, but I wasn't alone.  He won 49 and drew one game. 

In terms of how much better you are than everyone else then I'd certainly say Tiger will be hailed at the end of his career as the best person at anything, ever. Being consistently just better than everyone else at whatever it is you do.

No mention yet of Don Bradman, who is the other person that springs to mind as being just so much better than everyone else at what he does.

Things like running, cycling and rowing don't really count as there is so little skill. I wouldn't count chess as a sport either, even though Gary Kasparov was the best in my lifetime. When I was a kid I actually played him once in some simultaneous 'look how good I am at beating kiddies' showoff-fest. I let him off with a draw in our game as he begged me not to show him up in front of the other 49 retards he mashed up.

I have played him as well i was about 12 in Chester his record that day was 47 wins and 3 draws

Still quite amazing sport or not

Wasn't Singh ranked as world number 1 sometime over the past 5 years or so?


Best batsman, arguably.  Best cricketer?


Surely they are more 'pure' as sports.  Less technical nonsense in the way?


That's amazing.  If it was the same one I played in you've done well to recover your eyesight and you've aged well.

Yes, that was in 2005 after Tiger made adjustments to his swing which saw his form suffer. He said his swing at the time was messing up either his knee or shoulder and he was changing it to avoid long-term damage. Looks like it worked.

I did read a while back that, such was Tiger's dominance, in terms of world rankings points 2nd place Phil Mickleson was closer to the guy in 1000th place than he was to Tiger.


Surely the 'technical nonsense' is what we're discussing - who is best at the technical nonsense.


Why thank you.

At the moment - Tiger Woods.

All Time - No idea but if someone says Ali I'll scream :)

Ali?

;whistle;

I hate these things because I often find it hard enough naming things like an all time XI, there are people who would be considered great for different reasons but in the same breath you could say they weren't so great maybe due to politics, lifestyle etc.

For me I am going to pick a few people, who I class as greats/legends call them what you like.  And I am going to pick people I have seen perform and people who I think excelled in their particular area.

Football - Henrik Larrson - is an absolute idol for me the best player I have seen in a Celtic jersey.  His lifestyle choices where spot on and a model professional and done everything he ever said he would.

Weightlifting - Naim Suleymanoglu - This guy was absolutely awesome some of the older blondes might remember him as Naim Suleimanov he competed for Bulgaria in Olympic weightlifting before defecting to Turkey.  He smashed records on a staggering 46 occasions.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naim_Suleymanoglu

In athletics for me the greatest of his generation was Michael Johnson - Don't think this has to be quantified in anyway.

michael johnson is a good shout

so dominaint   also he has the fastest 100m of alltime 8.xx secs the middle part of his 200m

I remember David Vine talking about Suleymanoglu's physique.  Saying that the length of his shin was the same as the length of his thigh, which was the same length as his torso, and his upper arm, and lower arm.  This gave him the perfect frame for weightlighting in terms of levers or something.

He was a legend.  Mutlu came after him and did pretty well too.  Great theatre watching these fellas at the Olympics.

Tiger is obviously the best golfer around right now, but he's got a long way to go to be considered better than Nicklaus.

Tiger will almost certainly win more majors,but Nicklaus' record of top 3/5 finishes is amazing.

Jim Leighton

In athletics, there are lots of contenders.  Johnson is certainly one.  But there's Gebrselassie, Bekele, Radcliffe (who I think might top the women's list?), Bubka, Moses, Zatopek, and loads of others - even that annoying sod Jonathan Edwards once he decided to compete on Sundays!

I think we had a similar thread before, and of course its am impossible question to answer


take motor racing: fangio? senna? schumacher?  no idea really..technological differences and varying levels of competition make it impossible to compare like with like

tennis? Laver? Borg? Federer? again for the same reasons, tough

Woods or Nicklaus? or going back Hogan or Bobby Jones? Again, impossible

carl lewis? ed moses? michael Johnson? Bubka? Lasse Viren? All have a claim in their sport


what I do think is that we are privileged to be living through an era where in many sports we have candidates for the title of greatest in their particular sport...


