blonde poker forum

The "Met Murdering Scum" thread has been removed for now. It may be reinstated in the morning. Debate on the issue is fine, the abuse is not.

One Member has been Coolered overnight, a decision will be taken tomorrow, when more Mods are about, on what happens next.

Some folks just don't understand how to debate matters such as this in a mature way. There are other, far more suitable Forums, for those who don't know how to conduct a debate in a civil manner

To be quite honest Tony, I dont believe the thread added anything positive to the forum, Delete it IMHO

this please

the crap that was on that thread has no place here

Blatant have a look at 2+2 forum imo.

The debate is fine, it's an interesting case, but debate does not equal that sort of one-sided & abusive tosh that was being Posted by the OP.

Sometimes we can all be OTT about things that have effected us personally, I think that this might be the case with the OP.

I hope im wrong.

I always miss the threads that get taken down!

sigh..

+1

Thread permanently removed.

And OP hopefully re-instated after cooling down?

Under discussion.

Looking like OP was maybe drunk. Normally a very good-natured and funny contributor to the site.
Expressing his anger at the Met by calling them 'murdering scum' probably not the best tack, but then again neither was calling him a 't***', unprovoked, and not expecting retaliation.
Shame really cos the topic could have provided a nice discussion.

I called him a ***t and its a word I would use direct to Gary's face and he also knows this.

As for unprovoked?  I think the provocation was in Gary's initial post and subsequently his whole attitude to life in this country and these are discussions we have had offline in most cases.

I did do something constructive today though.

He might have very vehement views on certain things and express them rigidly at times like he did on here but I just don't think he's a t**t. The guy's heart is in the right place, and I know he really loves blondepoker, look at his blog.

What constructive thing did you do today? I had a very unconstructive day personally.

I never called him a T**T, I put ***T thats open to his interpretation.

lol I knew that was coming.

I got 3 disabled people jobs today and i managed not to crash my car.

 :)up wp on both. Must be very rewarding.

Did you hire them as bumpers for your car?

I tried not to laugh

[ ] I succeeded

mthnt

not quite Andrew, One of the candidates has severe aspergers, and we got him a job at a restaurant ( international chain )  Another chap has dyslexia & wanted to work in the retail industry, We have had to support a colour coding system to allow him to fulfil the job role as well as safeguard the longevity of the role for this person.

And the Final lady joined the local council as a Team leader.  her disability was of a physical nature.

Please say this is an epic Ironside spelling mistake or please tell us what it means

must try harder not to ... imo.

soz :(

For those that miss the point of those words, the OP wished a car crash upon Billy.

The thread will not be reinstated. If anyone wants to debate the matter of the Met's handling of the case, feel free to start a new thread.

Has Billy been running more pub quizzes?

Lol The RSG results are in soon!

correct

sorry i didnt find the joke funny

me neither to be honest, suprised from someone who is normally very funny & a nice guy the times i have met him, but that one was off target i'm afraid.

what's the difference tho between someone wishing someone to have a car crash & wishing someone to die in a fire????? It can't be a case of it's ok to wish someone to diagf cos they know each other surely?

I laughed at the bumper joke - think people are reading too much into it.  If Billy had said he'd found jobs for three women today, and Andrew had made the same crack, would it not have been funny then?  Can't see the difference myself from where I'm sitting, especially given who said it.

I don't know which side you're on Vinni with the diagf stuff, but I just don't get it at all - the lads seem to find it amusing among themselves though - perhaps I'm just too old.

*sigh*

Consider if Billy had instead said one of the following:

I got 3 teenagers jobs today and i managed not to crash my car.

I got 3 Russians jobs today and i managed not to crash my car.

I rescued 3 abandoned dogs today and i managed not to crash my car.

I'd have made the exact same comment because what the actual noun is in the first clause is irrelevant - the structure of the joke comes from the juxtaposition of the two clauses.

Cliff notes: what Claw said with added big words.

i'm not against any of it, im just asking whats the difference?

the shrewdies know each other & billy & gary know each other. Yet gary has been condemned for saying it imo.

(http://www.vayniac.com/images/badges/whosGary.gif)

As for Andrew's reply i understand what you are saying, i just don't like jokes that involve diasbled people. I understand the 'disabled' bit isn't the important part in the joke, i just don't find that kind of humour funny. Only my opinion of course, other that that you're an ok bloke. Keep up the otherwise good work.

I didn't see the thread but i can speak for the shrewdies and its always said as a laugh, it is never meant in anger.

Not quite the same in Gary's case IMHO, when Gary posted his comment it was not meant as far as i can see or taken for that matter in a lighthearted way,  I do believe this has more to do with Gary and I being at odds over an issue with a grimming and posting part of an IM conversation on another thread that has been taken out of context.  but that again is another story.

As for a permanent ban, I don't think its needed to be fair, Gary made his comment in the heat of the moment i accept that and i even accept the intention behind it. That's just Gary and he does not know any better.

And if you don't like jokes against disabled people you should never come to my office, 97% of the workforce in my company has a health condition or a disability, piss taking is rife and jokes are thick and banter filled, take it on the chin and grow a thick skin is the motto.

