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well tomorrow at 7.45pm the biggest most crucial game of my life will commence. we will be up against it again tomorrow as we have been all season, whatever the outcome this will be one day i will remember forever, ive got rangers supporting friends ive not seen for ages going to manchester from N.I ,london and obviously every rangers supporter i know from glasgow going down.

can we bring the cup back to glasgow? i dont know Zenit are a quality side.

leaving at 5am, lets hope by the time i get back we will be champions!

[/color] we are the people!

Lets hope that some places have the real big game on tomorrow night. Championship playoffs all the way.

I'd like to 'see' Rangers win it though, may as well keep it localish. Enjoy the day.

(http://d.yimg.com/eur.yimg.com/ng/sp/empics/20071209/00/3439554928-soccer-uefa-cup-group-everton-v-zenit-st-petersburg-goodison.jpg)

1 time

good luck 2morrow Rangers men tho Ive backed Zenit to win it I wont be too unhappy to see Rangers win.

As a warm up, can you imagine being on the away end in the Darmstadt v Bayern game tonight.

Darmstadt were winning 4-2....final score Darmstadt 5 Bayern 11.

Lets hope for some of that 2morrow night eh.  ;)

Good luck zenit

honestly manchester wont know whats hit it, 100,000 gers fans plus zenit, cant remember the exact figures but something like 24k for the fanzones-23k for pubs and clubs, wheres the rest gonna go!

i never, ever ever ever ever ever thought i would say this but... please god.................


















Orange Dick and Big fernando FTW

Good Luck...... Rangers FTW obv as is british team..  :)up

Cambo how you gettin down?? did you speak to dougie?? he told me later we got the last 2 spaces

p.s give us a bell or i'll phone u to meet up for a beer-we're meetin craig down there anyway so no doubt you'll be with him??

getting a lift from another dougie at 5am drving down with him and raymond, dont think youve met them, ive said to craig ill meet him and russell at the train station when they get in at 10am depending on the traffic. if not ill get yous in one of the fan zones or where ever...ill give u a ring

I've been at Mottram Hall Hotel just outside Manchester for the last couple of days with work and all the Glasgow team are staying there. I know sweet FA about Footie (and even less about scottish footie) so the only people I recognised were Ally McCoist and Walter Smith, however one of my colleagues is a big fan and managed to get loads of pics with the players etc. I have to say that whilst I was not really interested anyway Ally McCoist was actually a very nice friendly guy whilst many of the players seemed pretty aloof, however the girls I work with were a bit disappointed with him and thought he looked alot rougher than he does on telly LOL.

Will be railing Rangers hard, British team n all

Think they are up against it big time though.


1time

I think rangers will win comfortably.

I reckon 5-3.....on penalties

i actually cant wait!

just about to go out and get jollied  ;D

Not going to manchester, but got tickets for the ibrox beamback!

glglglglglglglglglglglgl rangers!

WE ARE THE PEOPLE!

I'm all for Rangers winning, just not until penalties.

10-1 for them to win on penalties and 7-1 for 0-0 draw after 90mins.

Biggest game of your life? Have a great trip.

Good luck Rangers, do they sell sombreros & Beachballs in Manchester ?

Mate who works in Manchester rung me at 11am this morning and told me virtually all the shops had sold out of Booze and the pubs were packed already! He went home as it was packed in the centre already lol.

I hope Rangers win,

When Steelio used to follow Celtic (kinda) i always used to follow Rangers to wind him up.

Gogogogogogogogogo.

Been trying to sleep today. It's a no go. Cars beeping horns every 5min. Hopefully the Casino will be busy tonight, we shall see.

 Come on Zenit , get it done

 о смотрители - дерьмо

I've £20 on Zenit to win in normal time at 5/4.

Despite my small wager on draw/Zenit, I'd like to see Rangers win :)

Not the worst game i've watched this season not much happening but rangers are defending well can they defend their way to the cup ? Just had pen shout for zenit would've very harsh imo gl rangers

Harsh ? Arm away from body in front of him and the ball smacks right in to it. Penalty.

Gl Silo. ;)

Sandy

Anti - Football zzzz

That was more of a pen for rangers not given the def moved his arm towards the ball whereas with pen in 1st arm his arm was already in mid air when it struck him on the arm. Really good effort this by rangers.

Rangers = George Graham's Arsenal.

Footballing justice woot!

victory 4 the game of football imo

Very good goal excellent through ball by arshavin oh  that shudve been game over

get in there ya beauty !!!! faf haha

Congrats to zenit expect to see arshavin in the prem next season

Russian Announcer > Scottish Announcer imo.

heheheehehee

[] At Least Rangers tried

[] Did scottish football proud

[ x ] multiple arrests to follow

Shhhhhhhhhhhhiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiipppppppp It!!

defo, pretty sure hes a 2p2er as well.

when they score he goes ''lets gogogogogogogogogogogogogogogoal''

Nice one. I have to imagine that was an anti bok though  ;smackedbottom;

Sandy

Ul Rangers.

Best team win though and that Arshavin looks a tasty player.

It started before the game finished - the big screen in the city centre broke during the game so the Rangers fans started on the police, obviously.

Fucking gutted I am, however will I sleep tonight?

Tangerine Day first game at Ibrox next season in support of Wee Dick :) :) :)

NURSE!!!  Ball from 2 yards, player trying to move arm away > ball from 5 yards arm stuck out? Really???