Woods, Federer, m Schumacher (until recently) to name just the three obvious ones 

interesting that you dont name linford christie in the athletics but you name carl lewis

no contest

Lewis, wikipedia

 is a retired American track and field athlete who won 10 Olympic medals including 9 golds, and 10 World Championships medals, of which 8 were golds, in a career that spanned from 1979 when he first achieved a world ranking to 1996 when he last won an Olympic title and subsequently retired. He currently lives in Los Angeles and is pursuing an acting career.

Lewis was a dominant sprinter and long jumper who topped the world rankings in the 100 m, 200 m and long jump events frequently from 1981 to the early 1990s, was named Athlete of the Year by Track and Field News in 1982, 1983 and 1984, and set world records in the 100 m, 4 x 100 m and 4 x 200 m relays. His 65 consecutive victories in the long jump achieved over a span of 10 years is one of the sport’s longest undefeated streaks. As a measure of his competitive accomplishments, his only two losses in the Olympics and World Championships prior to 1993 were to a world record (long jump in 1991) and a low-altitude world best (200 m in 1988).

His lifetime accomplishments have led to numerous accolades, including being voted "Sportsman of the Century" by the International Olympic Committee and being named "Olympian of the Century" by the American sports magazine Sports Illustrated. He also helped transform track and field from its nominal amateur status to its current professional status, thus enabling athletes to have more lucrative and longer-lasting careers.



Absolutely no contest, Christie got off a drug charge by an 11 to 10 vote before he won his only gold and at the tail end of his career was finally done.


now of course Lewis had accusations

see

Drug accusations

In 2003, Dr. Wade Exum, the United States Olympic Committee's director of drug control administration from 1991 to 2000, gave copies of documents to Sports Illustrated which revealed that some 100 American athletes who failed drug tests and should have been prevented from competing in the Olympics were nevertheless cleared to compete. Among those athletes was Carl Lewis.

It was revealed that Lewis tested positive three times before the 1988 Olympics for pseudoephedrine, ephedrine, and phenylpropanolamine, banned stimulants also found in cold medication, and had been banned from the Seoul Olympics and from competition for six months. The USOC accepted his claim of inadvertent use and overturned the decision. Fellow Santa Monica Track Club teammates Joe DeLoach and Floyd Heard were also found to have the same banned stimulants in their systems, and were cleared to compete for the same reason.[71][72]

The positive results occurred at the Olympic Trials in July 1988 where athletes were required to declare on the drug-testing forms "over-the-counter medication, prescription drugs and any other substances you have taken by mouth, injection or by suppository."

"Carl did nothing wrong. There was never intent. He was never told, you violated the rules," said Martin D. Singer, Lewis' lawyer, who also said that Lewis had inadvertently taken the banned stimulants in an over-the-counter herbal remedy.[73] "The only thing I can say is I think it's unfortunate what Wade Exum is trying to do," said Lewis. "I don't know what people are trying to make out of nothing because everyone was treated the same, so what are we talking about? I don't get it."[74]

Former athletes and officials came out against the USOC cover-up. "For so many years I lived it. I knew this was going on, but there's absolutely nothing you can do as an athlete. You have to believe governing bodies are doing what they are supposed to do. And it is obvious they did not", said former American sprint queen and 1984 Olympic champion, Evelyn Ashford.[75]


So perhaps I am being a bit unfair but even if we assume both have "clouds" over them, the relative merits of Lewis and Christie are poles apart IMHO

ignorance is no defence     tell alan baxter who lost his medal for taking a vicks

a cheat is a cheat  all should be removed or all allowed in  cant say only cheated a bit but was still really good

Was there the same strength in depth in the game then as there is now?

Its a fair point but whatever the rights/wrongs of it Christie was banned, Lewis never was

I would have some sympathy for saying that any sport where there are thought to widespread use of drugs should be excluded from a discussion of "greatests"

another example Eddy Merckx? Lance Armstrong? how do you choose? What about the allegations towards Armstrong?


at least, to my knowledge no motor racing driver has ever used drugs to improve his performance!

It's debateable,but i would say there was more strength in depth in Nicklaus' era.
Now players are in the comfort zone,they know it's unlikely they will beat Woods,but they can earn millions by finishing consistantly top 20.

more then surely. Nicklaus had to overtake Arnold Palmer battle off the likes of Lee Trevino and then still went toe to toe with Tom Watson in his 40s..he was at the top from 63-78 roughly and won another in 82(i think, will need to check)

modern day pros do not seem, mentally, to be able to compete with Tiger and to my mind the modern game is in a sense less competitive

He won the Masters in 86.