Away and count yer money !

Question answered, thank you, therefore Gary is now officially a tool for saying it.


And if you don't like jokes against disabled people you should never come to my office, 97% of the workforce in my company has a health condition or a disability, piss taking is rife and jokes are thick and banter filled, take it on the chin and grow a thick skin is the motto.

Jokes about disabled people by disabled people is different surely?

It's a joke about not crashing a car though.....


On the topic of the incident i just watched the video on the BBC website, obviously the copper is in the wrong but i dont think its right to say he is a murderer!

I don't see why,  they all have different disabilities, we have 1 fella in a wheelchair who gets a rubdown purely cos he cant reach the plates and cutlery or the tea urn in the kitchen so he takes it tight for doing his share of the tea making as well as his ridic paint job on his Wheelchair, now nicknamed hotwheels.

we have a woman who issues with her hip and she tries to run everywhere and fails at it, she gets it tight for running like an NCP carpark attendant,

 A few people with serious sensory disabilities and they get it tight for pretty much being blind.  Its all in good fun and jest no one takes it seriously wether you are with as disability or without.  Makes the days go faster tbh

Glasgow Bandit?

yes

i get same rub down and i dont care

disabled folk joking about each other no harm

but i didnt find the joke funny and wouldnt of if it was disabled people or any other people

thanks for that post billy, it's quite refreshing to see that it's still possible to act in a normal way, taking the piss out of mates/colleagues without someone throwing a strop and threatening to sue. sadly getting rarer with today's crappy pc attitudes

Anyone heard the 1 about the chinese, diasabled, homosexual, muslim, immigrant who grims for a living,who entered into a civil partnership with a Gypsie catholic priest who represented plaid cymru in the welsh assembly?

Yeah, I agree with Iron 100%. The joke wasn't funny at all.

Andrew can talk all he likes about the juxtaposition of the two clauses being the backbone of the joke, but I would strongly suggest either an Irishman, a nun, or some kind of animal walking into a pub as the backbone. That would make for a funnier joke imo.

Yay bigoted anti-Irish jokes FTW.

I'm all for having a laugh but there's a tim and a place for everything

Groan.....................................................

And I aint even posting a link to it cos it is offensive but if you youtube search 'world's most offensive joke' it shows the channel 4 program that looked at the different categories in a pretty offensive but enlightening way.  They did disability, Diana, 9/11, race, the holocaust, the tsunami and islam. Islam won.
The disability one touches on some of the stuff discussed here.

to be fair if the guy didn't have a yellow jacket on he would/should be getting done for murder.

no he wouldnt he didnt actually use disabled people as bumpers

Surely while pushing him is pretty awful, it is far from murder?

If my understanding of murder is correct your post suggests this officer's intention was to kill the guy.  

well he died from it, if it was a normal person on the street who pushed him u know he will go to trial for at least manslaughter, so should the copper.

i don't know the officer maybe it was maybe it wasn't,  what do you think?

I think there's no point in me saying any more on the topic to be honest.

probably not

I think it is more than manslaughter, his aim was to hurt him and to knock him to the ground, even with no vulnerability you know there is a chance you can cause anyone serious harm. Add to that the fact the guy is just walking away from you with his hands in his pockets, minding his own business, and you are an officer of the law. It is horrendous. It looks like the culprit has come forward now at last. I hope he gets sent down for a long time if guilty, possibly hard to prove the link to the death though. The damage it does to the image of the police is quite great.
Given the peaceful state of the victim at time of attack, it's a wonder not one officer stepped out to stop the offender or challenge him on it.

i would imagine it would not be that difficult to link it to the death of this gentleman.  The IPCC is going to investigate if this incident contributed to his death not more than 5 minutes after the incident.  We wait for the findings!

Now do something else constructive and give us some RSQ questions

orly?

interesting that earlier in the evening he was photographed protesting against the police,

Link?

Red Top paper dunno if its online

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/article2368505.ece (http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/article2368505.ece)

not as many pics as in the paper

That's not how I interpreted the image even in the video.

It takes a bit of reading between the lines, but

my impression was that the police were herding protesters, this guy was deliberately getting in their way to slow them down and block them.
EDIT: ie stop them doing their job

There's no doubt the police officer was in the wrong, but my impression was he just got impatient with this guys tactics and stepped out of line to push him 'out of the way' rather than push him over.

You can achieve a lot with selective editing - it may be that the policeman just fancied hurting someone but generally speaking most people don't 'accidentally' get caught up in a protest.

"How can the officer then tell a kid to obey the law, when he rushes a man from behind?"

Kids aren't afraid of the law because everytime something happens the police are highlighted as have so few powers and have to treat people on a different level to which they are treated. It's a bit like footballers in that regard. The crowd can abuse them all day but if the player flick a v then all hell breaks loose.

Sandy

So is the Bandit shipped onto the same boat as Fergus4life?

Not necessarily.

It's better to take a little time over such decisions, let the dust settle. The picture often looks different after some time to reflect.