To give Rangers credit they battled well, but the better team won. It reminds me of England in Rugby World Cups (before they realised the mistake) when they played negative rugby all WC, then had to attack at the end and couldn't.

Best double swipe ever ;)

What goes BEEP! BEEP! BEEP!

The open top bus reversing back into Parks of Hamilton garage  ;yippee;

Hilarious watching that shower revert to the big punt for the last 15 minutes, vintage Rangers.

loooooooooooooooooooooooooooooool comparing world cup 2 a mickey mouse cup that rangers tried 2 draw in lolololol and failed obv

No, comparing 2 tournaments, probably wrong to compare a world game to a posh lad's game. I'd prefer Celtic to win the UEFA cup than Scotland winning the Rugby World Cup ;)

TELL ALL THE RANGERS FANS ( ;)) YE KNOW
NOVOS THE NEW SEBO
WITH A MINUTE TO GO
HE FLUFFED IT LIKE FLO
ITS GONNAE BE 3 IN ROW

 ;yippee;

 /:-| Play nice now.

 think u should stick 2 curling lol

You tried it? - fkin knackering!!

ill take u on hu at the next bash lol

hu curling for rolls?

btw i can get colin hendrys number if you need lessons rod..

Had to think about that one ;D

Scary likeness.

Anti-football on the pitch.
Anti-social off it.

Classic Rangers.

All the Rangers haters on the thread lol.

Don't see you posting like that when it's Spurs/Arsenal, Man U/Liverpool... Double Standards perhaps?

Nowt wrong with it, just made comment.

Didn't think it was meant badly Rod.

On a lighter note, someone was talking about Rangers 2008 DVD publications. Anyone got ideas for the soundtrack? I'll start :D

Heaven Knows I'm Miserable Now - The Smiths
Crash - The Primitives
Bring Your Daughter To The Slaughter - Iron Maiden
I Predict A Riot - The Kaiser Chiefs
Tears Of A Clown - Smokey Robinson and The Miracles
Orange Crush - REM

shib the monies :)

UL Rangers fans, sucks I know, gl in the league :)

Leningrad is known today as St Petersberg.

In the second world war, Leningrad held off the Hun for 872 days.

When the tables were finally turned, 64 years later, Rangers were only able to last 72 minutes.

Advice needed for Glasgow Bandit

For the first time ever, he has a winning ticket, and needs to know what part of the bookies you go to collect.

Is anyone able to help?

where is fergus? :(

Getting drunk, one might assume.

(http://es.uefa.com/multimediafiles/photo/competitions/uefacup/393076_mediumsquare.jpg)

Tony Parkes and Graham Roberts ... I was there that night,   ahhhhhhh the memories :)

Found him...

id rather be a gutted hun than a tim any day

cant really complain, they had us by the balls for 75 of the 90, and we were slightly on top for 15 minutes

though we did defend awesome, though defending only gets you so far, but im mighty proud of the this treble winning squad, so much heart, determination and guts.

and for the sum of thier parts, it was some effort. well done lads, you done us proud.

obv as a celtic fan i didnt want to see Rangers win, however..... great achievement to get there, should have been a bit more positive when 0-0 and went for it a bit, imo.

Awesome picture.

Love the box of Stella in the background.

Just home cant remember much but came on here to find out what the chanter is-had a great day regardless of the result. majority of the rangers fans and mancunians got on great but as usual a small minority let my club down-what kind of fvcking idiot takes a knife to a football match??? cant complain about result tho-still prouder than ever to get there.

also just heard about tommy burns- he was a good guy and my condolenses go out to him and his family.

did anyone see the scumy cowards trip up the officer and beat the shit out of him.   Probably the dirt over from east belfast

http://video.news.sky.com/skynews/video/?&videoSourceID=1316165&flashURL=/feeds/skynews/latest/flash/riot_harrison_150508_sens.flv

Sandy

disgrace

http://www.manchestercsc.com/Seville3.htm

"Spare a thought for my Mother and father in law who were in Seville but
never saw the game as they closed the gates at the park where the big screen
was.  He phoned on Thursday morning to see how we played i thought he was
winding me up.  He said they shut the gates and then they couldnt get into a
pub, they had walked 2hrs to get to the park then couldnt get a taxi back as
it was so busy.  He eventually got a taxi during extra time and heard porto
score on the radio, gutted doesnt even cover it."

People went to Seville missed the game and didn't cause trouble.

Sandy

Look you this isn't a time to be spouting your rangers vs Celtic nonsense ok. I am absolutely disgusted by those pictures although like I did say I never seen anything. Of course both sides of the old firm have an element of neds within their fanbase- as neds are a (unfortunate) part of scottish culture. Its a social problem of ours in scotland. by those pictures there should have been more than the 42 arrests that were made but 42 out of 100,000+ is not a bad number- I wholeheartedly think there should be 0 but that is just not going to happen with the social problems we have.

agreed, same old crap as ever.

yes the behaviour of some of the Rangers fans was disgusting, we can all agree on that. But why the hell do you feel the need to bring Celtic into it yet again? same old crap, it's boring, offensive and frankly damaging to the atmosphere on this forum.

Perhaps its because time and time again celtic and rangers are tarred with the same Old Firm brush and the idiots aka scotlands shame (which fair enough is not EVERY rangers supporter) ruin our club's and our nation's name in the eyes of the average football watcher..