Agreed the 100m is not in good standing to be discussed as the greatest  4 of the first 5 finishers in the 1988 mens olympic final all tested positive at some point. Lewis tested postive before hand and should never of been there in the first place

ty. So winning majors over a 23 year time span

Woods has some way to go (looks probable) to overtake that, albeit his level of superiority over the field exceeds Nicklaus (which may be due to the lack of competition now)

Lance Armstrong.

superhuman achievements. Fantastic athlete (wonderful life story book if anyone hasn't read it)

but an awful lot of drug accusations

given the disregard most now have for the "straight"ness of professional cycling, can any cyclist be listed as "the greatest?"

why Armstrong over Indurrian

The hype that Armstrong got made him a bigger name  but i dont think you will find he is the greatest cyclist of alltime let alone overall

There are plenty of other athletics events, and great athletes from those events that shine far brighter for me than any of the 100m 'greats'.  It's the same as boxing - the heavyweight division is the one that gets the limelight, but doesn't necessarily contain the best fighters.

Anyone considered Jahangir Kan? an amazing athlete........ The fitness required to even play at this level is immense and to keep it up for so long is amazing

professional squash player from Pakistan, who is considered by many to be the greatest player in the history of the game. During his career he won the World Open six times and the British Open a record ten times. Between 1981 and 1986, he was unbeaten in competitive play for five years. During that time he won 555 matches consecutively. This was not only the longest winning streak in squash history, but also one of longest unbeaten runs by any athlete in top-level professional sport. He retired as a player in 1993, and has served as President of the World Squash Federation since 2002.

geo

In terms of diminance in a team sport, I would say Michael Jordan:

from wikipedia:

Jordan was a shooting guard who was also capable of playing small forward. Jordan was known throughout his career for being a clutch performer. He decided numerous games with last-second plays (e.g., The Shot) and performed well under adverse circumstances (e.g., Flu Game). His competitiveness was visible in his prolific trash-talk[83][84] and solid work ethic.[85][86]

Jordan had a versatile offensive game. He was capable of aggressively slashing to the basket and drawing fouls from his opponents at a high rate; his 8,772 free throw attempts are the ninth highest total of all time.[87] Jordan could also post up his opponents and score with his trademark fadeaway jumpshot, using his leaping ability to "fade away" from block attempts. According to Hubie Brown, this move alone made him nearly unstoppable.[88] Jordan's 5.2 assists per game[7] indicate his willingness to defer to his teammates. In later years, he extended his shooting range to become a three-point threat, rising from a low 9 / 52 rate (.173) in his rookie year into a stellar 111 / 260 (.427) shooter in the 1995–96 season.[7] For a guard, Jordan was also a good rebounder (6.2 per game)[7].

On defense, Jordan's contributions were equally impressive. In 1988, he was honored with the NBA's Defensive Player of the Year Award and became the first NBA player to win both the Defensive Player of the Year and MVP awards in a career. In addition he set records for blocked shots by a guard,[89] and combined this with his ball-thieving ability to become a standout defensive player. His 2,514 steals are the second highest total of all-time behind John Stockton, while his steals per game average is third all-time.[90] Jerry West often stated that he was more impressed with Jordan's defensive contributions than his offensive ones.[91]

His list of achievments can be found here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_career_achievements_by_Michael_Jordan

In term of individual sports I would say Mark Allen (triathlete)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Allen_(triathlete)

THE most drug-tested sportsperson ever, and NEVER failed a test. The greatest...

Andrew T mentioned this earlier in the thread but I think in terms of judging greatness we should just think about this fact.

The gap in World ranking points between Tiger Woods at world number 1 and Phil Mickleson at world number 2 is bigger than the gap between Phill Mickleson at World number 2 and the guy ranked 1000th. That is truly remarkable.

I side with Dwain Chambers in that I believe that anyone at the top of their sport uses some form of performance enhancing drugs.

