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Pretty shocked to see a celebration of English history is banned because of racial tensions...

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/article-23479328-details/Cancelled+on+police+advice%3A+St+George%27s+Day+parade+through+the+Bradford+race-riot+zone/article.do

Disgusting imo.

Or rather cancelled by the organisers because they refused to avoid 2 streets at the centre of the riots a few years back.

Doesn't that just seem eminently sensible?

Well....shouldnt have even got that far, and no reason to cancel the whole thing playing into peoples fears...lets just give up...nah thats very poor.

The organisers cancelled it, which seems odd really. Unless they had some untold reason for really wanting to go down those streets,

from my reading it was the organisers that decided to cancel the whole thing - it wasn't 'banned' as your post suggests.  Surely the safety of the children taking part should be paramount, and if the police suggested an alternative route, why cancel the whole thing in a huff?

7 years ago.

Those streets were deliberately chosen for that reason, or would you make any historical centre of disturbance a no-go area ad infinitum?

And with the number of people who they were expecting to take part the route would have to be a certain length for it to be viable.

I agree.

I just find it sad that just down the road from me...there are fears of violence over a celebration of English history?!??

What went wrong?

If the police had specific intelligence that there were groups planning on disrupting this route then fair enough.

But if there were plans to do so then I would expect them to disrupt whichever route was chosen - which suggests that the police are only worried about the idea of that route on St Georges day rather than the practical reality of whether it is safe or not.

I think the stabbing of an Asian kid by a bunch of racists went wrong.

fyp.

Erm, the Asian kids weren't English then?

 ;popcorn; well this should turn into a fun thread now.

English = white, I presume

lol. But what you said can just as easily be reversed.

But baldie was referring to incident that sparked the riots...

The trouble with any attempts to celebrate ones English heritage is this..

The St Georges cross (Flag of St George) was hijacked by racists and football hooligans and used very prominently in extreme right wing propaganda activities, we as a Nation have to take back the flag and not be afraid to display it.

Quite how we do this, I dont know, but the fact (or should that be FACT) is English people should not be afraid or embarrassed to show patriotism. It irks me that the Welsh, Irish and Scottish can happily celebrate their patron saints days in towns and cities across the world, yet the English cannot even celebrate in towns and cities in their own country.

Patriotism is too often seen as racism, and there in lies the English problem.

I think Euro 2006 pretty much did this.

You might need a YouGov poll of some sort to test my theory - but I strongly suspect that if you asked most people in Britain what the flag made them think of, a small minority would say anything about the right wing.

I think it is now mainly people who are linked with this sector (either for or against them) that now still see it the same.

I would have to argue that point Jon, Its the people that make the decisions that have the hang ups, the councils and government departments across the country who wont even allow the flag to be flown from town halls and government buildings in case they upset anyone... its all wrong imo.

Is that not more to do with the fact that we don't have an English Government?

I reckon there should be a devolved English parliament like the Scots and the Welsh have.

 ;popcorn; and now to wait for the people from the colonies to come in.

yes, there probably should be.

agree with kev, Minorities in the communites are spoiling it for the rest of the country. In derby the pakistans can wave there flag on independance day. so can the welsh ,irish and scots. Got to the point you cant display a english flag during a major sports occasion incase we upset minorities, who by the way have come here pledged allegiance to the crown, but in some cases thats where it ends. a wreath laying at the war dead memorial in derby to celebrate st georges day.
ps by minorities i mean football hooligans thugs, druggies and people who dont give respect to common decent people.

I think I'll go out for the rest of the day.....

quite, be back on about midnight, just to see the wreckage.

slackers!

 :goodpost:

you just can't find the staff these days. If we had Scottish mods we wouldn't be having this problem ;)

Do you think that it's the Pakistanis that have a problem with the English flag though?

you do. bigger problem!

or German ones.

or Bold ones

We have a Scottish mod?..Someone from scotland?...You know..proper Scotland..not Iceland or Norway.

Yes.

We do, a Paradise I hear. Albeit he keeps making a rod for his own back.

Ken Livingstone has a lot to answer for. the twat allows St Patrick's day celebrations in London (he even funds them) but bans St George's day.

having a parade/celebration in the capital would be a big step towards regaining the flag and some pride

OH..just to clarify...he shouldn't be someone who also still signs on...(so that rules out anyone from Glasgow :)

no i dont think it is, but you get all the liberals moanining about english patriasm. Why shouldnt people be able to celebrate there own country especially in the country of origin

Maybe they should celebrate by having a spelling-bee?

I think part of the reason (problem to some?) is that there is no real 'English' identity.  The Scots/Welsh/Irish all have their own strong sense of identity (and on the flip side, stereotypes), but I don't really have a feel as to what 'Englishness' is (apart from that no one else likes us) and what I should therefore be proud of.  I'm guessing that's because I've grown up in an age where our country has become a melting pot - perhaps things were different in Tikay's day.  Not entirely sure about that though as the American's in particular seem to have a greater sense of patriotism than most, and a more mixed bag you couldn't find anywhere.  I'm talking twaddle now.

/:-| ;yellowcard; - yellow card for boldie for a low blow.

I tend to find that English people are proud to be British more than they are proud to be English. Nothing wrong with that IMO as British traditionally is the same as English (according to QI and Stephen Fry is never wrong)

No Claire, I think you've got a point. Only recently has English Identity been different from British Identity (something that annoyed the hell out of the celtic nations). I welcomed the resurgence of the St George's cross as it showed that no longer was it the union jack, rule brittania which signified an English identity.