Drawing a paralell to seville merely highlights the fact we were able to take 80,000+ fans to spain and cause no trouble, have no arrests and receive a uefa award as best fans that year.

if anyone had been on this thread saying 'sam old scottish/old firm fans, always causing trouble' then maybe it would have been a vialid defence against it. however to come onto a thread that contained nothing but good natured, civilised discussion up to that point is the same old trolling that creeps into every single one of these discussions.

A Celtic Fan stabbed another Celtic Fan in Seville, no?? Again I dont want to get drawn on this as I am absolutely disgusted by these supposed supporters

If you gather together 100,000 of any group of people, some of them are going to be twats.

FYP

Thank you for that contribution you have no idea how hilarious I find it  rotflmfao

Last week it was the quadruple (we're gonna win the lot you said), this week its the treble, the way you're running you'll mess up the league & scrape past QoS on pens  rotflmfao

Its a valid point IMO, Rangers fans need to start taking responsibilty for their actions, the rest of us just get tarred with the same brush. Its always, heavy handed policing, casuals, Chelsea fans, etc. etc. These hooligans have basically ruined it for the majority of decent Rangers fans of which there are many, its just embarrassing.

Gatso I'm not quite sure why you follow these threads so avidly when all they seem to do is wind you up, maybe a better idea to give them a bodyswerve  :)up

why not try giving it a rest and stop the oneupmanship eh?

because until the point that Sandy started trolling it was a sensible discussion. people shouldn't have to avoid threads because this might happen.

42 out of 100000+ is a small number i agree. However you say it's a social problem whereas i have brought you evidence that says these things can be done without the trouble. People travelling many many miles and not getting to see the game and it didn't cause the riot police to come out in force. It would be frustrating but that is clearly no excuse and those in/on the media should be ashamed for trying to use it as such.

1 isolated incident out of many thousands of people will happen most times but we are not talking of a person or small group of people here. If 100+ people were gathered causing trouble somewhere without the mass invasion of a city then it would be seen as a big group of troublemakers. (the person who stabbed  the celtic fan should have been hung imo as with all stabbers, shooters rapists etc)

Rangers fans are not all Scottish fans just as Leeds and Milwall fans are not all English fans.

I actually think that Celtic and Rangers will reach the latter stages more often as they both are competitive when it comes to the group stages of the champions league but are far from certainties to qualify but would be unlikely to be last. Once in the UEFA cup they become amongst the favourites for the tournament as the teams in the UEFA cup are of a much weaker standard. Within 10 years i'd expect 1 maybe even 2 finals between them.

Sandy

Bobby, if you are refering to the posts about the trouble its not oneupmanship, I just want to distance myself & my club as far from Rangers as possible, we are not 2 peas from the same pod as some seem to think. I am in no way taking any pleasure from the trouble from last night, as I said before its embarrassing.

ahhh I see, so your change of picture isnt meant as a dig at Rangers then?

Of course it is, I make no apology for the gloating & banter, I would have expected it back (& rightly so) if the result had gone the other way  :)up

yes I know, its all you guys ever do, its like a mental illness that you cant shake off. Why not infiltrate every forum going with the same old tosh eh....oops, thats right I forgot, you already do.

Why not take up a real hobby instead of spending all your waking hours and trying to diss each other??

oh I forgot,  :)

I agree it is completely embarrasing but this has nothing to do with, and has never been mentioned anything of Celtic so why bring it up? your sayin it is a valid point but its not-why on earth would a minority of knuckledragging rangers "fans" reflect on Celtic. Thats like Liverpool fans(only an example Baron) causing a riot then us coming out and saying they Manchester United fans are a lot of scumbags- this has NOTHING to do with Celtic so dont bring it up as I am offended by it. This is from manchesters police website:

A number of people were arrested during the disorder at Piccadilly. A number of people, including police officers, were injured as officers brought the disorder under control.

Some trouble has flared again and our priority was and remains public safety.

GMP would like to stress that the vast majority of supporters have behaved impeccably and came to Manchester clearly intent on enjoying the carnival atmosphere. The behaviour of supporters in the other two fan zones and in other parts of the city centre was excellent.

It is believed that more than 100,000 supporters travelled to Manchester without tickets, almost all of whom came with the intention of enjoying the occasion.

Banter is fine- the majoity of my mates are Celtic fans and we get a good giggle at slagging each other off but when it is as serious an issue as this is its not on to bring up something that is not needed

I'm almost scared to ask this but, is there ever much trouble with Scottish domestic fans nowadays as they travel round the country or are the lot who were involved last night boys who come out to kick off on big days out like a lot of England's hoolies used to be in the past?

I would say that NOT all the trouble was caused by scottish or irish rangers fans...... try a bit closer to home

Mate I didn't bring it up but I have had to endure Adrian Durham talking crap on talkSport earlier trying to lump us together thats why I think its a relevant point.

It'll be a brave soul who answers that before the last day of fixtures with Rangers at Aberdeen and Celtic at Dundee. The majority of those going to Aberdeen from Glasgow will pass through Dundee.

SPL = clowns.

There are many people who have been on tv and in other forms of media who said that the trouble was because the tv screen broke down and the frustration this caused started the trouble. All i did with that link is show that violence is not an automatic reaction to not seeing a game you have waited a lifetime to see. The same media are also referring to Scottish fans which is incorrect.


