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Author Topic: Who's the Greatest?  (Read 16442 times)
Ironside
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« Reply #15 on: February 26, 2008, 06:36:43 PM »

Jim Leighton
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« Reply #16 on: February 26, 2008, 06:38:32 PM »

In athletics for me the greatest of his generation was Michael Johnson - Don't think this has to be quantified in anyway.

In athletics, there are lots of contenders.  Johnson is certainly one.  But there's Gebrselassie, Bekele, Radcliffe (who I think might top the women's list?), Bubka, Moses, Zatopek, and loads of others - even that annoying sod Jonathan Edwards once he decided to compete on Sundays!

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« Reply #17 on: February 26, 2008, 06:41:04 PM »

I think we had a similar thread before, and of course its am impossible question to answer


take motor racing: fangio? senna? schumacher?  no idea really..technological differences and varying levels of competition make it impossible to compare like with like

tennis? Laver? Borg? Federer? again for the same reasons, tough

Woods or Nicklaus? or going back Hogan or Bobby Jones? Again, impossible

carl lewis? ed moses? michael Johnson? Bubka? Lasse Viren? All have a claim in their sport


what I do think is that we are privileged to be living through an era where in many sports we have candidates for the title of greatest in their particular sport...


Woods, Federer, m Schumacher (until recently) to name just the three obvious ones 
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« Reply #18 on: February 26, 2008, 06:44:06 PM »

interesting that you dont name linford christie in the athletics but you name carl lewis
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« Reply #19 on: February 26, 2008, 06:48:41 PM »

interesting that you dont name linford christie in the athletics but you name carl lewis

no contest

Lewis, wikipedia

 is a retired American track and field athlete who won 10 Olympic medals including 9 golds, and 10 World Championships medals, of which 8 were golds, in a career that spanned from 1979 when he first achieved a world ranking to 1996 when he last won an Olympic title and subsequently retired. He currently lives in Los Angeles and is pursuing an acting career.

Lewis was a dominant sprinter and long jumper who topped the world rankings in the 100 m, 200 m and long jump events frequently from 1981 to the early 1990s, was named Athlete of the Year by Track and Field News in 1982, 1983 and 1984, and set world records in the 100 m, 4 x 100 m and 4 x 200 m relays. His 65 consecutive victories in the long jump achieved over a span of 10 years is one of the sport’s longest undefeated streaks. As a measure of his competitive accomplishments, his only two losses in the Olympics and World Championships prior to 1993 were to a world record (long jump in 1991) and a low-altitude world best (200 m in 1988).

His lifetime accomplishments have led to numerous accolades, including being voted "Sportsman of the Century" by the International Olympic Committee and being named "Olympian of the Century" by the American sports magazine Sports Illustrated
. He also helped transform track and field from its nominal amateur status to its current professional status, thus enabling athletes to have more lucrative and longer-lasting careers.



Absolutely no contest, Christie got off a drug charge by an 11 to 10 vote before he won his only gold and at the tail end of his career was finally done.


now of course Lewis had accusations

see

Drug accusations

In 2003, Dr. Wade Exum, the United States Olympic Committee's director of drug control administration from 1991 to 2000, gave copies of documents to Sports Illustrated which revealed that some 100 American athletes who failed drug tests and should have been prevented from competing in the Olympics were nevertheless cleared to compete. Among those athletes was Carl Lewis.

It was revealed that Lewis tested positive three times before the 1988 Olympics for pseudoephedrine, ephedrine, and phenylpropanolamine, banned stimulants also found in cold medication, and had been banned from the Seoul Olympics and from competition for six months. The USOC accepted his claim of inadvertent use and overturned the decision. Fellow Santa Monica Track Club teammates Joe DeLoach and Floyd Heard were also found to have the same banned stimulants in their systems, and were cleared to compete for the same reason.[71][72]

The positive results occurred at the Olympic Trials in July 1988 where athletes were required to declare on the drug-testing forms "over-the-counter medication, prescription drugs and any other substances you have taken by mouth, injection or by suppository."

"Carl did nothing wrong. There was never intent. He was never told, you violated the rules," said Martin D. Singer, Lewis' lawyer, who also said that Lewis had inadvertently taken the banned stimulants in an over-the-counter herbal remedy.[73] "The only thing I can say is I think it's unfortunate what Wade Exum is trying to do," said Lewis. "I don't know what people are trying to make out of nothing because everyone was treated the same, so what are we talking about? I don't get it."[74]

Former athletes and officials came out against the USOC cover-up. "For so many years I lived it. I knew this was going on, but there's absolutely nothing you can do as an athlete. You have to believe governing bodies are doing what they are supposed to do. And it is obvious they did not", said former American sprint queen and 1984 Olympic champion, Evelyn Ashford.[75]


So perhaps I am being a bit unfair but even if we assume both have "clouds" over them, the relative merits of Lewis and Christie are poles apart IMHO
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« Reply #20 on: February 26, 2008, 06:55:39 PM »

ignorance is no defence     tell alan baxter who lost his medal for taking a vicks

a cheat is a cheat  all should be removed or all allowed in  cant say only cheated a bit but was still really good
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« Reply #21 on: February 26, 2008, 06:56:42 PM »

Tiger is obviously the best golfer around right now, but he's got a long way to go to be considered better than Nicklaus.