I don't think it's the melting pot thing - just that people have been a bit lost to find that British wasn't the same as English when the parliaments were created, England needs to re-establish her identity. A scottish sikh can wear a tartan turban and be one of the tartan army easilly enough - joining in with the national identity is easier for him, how does an english sikh make the same step?

no I didn't think it was really, just thinking aloud and not really knowing the answer myself.  What you've said makes a lot of sense though.

OK, Stand aside!! I'm here now.

ok, really going out soon then

er, FACT

This is where the problem is. A Sikh born in Cardiff may well call himself a Welsh Sikh, similarly one born in Glasgow could describe himself as a Scottish Sikh, but one born in England would be far more likely to call himself a British Sikh, not an English one.

People (both white and non-white) generally think of English = exclusively white, with British as the more inclusive term. Therefore, St George's Day is seen as something exclusively for white people, which is where a lot of the problems come from. Mostly from guilty middle-class white people, it has to be said.

  ;)

Although I don't agree with the full scale indoctrination you get in the States, the fact is that they have a strong sense of history (such that it is) and they teach it and celebrate it. This enables 3rd, 4th,5th generation immigrants reason and opportunity to feel proud of 'their' country.

British by birth, English by grace of god.




(I like that, even though I'm an atheist, and against nationalism, even though I feel patriotic, and don't know why)

Liberals need a slap with a moist kipper!....the problem lies with immigrants who want to change the British way of life, ie laws etc and dont want to intergrate thus leading to extremism and then to the attacks we have seen in recent years in London and Glasgow. 1000s of Polish have moved to Selby where I am from and dont cause any bother as they have no problem with the way things are....

:goodpost:
Also 1 of the reasons I decided I wanted to leave this country

You mean religion is the problem?

Prob yeah...seems to be the cause of most wars and conflicts.

you sound like that BNP leaflet I've been reading....

Yeah? I will check out their Party Political Broadcasts on BBc1 and Itv then....

it's all on their website apparently.

Yeah thanks...quite an interesting read...

3 very good posts imo.

On a number of occaissions when working with the Americans I have actually been asked why a Scotsman was fighting for the British Army??

As to Americans and their patriotism. In my experience most times I got speaking to Americans they tended to introduce themselves as American/Irish - American/Italian - American/Scot etc. etc. I think I mentioned this before a while back on another thread.

I'd be happier if they just called themselves Americans.

Got to agree that the English should be re-asserting there identity and local councils need to stop all this PC crap. After all, other nationalities living in Britain are encouraged to celebrate their country of origins festivals, national and religious, so why shouldn't you guys.

Happy St George's when it comes anyway.

Geo

Because flag-waving and identity-asserting aren't really an English thing to do. Not when there's tea to be drunk.

Best to leave that kind of thing to foreigners.

Yep - not something I'd feel comfortable doing.  (the flag waving, not the tea drinking)

I think Kev nailed it on the head early on in the thread.  The St George's cross is associated with English Hooliganism and also the racists and Fascists of the right wing, even those who would proclaim not to be racists are now moving closer to the extreme right with their bigoted views on immigration.

By all means celebrate your Englishness but not at the expense of any other race or creed. 

Creed?  If the creed infringes on my civil liberties or the civil liberties of others, then I will run down any creed.

rotflmfao that's one of the funniest posts I've read in ages!

Fran's going to give you a slap next time she sees you.

Blonde St George's Day tourney imo - polo shirt to highest finishing Englander - Laxie'll just have to settle for 1st place prize money

..and we can do the same on the other 3 'days'.

Why?  I didn't say I'd stop anyone from believing in anything, or from acting out their strange rituals - but I will retain my freedom and right to mock and criticise.  Religion is not above criticism.

Whoops... ;ashamed;

But do we not allow these negative groups to take ownership of the St Georges flag and identity by not celebrating our national day.

Should the masses not infact celebrate St Georges day and redefine it as a positive thing and it could even be done by celebrating and intergrating our new multi cultural society. Just an idea. Or alternatively we could be left to feel embarrassed by our national heritage just because the hooligans are better at marketing than our politically correct authorities.

and now you know why it was soo funny :)

I see, Blondie.

lol..standard Kinboshi reply now when he fnds he's been rumbled.

it's boldielocks now don't ya know?

Nope, is Blondie.  Although I like boldielocks too. 

And the 3 hairs?  ;hide;

 rotflmfao

I'm going to complain to that TJ fella about you lot..I am sure he'd be very dissapointed in you all.

Especially that Kin fella who quite openly abuses his mod powers and puts things under peoples avatar.

yeah complain that's what I'll do!...TJ would never allow people calling me boldielocks or anything of the sort!

oh....wait..didn't he start it all?

.
(http://img329.imageshack.us/img329/4854/picture012or3.jpg)

I a reporting that pic, i feel like you trampled all over my civil rights and have tainted my cultural beliefs showing 2 females having what looks like a fun time wrapped in an English Flag!,

Where's is that report to the mods button?

I didn't know we could do that - hey it works!!!! ;D

lol nice one!

Oh don't you start on me! I'm going to write in to Skypoker..Surely Compo or TJ must be working pretty soon and can help me out?