Sandy

yeah, far from the brightest bit of scheduling. do the SPL not take police advice like in England?

to make it worse its on a thursday evening

with it taking 3+ hours from glasgow to aberdeen and 2+hrs to dundee many people heading straight from work i can see massive trouble at the services on the way to and from the games

a lot of english posters on a few sites are getting up on thier high horses, damn cheek if you ask me.

oh and lets wait to see what happens next wednesday, surely a recipe for disaster

Perhaps in Spain or somewhere easily accessable. As far as i know you need a ticket to get a visa so it's not likely that 1000's will go to savour the atmosphere as they know they won't get in. Those with tickets are less likely to cause mass hysteria.

Sandy

possibly right there, but all it needs are some over-zelous coppers and a water cannon and the party starts

Russia have waived the visa requirement for this game. fans will be allowed into Russia as long as they have a match ticket.

It was a disgrace what the small section of Rangers "fans" did but I have to admit some parts were poorly organised/run by the police/security. We went to the Piccadilly fanzone about 2pm and it was rammed with supporters, it took 10 minutes to get in and 20 minutes to get out (we didn't stay long cos it was unbearable) People were pushing each other to get out and a few folk squared up. One guy even puked over his mates head cos there was no space around him to do it elsewhere and when we left they were still letting supporters in!! I hardly saw any police or security at all and there was no control, certainly at Piccadilly anyway.

Still it was a great day out, pants game though and I'm raging at Walter Smith for his tactics but all-in-all we've done well this season and are dead certs for the league title.

I'll have the popcorn out for next week's Champy League battles.

Yeh probably, Never know those russians might take kindly to the fact that one of their fans was stabbed in our country.
If it was an English team we'd have been banned from Europe. The Scots however are just good fun.

Nonsense and generalisations.

No team has been punished for what happens away from the ground, it is not within EUFA's remit.

You've just made the point so many are arguing against further up the thread - why should the Scots all be blamed for this?

It wasn't really that bad, they're just letting off a bit of steam, smashed a couple of things up then went home.

As for the old bill most folk want to beat em up at the best of times so its not surprising a couple of them got hammered after a Scottish team loses the uefa cup final.

Rangers were representing Scotland.

Hence all those Union Jacks.

As I said generalisations, the point about bannings still being nonsense, are we still debating?

I would say that Rangers were representing Rangers just as Celtic were representinf Celtic this year and Aberdeen, Aberdeen.

The only team to represent Scotland is Scotland

Yawn

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QjDy8fYJcuw&feature=related

The Scots don't stir it up in the Tottenham v Arsenal, the Liverpool v Man Utd, etc etc. Usually if there is a comment it's relevant and adds to the debate.

Simply put - if you don't contribute - stay off. Anything else starts to be trolling.

to expand on this so that the post actually has a point- I know of several large groups of English Rangers 'fans' who will have travelled up to Manchester for this game and let's say they're not shy of a little scrap. If any of this went off near them they will no doubt have been involved.
so to claim that this is a bad reflection on Scotland is wrong as those involved may not and in all probability were not all Scottish.

That is fantastic, a whole nation that spend most of their time trolling each other and you come up  with that Rod. Cmon mate try and at least see the full picture, the Rangers fans were to blame, not what the Daily Record tell the nation, it was the English trying to give Scots a bad name, it was Chelsea fans etc etc. It was the Scots acting like they were having a jolly up down in Blighty that are 100% to blame. To even think different is amazing.

Phil,

I consider you to be one of the most intelligent posters on blonde, but you are way of he mark here. It hurts me to defend rangers fans as i would prefer to bask in the glory of they f***ed it in manchester, we were the dogs nuts in seville blah blah blah, but, the simple truth is that Rangers have an element of followers from england, and in particular London, that are A. not interested in how Rangers perform on the park & B Like to travel to where they think they will get action. Manchester was perfect for them. Rangers have had 9 away games in europe this season, maybe they have had some arrests, maybe they haven't i dont follow them so dont know for sure, but they certainly haven't caused any problems to the extent of the manchester ones. YES there were scottish people arrested on wednesday, but believe me when i say that some of the trouble was organised, and was organised by ENGLISH Rangers 'fans'

I'm off to burn my laptop now that i have defended them.

Celtic,

Thanks for the compliment. There were an estimated 100k Rangers fans in Manchester, you can't seriously be saying that the trouble was actually caused by English people that turned up to cause trouble can you?

The Rangers fans caused the trouble, the Scots mentality seems to be how dare anyone blame us for the trouble and then reel off any amount of 'other' reasons, and the way the Scottish media have covered it is a disgrace tho it seems to have washed over a lot of people.

Yes Phil..... English people turned up in manchester, specifically to cause trouble. 100% They have also done it at Celtic games in England. ( i have personally witnessed it at Celtic games in Leicester, Chelsea & Tottenham) Some of the main trouble makers at the tottenham game were friends of mine) And they like to travel to look for & start trouble. FACT!!!

And yes there were scottish fans causing trouble too. Manchester & the police can't be blamed for Wednesday imo. Rangers fans English & Scottish and maybe other nationalities can be blamed however. Its NOt just a scottish problem i'm afraid.

LOL at the comments about English fans, and Chelsea - always the same when Rangers travel excuses are at the ready, its a well known fact that Rangers have avery nasty element within their support who go to the football to cause trouble.  