I remember a number of years back I was competing in a competition and a fellow weightlifter Peter May freely admitted to using steroids claiming that for years he hadn't but found it dificult to understand how two other English lifters Steven Ward and Leon Griffin had made such vast improvements considering they where doing the same training.  Peter was telling folk how he got his "gere" off Colin Jackson who in turn was being supplied by Linford Christie!!

I think we should have the "free range" championships and let those who wish to compete by cheating themselves, competitors and the sport the chance.

Peter Van Vossen

Michael Jordan for me with Tiger woods a close 2nd

dont get the michael jordan thing. He was a tall netball player, if the hoop was 3ft shorter i could have been just as good. Not really the basis to make him a sporting great IMO.

This is such a difficult question comparing eras and sports.

Tiger Woods probably is a close as we are going to get at a good answer to this imo. He is head and shoulders the best in his sport and has been for years. In a sport until he arrived on the scene was very competitive and favourites for majors would be around 10/1 in the betting. He is the greatest golfer of all time no question, Nicklaus et al played in less competitive eras, where only a handful of players could win a major.

As for other candidates of the modern era Roger Federer in Tennis, will no doubt be an all time great and arguably the greatest Tennis player of all time.

Shane Warne no doubt the best spinner ever, no-one will get near to Bradman as a batsman the fact his average 40 runs more than any other test player ever is just remarkable.

Cycling is a strange one, firstly its shrouded in drug allegations and the likes of Indurain and Armstrong while great cyclists were somewhat one dimensional and won back to back Tour de France as they were best time trialists with the best teams.

I think the only current geniune candidate for greatness in boxing is Floyd Mayweather but best ever not for me, though he would make my top 10 pound for pound ever.

Sounds to me that you never saw Jordan play and win games basically on his own?

games of what tho ffs!!!!!!

jordan better than ali, maradona, pele, senna, schumacher, johnson?, i could go on and on.

Highly debateable that Warne is the best spinner ever.

Muralitharan has taken more wickets,has a better average and a better strike rate.

Federer IMO.

But i dont know about most of these old ppl.

Yes, Jordan easily made that category.  If you did not see him in action and the effect he had on spectators you have missed something.  I lived in Chicago during Jordan's heyday and it was something to see.  NBC covered the basketball and televised every Chicago Bulls game which was unusual - many people thought NBC stood for Nothing But Chicago because of this.

All true but you have to remember that Warne had McGrath and others taking wickets before Warne even got the ball in his hands. Plus Warne took wickets around the world, if you look at Muralis record home against away  its nowhere near as good

the effect he had on spectators in chicago / america. wow. the others i mentioned are WORLD legends. Though to be fair i did like his trainers.

Enough said, lol.

Fair point, and yes Murilis record is v impressive. He has alot of matches in that record against sub standard opposition (Bangladesh, Zimbabwe) and played more on sub contenital wickets which are more spinner friendly.

Plus there is something about Warne and the way he bowled which was more intimidating than Murili, Warne> Murili imo.

i doubt there is a bigger named sportsman in the world then Jordan  maybe he is fading but 10 years ago without doubt he was the biggest name in world sports

Greatest of all time? is the thread title, not great with lots of publicity / named merchandise etc. wont be remembered by the masses like Ali, Pele or maybe Woods will be.

I bet he will

even above some of the names you mention

You really do not know much about Michael Jordan do you, lol.

Problem with Jordan especially if we look at from uk-centric point of view basketball is minority sport in the scheme of thing, as I suppose cycling is.

If we are going down that route, what about Wayne Gretzky.

jordan succeeded in the usa, and no doubt was the basketball 'world champion of the usa' the others proved their greatness the world over.

The greatest ice hockey player for sure.

How did Ali prove himself the world over apart from a few fights in Africa.

Jordan played basketball in the US but all the best players from around the world played against him in the NBA.

I read somewhere that even taking his away his wickets against Zimbabwe and Bangladesh,his strike rate and average compares favourably.
Even if Murali gets to 1000 wickets i don't believe he will get the credit he deserves because of his action.

NO!!

sandy lyle

eddie the eagle

Yes, Murali = chucker.

rubbish. double jointed wrist combined with a physical deformity. Action cleared repeatedly by ICC panels, often after much racially motivated complaints from Australasia

Murali and Warne both greats. For me, I'd have Warne.