Tiger will almost certainly win more majors,but Nicklaus' record of top 3/5 finishes is amazing.

Was there the same strength in depth in the game then as there is now?
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« Reply #22 on: February 26, 2008, 07:04:03 PM »

ignorance is no defence     tell alan baxter who lost his medal for taking a vicks

a cheat is a cheat  all should be removed or all allowed in  cant say only cheated a bit but was still really good

Its a fair point but whatever the rights/wrongs of it Christie was banned, Lewis never was

I would have some sympathy for saying that any sport where there are thought to widespread use of drugs should be excluded from a discussion of "greatests"

another example Eddy Merckx? Lance Armstrong? how do you choose? What about the allegations towards Armstrong?


at least, to my knowledge no motor racing driver has ever used drugs to improve his performance!
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« Reply #23 on: February 26, 2008, 07:04:13 PM »

Tiger is obviously the best golfer around right now, but he's got a long way to go to be considered better than Nicklaus.

Tiger will almost certainly win more majors,but Nicklaus' record of top 3/5 finishes is amazing.

Was there the same strength in depth in the game then as there is now?

It's debateable,but i would say there was more strength in depth in Nicklaus' era.
Now players are in the comfort zone,they know it's unlikely they will beat Woods,but they can earn millions by finishing consistantly top 20.
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« Reply #24 on: February 26, 2008, 07:06:11 PM »

Tiger is obviously the best golfer around right now, but he's got a long way to go to be considered better than Nicklaus.

Tiger will almost certainly win more majors,but Nicklaus' record of top 3/5 finishes is amazing.

Was there the same strength in depth in the game then as there is now?

more then surely. Nicklaus had to overtake Arnold Palmer battle off the likes of Lee Trevino and then still went toe to toe with Tom Watson in his 40s..he was at the top from 63-78 roughly and won another in 82(i think, will need to check)

modern day pros do not seem, mentally, to be able to compete with Tiger and to my mind the modern game is in a sense less competitive
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« Reply #25 on: February 26, 2008, 07:08:09 PM »

Tiger is obviously the best golfer around right now, but he's got a long way to go to be considered better than Nicklaus.

Tiger will almost certainly win more majors,but Nicklaus' record of top 3/5 finishes is amazing.

Was there the same strength in depth in the game then as there is now?

more then surely. Nicklaus had to overtake Arnold Palmer battle off the likes of Lee Trevino and then still went toe to toe with Tom Watson in his 40s..he was at the top from 63-78 roughly and won another in 82(i think, will need to check)

modern day pros do not seem, mentally, to be able to compete with Tiger and to my mind the modern game is in a sense less competitive

He won the Masters in 86.
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« Reply #26 on: February 26, 2008, 07:10:06 PM »

ignorance is no defence     tell alan baxter who lost his medal for taking a vicks

a cheat is a cheat  all should be removed or all allowed in  cant say only cheated a bit but was still really good

Its a fair point but whatever the rights/wrongs of it Christie was banned, Lewis never was

I would have some sympathy for saying that any sport where there are thought to widespread use of drugs should be excluded from a discussion of "greatests"

another example Eddy Merckx? Lance Armstrong? how do you choose? What about the allegations towards Armstrong?


at least, to my knowledge no motor racing driver has ever used drugs to improve his performance!

Agreed the 100m is not in good standing to be discussed as the greatest  4 of the first 5 finishers in the 1988 mens olympic final all tested positive at some point. Lewis tested postive before hand and should never of been there in the first place
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« Reply #27 on: February 26, 2008, 07:10:18 PM »

ty. So winning majors over a 23 year time span

Woods has some way to go (looks probable) to overtake that, albeit his level of superiority over the field exceeds Nicklaus (which may be due to the lack of competition now)
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« Reply #28 on: February 26, 2008, 07:15:49 PM »

Lance Armstrong.
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« Reply #29 on: February 26, 2008, 07:19:53 PM »

Lance Armstrong.


superhuman achievements. Fantastic athlete (wonderful life story book if anyone hasn't read it)

but an awful lot of drug accusations

given the disregard most now have for the "straight"ness of professional cycling, can any cyclist be listed as "the greatest?"
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