From the sectarian "macabre" dance of doing the bouncy in celebration of Robert Hammel's death to the vile racist chants, no doubt there are elements from Englandshire and Norn Ireland who play a part in stoking up the trouble but ultimately the vast majority of the trouble makers stem from Glasgow.

From what I am led to believe by friends I have in Manchester the Old Bill weren't heavy handed but actually relaxed, having travelled all over Europe with Celtic including going down South for many games I think the English Cops attitude in general is pretty cool, they know that if the take a heavy handed approach its more likely to kick off.

I genuinley feel sorry for the decent Rangers fans who travelled down only to support their team in what was one of the biggest games they willl ever play in, yeah it was a minority that caused the trouble, but its a sizeable minority.  Have a look at the pictures available on the web and you will see.

My cousin, a 33 year old female took down her Son 16, Daughter 13 and Niece 17 and was attacked by a fellow Rangers fan when she condemend some of the behaviour.  She phoned her man who was down with a group of his mates and he told her just to jump a taxi to Blackpool and never mind what it cost.  Part of me felt sorry for her, but another part of me didn't feel so sorry, stupid feckin c*w has jumped on this Rangers bandwagon in the last few months and thinks its all great fun she brought it on herself but regardless she never deserved to be attacked.

Below is an article from Graham Spiers - IMO the most respected Sports Journalist in Scotland.

From The TimesMay 16, 2008

A club with a poison at its core Graham Spiers

Graham Spiers
Utterly predictably, the fate of Rangers is once again to find excitement on the field marred by loutishness and delinquency off it. Losing the Uefa Cup final in Manchester on Wednesday night was no disgrace for Walter Smith or his team, whose very presence at the game was a triumph in itself. Beyond the stadium, however, before and after the match, events told their own story of how accursed Rangers remain as a club.

Willie Waddell, a memorable Rangers manager of the early 1970s, whose team brought the 1972 European Cup Winners’ Cup back to Glasgow, once aimed the following simmering words in the direction of his club’s supporters: “It is to these tikes, hooligans, louts and drunkards that I pinpoint my message. It is because of your gutter-rat behaviour that we are being publicly tarred and feathered like this.”

After that European triumph of 36 years ago, Rangers were banned by Uefa for the rioting of their fans, causing Waddell to implode with rage. The blight of Rangers - defined by loutish behaviour and bigoted chanting among groups of supporters – is proving a durable social poison. Here we are four decades on, still lamenting the seemingly endemic way in which these supporters behave like primitives.

The chaotic scenes in Manchester on Wednesday night - a Zenit fan stabbed, rioting Rangers fans, and 15 policemen getting injured - were frightening to behold. Moreover, the footage released yesterday and shown on Sky News, of hundreds of Rangers fans charging at police and setting upon one who stumbled to the ground, will make the already weary Ibrox hierarchy cringe.

Rangers have a repeated get-out for these episodes: the script always says this is “just a small minority” of fans. Moreover, as incident upon incident passes with the club’s supporters - at Villarreal in 2006, in Pamplona in 2007 and now in Manchester in 2008 - it is always “heavy-handed policing” and not the Rangers fans themselves who are said to be the blame.

Well, this is no small minority of Rangers supporters, and nor are the Greater Manchester Police renowned for their truncheon-wielding brutality. Instead, this is a football club with a poison somewhere at its core.

Such scenes will enrage those legions of decent Rangers supporters who love their club and follow it with impressive ardour. The postmatch eruptions were all the more depressing on Wednesday because the vast Rangers support gathered inside the City of Manchester Stadium had created a brilliant spectacle of colour and noise, including many who stayed on to applaud the Zenit St Petersburg players on their 2-0 triumph.

Other aspects, however, were familiarly ugly. During the day before the match, and certainly in the drunken aftermath, there was too much evidence of the sort of primitivism that enraged Waddell 36 years ago. In particular, bigoted or sectarian chanting remains an excruciating pastime for too many Rangers supporters, despite repeated pleas by the club to give these anthems a rest. For two days in Manchester, if you were based in the city centre as I was, you woke up to these dirges in the morning and you went to sleep to them at night.

Since being punished by Uefa two years ago for such antics by their supporters, Rangers have hired PR people, as well as Kenny Scott, a seasoned and former high-ranking Glasgow policeman, to try to gouge out the social disease which has clamped itself to the club. Scott, in particular, knew very well the inherent dangers of 100,000 Rangers fans descending upon Manchester for the Uefa Cup final.

The downside of Rangers reaching such a prestigious game in as close an area as the north of England was that it was an open invitation for the club’s less impressive followers to display their capacity for drinking, aggression, and sectarian abuse. I would go so far as to say that Scott, as head of security at Rangers, will have been cringeing at the very prospect from the moment the club qualified for the final.

Some spoke yesterday of another Uefa investigation of Rangers, but this surely won’t occur. It is almost impossible for Uefa, however much they care about the image of football, to weigh in on such affairs as public disorder in the city centres of Britain.

But who has the answer to this blight? Can anyone offer Rangers a cure for this ugly delinquency which afflicts a sizeable group of their supporters?

Until that cure is found, the once-proud name of Rangers FC will always trigger thoughts of yobbishness and bigotry. The club, to be blunt, is paying a heavy price for its century-long antipathy towards signing Catholic players, a policy which planted this bitter harvest.