He hasn't failed a drug test though,unlike 'golden boy' Warne.

This is a bloody tough thread to come and join in the fun, but I will.

who's the greatest has to be, the person who performed at the peak of the sport they compete in for the longest period of time. Do we look at record breakers??

here's my list in no specific order

1) Michael Jordan. Considering just HOW many games they play, the stats are simply astonishing. 
2) Sergei Bubka. How many world records???
3) Tiger Woods. As has been said, not just that he wins tournaments, its the consistent levels, the distance he wins by.
4) Pele. 3 world cups, over 1000 goals scored. THE football icon.
5) Donald Bradman. Again the stats over time are amazing
6) Michael Schumacher. As much as I hated the bloke for winning all the time, he won all the time. His skills in wet weather conditions where the car's technology is all but useless show just how far ahead he was of his peers.
7) Wayne Gretzky. To hold SIXTY records in his sport is immense.
8) Michael Johnson. Dominance of 2 events over a long period + world records


There's so many more to mention, Steven Redgrave, Steve Davis, Stephen Hendry, Shane Warne, Haile Gebreselassie, Jan Zelezny, Paula Radcliffe, Ed Moses, Lance Armstrong..

bloody hell i could go on all night..

[X] Doesn't like boxing or tennis ;-)

There's some form of statisical analysis on Don Bradman's wikipedia page (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bradman)

Probablity against being as good as him: 1/184,000

compared to Pele - 1/9,300, Ty Cobb - 1/6,300, Jack Nicklaus 1/4,300, Michael Jordan 1/3,000

more like hadn't finished and couldnt be bothered going on with other sports.. I'll finish another night I think

Not the greatest sportsman but one of the greatest sporting achievements has to be Bob Champion and Aldaniti coming from their death beds to win the 1981 Grand National.

'Bob Champion was thirty-one and one of the top jump jockeys in Britain when he discovered he had cancer in 1979. He was told he might only have a few months to live and went through months of chemotherapy. What kept him going was the dream of winning the Grand National - one of the most prestigious and demanding steeplechases in British racing. In 1981 Bob Champion overcame his cancer, and went on to win the Grand National, on a horse called Aldaniti who had also come back from crippling injury - not once, but three times'

Blast from the past: Ed Moses

Just seen this thread. There hasn't been a single female athlete/sportswoman of any kind metioned yet, so who's the greatest female sportswoman of all time?

To kick things off how about Babe Didrikson Zaharias?

Steffi Graf

Navratilova

an argument for Billie Jean King too

Jackie Joyner Kersee

"More than 40 years after her death, Babe Didrikson still outranked all but one of the outstanding sportswomen who followed her when she made it to second place in the list of greatest female athletes of the twentieth century drawn up by the American magazine Sports Illustrated for Women. Jackie Joyner-Kersee, given the benefit of the drug scandals that broke around her, was ranked first for her versatility as a track-and-fi eld athlete. Not only was she one of the best performers (three golds, one silver, two bronzes in four Olympics), said the magazine, but 'the energy of her athleticism and personality wrapped itself around all of women's sport at precisely the time when it began to grow.'" from www.si.com


the article concluded


"All the others with a claim to having been the best are stars of a single sport, tennis having produced the most. Martina Navratilova, whose remarkable career spanned more than 30 years, is arguably pre-eminent among them. Billie Jean King and Steffi Graf also demand consideration.

Other contenders include the Norwegian figure skater Sonja Henie, who won 10 world championships and three Olympic golds; Romania's Nadia Comaneci, the first gymnast to record a perfect score in Olympic competition; and Wilma Rudolph, the American who overcame polio to win both Olympic sprints in 1960."

In 1988, Graf won the Olympic gold medal in singles and all four Grand Slam singles titles that year, becoming the first and only player to win the "Golden Slam."

absolutely. Must be strongly considered

As must Navratilova for sheer sex appeal.

That was so funny.

How about Jenna Jameson.

She has had a long career, she has excelled in both ladies only, mixed and multi player events she is also done well in many disciplines

I particularly enjoyed her doubles partnership with Brianna Banks

Paula Radcliffe was mentioned.  I'd argue she's the (or one of the) greatest British sportswomen of all time.

what about Fatima whitbread







Oh sorry ... Women athletes  you said ..