Bobby you got me TOTALLY wrong there. Why not read earlier in the thread where Celtic fans are getting stick for making the point that we've not had this trouble, that we don't deserve tarring with the same brush. They are slated by English posters for petty old firm point scoring. Then someone else comes on and shock horror - tars us with the same brush. Can you not see that being a bit galling?

And I'm sorry if it offends you but you can guarantee posts from english football fans that only serve to show the posters complete lack of knowledge when scots football is being discussed. As a contrast when there are arguments about english football the scots posts usually are relevant.

Quite simply put if people don't like the arguments about scottish football - don't read them. Posts with "yawn" are not needed.

Sorry celtic - I'm not going to disagree with your facts, but if a club's fans make these friendships they need to police them too. The connections between the more extreme Rangers fans and the hooligan element of a few English teams is not a  new thing. The blame still lies with Rangers, sorry.

I've seen this with Celtic and the St Pauli, Croatia Zagreb & Ferencvaros fans, all of whom have turned up in fair numbers to watch Celtic in Europe, if they're at a european game to watch Celtic, it their Celtic friends' job to explain the standards expected (there was a tense stand-off at one game between the left wing St Pauli & the right wing Ferencvaros) that was a bit scary by all reports).

One other problem that both Celtic and Rangers face in europe are the 'stag-do' fans. The ones who go because they can misbehave. I'm not sure our good rep will last too long with the increasing amounts of them on the Celtic side.

Rod - How can Rangers fans police who supports them or decides to latch on to them? These people don't care about the team, all they care about is making their presence felt and spout their bile cause they think its clever.

Fair point Rod - I wont claim to know enough about the SPL to post regularly on those threads. But the point applies to almost everyone on here who talks about a league outside of their home league. And that does include some of the comments about the EPL I've read on this forum which are just complete nonsense and seem to be nothing more than an attempted dig at the English. We all do it mate.

Celtic, Rod,

You have made some good points and the use of the phrase Scots does read a little all encompassing but the crux of this is that of the trouble makers on Weds night a massive % were Scottish Rangers fans, I admit there will be an elemant of 'others' in there looking for trouble but it is such a small % in the grand scheme.

I used to watch Leeds Utd with a Norwegian mate, If he suddenly stood up and started hurling seats into the away end you wouldn't say'It was the Norwegians that started the trouble, we would say it was the Leeds fans'

Obv Rangers fans will have a big following in England too but at the end of the day they are again a small % of the total crowd on Weds night.

Glasgow Bandit made some good points, in 2002 when Rangers and Aberdeen fans kicked off in the ground at Aberdeen the Record and other rags shamefully claimed that it was English fans in Chelsea shirts that had started the trouble. As Glasgow pointed out it is the same old tired excuse instead of taking the responsibility and looking at the Rangers fans.

Before this looks like xenophobia the way that trouble at football grounds is treated these days by firstly the sports media and secondly the print media is getting the same as the Records approach.

When Liverpool fans were rushing the gates at the Champions League final last year all we read about afterwards was that the ground wasn't up to the correct standard and the policing was no good, but that doesn't change the fact that ticketless Liverpool fans were basically attacking turnstiles as a group working on the 'some of us will get in and some wont' mentality. That was barely mentioned by the Sports TV stations and the rags that in the same ownership as they have pumped wads of cash into English footy and treat it like its 'their product'.In no way will they cover it in a bad light and that is how the Scots media have covered Weds night, any excuses bar the obvious that Rangers fans were bang out of order.

The whole thing isn't at all surpising though is it. 100k people, 12 hours of drinking, team losing = trouble. It doesn't matter if they were scottish or english - its pretty inevitable.

I don't really understand why 100k people decided to desend on Manchester, apart from having to compete with a previous level set by their competitors. I think its in part because I've been spoilt by always being at the games but I have never really undestood people wanting to give themselves the worst position possible to actually watch a game of football, in search for 'atmosphere'. If they were such big fans they would be inside the stadium anyway(with the exception of 20-30k of regular attenders who couldnt get tickets).

I have actually fallen for it myself and quoted the 100k figure but you are right, Celtic said 80k went to Seville, so we gotta beat that, in 5 years time Celtic will be taking 250k to an away match in Basle coz Rangers said 200k went to Zagreb the year before.

Its just another example of the oneupmanship that exists.

The same way Celtic policed the Casuals - when they step out of line they are warned, then they get the crap kicked out of them.

I saw police standing applauding the Celtic support while they threw out every casual who were running for help after trying to start a fight at Hibs.

Maybe not legal - but if the police see that - they're happy enough.

If it's a Scots v English league argument then the decision on nonsense depends on who's deciding. In a general Spurs - Arsenal, Man U Liverpool I don't think the same amount of nonsense is posted, because the Scots football fans pay more attention to other leagues in general than the English IMHO. Whether that is due to the deficiencies in our leagues, a higher interest in football in general, or the flood of claims to the epl being the best in the world leading English fans to not look abroad as much I don't know. Probably a bit of all of them.

BTW there's some really knowledgeable English football fans on the board - I'm not including them in the above argument.

this has been proven to not be the case in the past.

like where?

u want me to state the obvious?

Yes... you didn't have 100k if your talking about Celtic. I also don't think that direct comparison works that well because they were in different locations - people tend to act differently depending on the culture they are surounded by...and their distance from home/comfort.

How do you know how many were there? - there are varying counts from 80K to 125K.

The rest is nonsense. Football hooligans affected by the culture? WTF?

BTW one of the screens failed in a fans zone in Seville - during the match.

fail to see why its not comparable. 85k or 100k still equals a large amount of people in the same area imo.

Rod the issue with the Celtic Casuals at Easter Road is only one example of the scarfers trying to police the support, in truth many of our scarfers are the ones that cause any trouble that kicks off when we are out on day trips or jolly's abroad and then leave it to the more militant element to clean it up, within that I don't just mean the casuals but politically minded Celtic Fans who where involved with AFA/RA and even the Republican element. 

I have been involved in a number of scraps with Celtic fans who where quite simply scum but as you know we have an element within our own support who won't accept racial abuse or don't take kindly to some of the 90 minute bigot brigade who want to give it large about God Blessing the Pope and all that nonsense.

As to Celtic, its easy to police yer own fans mate, all you do is get a hold of the scallies that look like they are going to start bother with other scarfers or the good people of wherever we are visting and give them a slap if they go too far.   

If lads want to go out and cause it with other lads then I don't have an issue with that and they can find places to have it off without involving the main element of the support or indeed the poor public going about their daily routine.

But please folks, lets not kid ourselves it wasn't the ICF or C18 that kicked this carnage off other day look at the video footage the ones causing the trouble where clowns decked out in blue with Union Jacks and Scarfs. 

As I said in my other post this is a problem Rangers have had for years, everywhere they go they cause trouble.

Remember two things:

They where the first British team to be banned from Europe for causing it in Barcelons in 1972
They managed to get themselves banned from England, the country many of them feel so patriotic about a number of years back also.

Add to this the carnage they caused in Barcelona, Pamplona and Villareal in recent years, also remember when they played an Irish team the home leg for the irish was moved to Tranmere because they feared from the visiting hordes.

Sandy

LOL, rubbish, okay then mate.

You used the word football hooligans - You think that 'riot' was full of hooligans?!! You'd probably have 10 to 20% of hooligan charters and the rest are tanked up people who let themselves get caught up in it and get involved. Its that 80 - 90% element that will definately be affected by culture of the country they are in - be it their reactions or the state that they allow themselves to get into in an unknown environment. (which includes more respect/fear for police and consequences of being arrested, greater feeling of representing country)

There is also the major issue that you need a passport to get to Seville from Glasgow - its a lot easier to control the hooligan percentage when you can take a passport from them to stop them getting somewhere.

Did this screen break for the whole matych or a couple of minutes? Were they able to see it at a different screen....You really can let Rangers have one over on you without having to be so defensive. The TV pictures that I have seen of Seville and Manchester make it pretty clear that there were more in Manchester.

Of course it could just be that Celtic fans as a collective are the best people in the world and are far superior to other people from the same city, same working class background - probably the same streets (?)!!!

I'd say there was a pretty material difference between 80 and 100k - but anyway its not the same area!! Compeltely different geography and so confined areas.

ok, i agree to disagree with u. bored with this thread now.

Just for the record I think its a far better achievemant to get 80k (or whatever quoted figure) to Seville than it is to get 100k of fans down the road to Manchester - whatever the pointless motivation to do so is.

In one!

absolutely rooky..... spot on imo ;)

Rooky, if you've nothing but conjecture and lack of knowledge - why keep arguing?

Conjecture would be a step ahead of what you have provided! In calling it conjecture you accept it is likely to be true so thank you for confirming I am most probably right!!

gladiators reaaaaaady............. handbags reaaaaaaaaady.......................

3

2

1

 ;starwars;

Not me, I don't fight with mod's. I just can't really grasp how unable to see things rationally people are who are close to anything Rangers/Celtic.

EXACTLY - anything we say is wrong automatically to you - that's why there's no point arguing with you - you've a closed mind.
 
Please, just for once, put your 'rational' debate about Celtic Rangers down with a fact or 2 and attempt to make some sense - because so far you've been highly unsuccessful at that.

We (all of us) do have a tendancy as footy fans to be inwards looking. This is just nature I guess. Being inwards looking makes us biased in turn a lot of the time. Just look at the London/southern press down here!

Being a Man U antagonist I was always one to point out that the German, Italian or Spanish leagues were better than ours whenever Man U were in charge over here. But even I cannot deny the strength of the EPL at present. Not everyone will agree with me but I'd need some argument right now to convince me otherwise. But over the past years you are certainly correct - we have always harped on about the EPL when it wasn't even in the top 2 leagues in Europe.

I think this is only on a par with some of the pro SPL stuff I've heard though. Some of the anti EPL stuff has no basis for fact or decent evidence at all. As I said before - we all do it.

It makes for great reading sometimes tho! :D

It is rather ironic, that guesses based on incomplete evidence, have led you to define the word conjecture incorrectly.

I don't even know what I have said that we are supposed to be arguing about for anything you have posted?

The fact that people who end up in riots aren't all hardened hooligans?
That people will act differently in different countries?
That it is easier to stop known hooligans getting the chance to start off riots when they need a passport to get to an event?

Not all at that anything'you' say is automatically wrong - I may have a different opinion sometimes, and when I do I'll at least give something to show why I have that opinion. Granted I don't have a dosier of independantly verified facts to support them, I can only go on what I see and hear. If we need more than that then this could be a very quiet place.


You're going to have to enlighten me here...

I'm going to need a few more torches

Rather than trying to be a clever dick why don't you just tell  me what your trying to say?