(http://news.bbc.co.uk/media/images/39288000/jpg/_39288173_fatima1987_300x300.jpg)

Bet you used to love that trademark wiggle...

Apologies, you're right Daniel. I'm surpirsed Ironside didn't retort with Liz McColgan.

Thats not a camel toe!!!

rotflmfao

A bloke walked into a bar and ordered a pint of Whitbread he placed it on a table and walked into the gents. A young lady hoisted her skirt and blew off in the glass. When he came out the barman explained what had happened. He aproached the girl and said
"oy you fart in my Whitbread"
She said "no I'm Tessa Sanderson"

LOL - can't compare the two really though.  For those who don't realise, for every distance from 8K up to the marathon, Paula Radcliffe holds either the world record or the world best time (world best is for races not sanctioned by the IAAF).

• 8 km road - 24:05  (World Best)
     
• 10 km road - 30:21 (World Record)
     
• 15 km road - 46:41 (World Best)
     
• 10 mi road - 50:01 (World Best)
     
• 20 km road - 1:02.21 (World Record)
     
• Half Marathon - 1:05:40 (World Best)
     
• 25 km road - 1:20:36 (World Best)
     
• 30 km road - 1:36:36 (World Best)
     
• 20 mi road - 1:43:33 (World Best)
     
• Marathon - 2:15:25 (World Record)

Not too shabby.

Very impressive.

Wilt Chamberlain

 Wilton Norman "Wilt" Chamberlain (August 21, 1936–October 12, 1999), nicknamed Wilt the Stilt, The Big Dipper, and Chairman of the Boards, was an American professional National Basketball Association (NBA) basketball player for the Philadelphia/San Francisco Warriors, the Philadelphia 76ers and the Los Angeles Lakers; and also played for the Harlem Globetrotters. The 7 foot 1 inch Chamberlain, who weighed 250 lb as a rookie[1] before bulking up to 275 lb and eventually over 300 lb with the Lakers,[2] played the center position and is widely considered one of the greatest and most dominant players in the history of the NBA.

Chamberlain holds numerous official NBA all-time records, setting records in many scoring, rebounding and durability categories. Among others, he is the only player in NBA history to average more than 40 and 50 points in a season or score 100 points in a single NBA game. He also won seven scoring, nine field goal percentage, and eleven rebounding titles, and once even led the league in assists.[3] Although suffering a long string of professional losses,[4] Chamberlain had a successful career, winning two NBA titles, earning four regular-season Most Valuable Player awards, one NBA Finals MVP award, and being selected to 13 All-Star Games and ten All-NBA First and Second teams.[2][5] Chamberlain was subsequently enshrined in the Basketball Hall of Fame in 1978, elected into the NBA's 35th Anniversary Team of 1980, and chosen as one of the 50 Greatest Players in NBA History of 1996.[5]

Off the court, Chamberlain was also a successful businessman, authored several books and appeared in the movie Conan the Destroyer. He was a lifelong bachelor, but became notorious for his claim to have had sex with 20,000 women, a statement which has entered popular culture.[6]

The last sentence has to be admired ;gobsmacked;

BREAKING NEWS ON BBC: Lance Armstorng comes out of retirement for 2009 Tour De France...  Amazing...

PS.  Was so glad he retired at the top, dont want to see him back even though he's an A1 legend...

ali- end of lock the thread imo

how kin can compare gabresdalasie to ali god only knows

Ali was a lot of hot air. Not even the greatest ever boxer.

Armstrong is f'kin joke. Beats cancer and chooses to spend the rest of the time he has been gifted cheating at cycling.

dont agee mate, ali was a legend and the greatest boxer ever imo
to come back 3 times takes some talent and some balls!

Why is number of comebacks a good thing? Sure they take all the things you mentioned and are impressive. What makes it more impressive than simply staying at the top and not going away though?

I don't no if he is or not but I can't see how anyone can look past Ali he's the greatest a true legend a great man.When I watched him on BBC Sports Personality of Year the Parkinson's Disease had clearly taking a lot out of him he could hardly walk then out of nowhere he did the Ali Shuffle was one of the most amazing things i've seen everyone there was shocked tried to find footage of it on youtube but not there hmm.

surely showing charector  (sp)and rising again after getting the shit kicked out of you takes some balls lol ive never managed it have you?