Not a generalisation, they were one of Scotland's representatives in the UEFA cup. They won there place in Europe from the SFA.

But English fans aren't don't know about football outside of England....generalisation?
Chin up.

The point about bannings being nonsense, we'll never know, i think if it was an English club UEFA would have said the Fans Park was run by UEFA and banned our clubs from Europe i can't prove it because it didn't happen.

Its dangerous to take this incident out of context with what goes on in lots of other countries tho Jose. These incidents happen all the time in say Italy and Spain but its because this happened on our own doorstep that it seems worse than others. The crux of it is the apparent inability of some to accept the responsibilty lies with the travelling Rangers fans because their automatic'must defend Scotland against the Auld enemy' instincts come rushing to the fore.

SIGH....

Right , in order....

So the Man U & Chelsea fans are representing Liverpool, Arsenal, Spurs etc? Of course you are correct Rangers were put forward by the SFA, but hey, if you want to look daft blaming all the scots, feel free.

Being pretty specific - there are some English fans on the board who make themselves look daft posting about things they don't know a lot about. You will see I've already said there are some very knowlegable fans who I exempt from those remarks.

Last point- you're wrong. Fanzone run by UEFA? - erm, no. UEFA have already said that. They've also said they have no remit to punish civil disorder away from the grounds. But be as paranoid as you want....

Rod,

There are an awful lot of Scots footy fans that post on here that know very little about football other than Rangers hate Celtic, Celtic hate Rangers, Scotland hate England, but it would be rude to say they cant post on the threads just because you or I say they know nothing wouldnt it?

Do you really think so? I may be biased but we get a lot of coverage of the EPL on TV & in the press, so I'd say most have a fair knowledge of it.

I can't ban anyone from posting on any thread just because they annoy me (the other Mods would soon put a halt to that), but it is aggravating when, earlier on this thread, Celtic fans were criticised for being defensive and disassociating themselves from the trouble, their reasoning that we'd be tarred with the same brush wasn't accepted. This was followed a few pages later by the very thing they said would happen, all of a sudden it was just 'scots'. That's when I joined in.

I'm maybe being a bit strong on here, but I've recently had 2 people I consider mates banned for a spell. They earned that themselves, but I get sick of the moaning whenever Scottish Football is discussed, all it does is exacerbate the problem, and get things heated up beyond what they need to be & I've (with the other Mods) got to clean up the resulting debris.

Still at least neither team are at Euro 2008 - that'll give it a rest for a wee while.

You are right, I used the term Scots in an unfair way but it was when the convo had turned to claiming that English fans had been involved so wasnt meant as It does look.

If it all kicks off in Moscow this Weds night it will be interesting to see how the English media cover any trouble. Its a strong fav that they again use the anyone is to blame but us tactic. If the reds and blues are kicking off in Red square and the police cant control them then it will be the police's fault for being undermanned/inexpeienced, if they use a decent amount of force and stop them fighting the police will have been heavy handed and bang out of order.

I don't doubt that there were some English fans involved as well (it's pretty clearly heard on some of the videos), but I can't see how that is any excuse at all as far as Rangers go. If you make these friendships and IF they kick off it's your job to stop them IMHO, not to join in. As it stands I think there were plenty of Rangers fans who kicked off as well from what I've been told.

I can see trouble on Wednesday & I think there will be a sizable amount of Russians looking for it as well, but if it does kick off then Man Utd/Chelsea will need to take the stick for it if they do.

In all these cases I have/ will have some sympathy for the fans who didn't get into bother, but unfortunately everyone gets the stigma associated with the trouble.

Rod i understand your frustrations. I sat and read the whole thread and if you look back to the first post i made it was in response to somebody posting about English fans. I notice that you didn't pick that poster up on that comment.
English teams caused trouble in the 80's and we were excluded from European tournaments but English people can't condemn the actions in Manchester because we're all represented by these clubs?
You allow one person to suggest that English fans cause trouble but when it is suggested that Rangers represent Scotland you take offence.

Sorry I missed it Jose, I just had a quick look for it there but didn't find it. I'll look through the thread again when my boss isn't lurking nearby ;)

From what I've seen there were some English involved in the trouble. That doesn't absolve Rangers at all as far as I'm concerned and the attempts to deflect the blame by the Scots press & Rangers are rather sad.

Found it & I get your point. I cut him a bit of slack because he was hurting.

I probably should have cut you the same as you were being defensive not offensive (which isn't how I read it the first time). Appologies.

Cheers and apologies if i've annoyed you in any way but as you say i was trying to be defensive.

this is turning into the lurvvvve thread now :-* :-* :-* :-* :-* :-* :-*

I better not post my opinion then ;)

 i would be interested kev.

You trying to get me into trouble Mr Calenti ? ;)

i think ur views wold be pure comedy. go on, you know u want to.....

No mate, sometimes it's better to keep your opinion to yourself ... trust me, thats a FACT.

I dont think people should watch English or Scottish football until the whole Structure of the game is changed.

We should all watch Dutch football   FACT!!

The home office has issued a safety warning for Manchester United fans
travelling to Moscow. Due to the poor areas which  are prevalent in the
city, they must be aware for the following:

Gun Crime,
Stabbings,
Violent Gangs,
Drunks
Pick Pockets

Fans are advised to take a Taxi to Manchester airport to avoid such
incidents and ensure a safe journey to Moscow.

as long as it's not the National side under V Basten, I agree :)