This has never been proven and the man is innocent till proven guilty where i come from.

You're maybe right, but I've got it in for all cyclists this week. Lunatics on the road.

Chris Hoy can fek off too, he just encourages them.

Whitey Durham or Skillz Taylor yo.

Stig inge Bjoernbye. End thread. Tx.

Of all the possible criteria of what constitutes the greatest sportsperson of all time, I think that the ability to do what Turny and Tank can't, is quite far down the list.

Who's the greatest ?

Bobby Charlton.

 ;tightend;

Thank you for asking.

 ;hattip;

He's the most tested athlete on the planet and has never failed a single test. Armstrong would never have won the Tour if it wasnt for cancer, he fully acknowledges that, but if you'd read his books you may have a different opinion on the man.

Ali certainly wasn't the best boxer ever.  I'd place Julio Cesar Chavez above him for one.

I think he was the 'greatest' sportsman ever in the way he transcended the sport - but there have been a lot of more talented boxers, and there have been other sportsmen who have dominated their sports far more than Ali did.

Best boxer of all-time?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sugar_Ray_Robinson

He got the chance to shag sheryl crow, but he thought riding a bike was more fun.

(http://www.planetsmilies.com/smilies/sign/sign0065.gif)

Same thing surely ?

Kate Hudson >>>>> Sheryl Crow

The Crow >>>> Sheryl Crow

Muhammed Ali - Boxer

Pele - Footballer

Michael Schumacher - F1 Driver

Tiger Woods - Golfer

4 seriously talented sports people of all time.

hahaha just seen this

The best "boxer" ever (in the technical sense) will never be a heavyweight though. Ali was the best fighter though without a shadow of a doubt.

My pick for the best boxer would probably be Chavez too. Possibly Roy Jones Jr. From the boxers I've seen anyway.

In the old pound for pound stakes, where does Sugar Ray Leonard fit in ?

I haven't seen much boxing for an age, but going back to the old days of valve tv, he was far and away the best imo.

Sugar Ray Leonard was good - definitely a top 10 in my book.  From what I've heard the 'experts' say, Sugar Ray Robinson was the best. The videos I've seen of him seem to back that up. 

8 pages and not one single mention for Phil 'The Power' Taylor. He is so far ahead of the darts players and is even better now than ever. And Eric Bristow before him?

As for chess not being a sport, I think it is so Vladmir Kramnik, Gary Kasparov, Anatoly Karpov and Bobby Fischer are the greatest chess players up to now

i was just going to post phil taylor  http://www.philthepower.com/powerbiography.html

I think Sugar ray would take him in the third.

Chess is a great game, but it's not a sport in my book.

If you are talking great chess players, you've missed out arguably the greatest - Capablanca.

Its tough to compare Capablanca, Morphy, Botvinnik, Alekhine etc because of the differences in time and understanding in theory on the game. But from the games I've seen Capablanca is up there. I think Kasparov and Karpov would beat him slightly more than he would them though but thats just an opinion after seeing more games.

You have to take him at his time though.

Anyone of top 20 male tennis players today could probably pump Rod Laver on his arse more often than not, just because the game has come on so much. Doesn't take anything away from what Rod Laver achieved though.

How would era affect your standing at Chess? Surely it's a game where era is irrelevant other than the strength of your opposition. A greatest of all time would be easier to define than in other games/sports by purely analysing the moves people made.

Analysis is so much better today, for one thing.  Modern players 'train' better than in previous era's.  They are physically and mentally better equipped for a long challenge.

I agree to an extent, but surely at the very highest level a player will seperate themselves from the previous bests by being more creative and adaptive then past players have been. That you can judge regadless of era.

I know it's standing on the shoulders of giants a little but it's still doing things no one else had the foresight to do before.

Agree with all said about Capablance and the other chess gods before him.

I suppose if we were to do this with other games we could say look at Joe Davis in Snooker, Eric Bristow in darts, George Best (when compared to Ronaldo of today) etc etc. You can only go on equipment available to them and how they utilise it compared to their peers.