But Fergus won't be returning. Ever.

I agree with this post.



That is all.

...though if Mr G Bandit keeps opening new blonde Accounts under new aliases, it won't help his cause one bit. Does he really think we won't spot them? He's wrong, not Wright. ;)

never saw the thread but cant believe bandit got banned over a spat with billy heat of moment etc etc but new acc? bandit ffs lol

What will it take to get them both back?

lol

It's standard practice after a red card, it usually takes about 2 minutes to suss. But they always give it a spin. A note to the Mods would be far more effective.

What would it take for Fergus to repay his debts?

I don't see him ever being welcomed back.

Why on earth does anyone think fergus should ever be given back his posting privileges on this site?  I can only assume those calling for fergus to be reinstated are deliberately trolling or having a laugh.  I mean, seriously, what did he bring to the forum?  Since he left he still owes money to a number of decent people and has written some pretty nasty stuff about blonde members (including some of those from whom he stole) on his 'blog'.  Why some people seem to want to make out that the guy is some kind of hero I don't understand.

Now I'm annoyed with myself for taking the bait.  gg trolls.

hmm looks like im a troller then lol

he paid back most of the glasgow scots so he could play live without worryin bout gettin his ear clipped. I doubt the rest will be so lucky

As for Bandit, I saw the thread and he was defo heated, and probably deserved his time in the hole, but its Glasgowbandit, the greatest poster in the history of the internet!! It would be a tragedy for him to remain banned!

Unedited footage:

YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HECMVdl-9SQ

"this guy was deliberately getting in their way to slow them down and block them"?

"stepped out of line to push him 'out of the way rather than push him over."?

Not sure that's my interpretation from the footage.

He paid back a lot of it.

Cmon guys, if the Mint casino can forgive him and unban him then surely anyone can?

See Totalise's Post.

Quit on it, he ain't returning. End of.

I think fergus should be unbanned whenever:

a) there is an old firm game on
b) scotland play england in some sporting event
c) celtic lose an important european game
d) rangers win an important european game

I guess my interpretation is different than yours. 

Another heated debate on the way?  I wonder if we can get the 'Thread Temporarily Removed.......' Thread removed.

It said on the radio that this guy was wearing a Millwall shirt and was absolutely off his tits?

Can anyone confirm/deny?

Haha, the guy sure was walking home from work. Unless of course he works at the pub. He sounded off out of his tree, and was definitely walking slow to wind up the police.

Those protests were ridiculous and the police dealt with the whole of them well IMO. The guy says how he was sitting there talking to the police after being pushed over, and that the police don't help! He was far from talking, we cannot hear what he says sadly due to his slurring. He can't help himself up which kinda tells you he is off his head!

Ok, his death is sad and unwanted. But to instantly blame it on police that were keeping the protests/riots under as much control as possible is wrong. What about the police that were attacked by other protesters? They just have to shake it off and go to work the next morning because they didn't end up dieing this time..

pro police will confirm this
anti police will deny this

Those that blame the police won't change their mind. Those like me that blame the rioters for making it necessary to have riot police won't change their mind (including me) so may be a pointless debate. I had posted well before G20 my views on these rioters and their pointless violence.
The truth is probably that the guy had a serious health condition and didn't take much for him to have a heart attack. RIP.

Not really sure how you can interpret this in a good way TBH.

In the same way that when there are protests, there are always trouble makers that join in just for s scrap.....Whenever the police break out the riot gear, some of the more vicious, nasty piece of work coppers use it as an excuse to blatantly batter anyone that gets in their way.

In this incident, Mr Tomlinson is almost certianly being a drunken pain in the ass to the coppers, but the copper has no excuse for the batton to the back of the legs and the very forceful shove in the back of a guy with hands in his pockets, walking away with his back to the copper.

Does the copper deserve to face man slaughter charges? No
Common assault or similar charges and formal internal disciplinary? Yes

I think some of them might change their mind if an opera singer was to visit their house and sing a version of Pavarotti's cantando la canción de Figaro, but change the words figaro for video.

Or if they were to actually watch the video.

The walking home from work line is a bit suss, but the images speak for themselves.

Manslaughter comprehension fail

Have to disagree I'm afraid. Nothing I've seen would justify a charge of manslaughter (or culpable homicide as we call it up here). Whether the copper deserves to be charged with that is an entirely different matter.

This.

In no way does that push justify a manslaughter charge.

[ ] They can prove he died from that/because of that push.


The push looks a bit much ..but the guy was deliberately bing a pain the arse...you can see that from the video...If riot police with dogs start showing up and move towards a group of protesters whilst telling you to get out of the way...anyone who is not being a tosser moves out of the way a fair bit faster. An generally riot olice tend not to feck about when people get in the way. "Excuse me Sir, we've already told you twice to move...could you now saunter over a bit faster?", doesn't work,"Get out the way you fecking halfwit!" and a little shove however, does.

I disagree, there is now way you can say that pushing someone over warrants a manslaughter charge if they unexpectedly die, but the aggressive shove and batton to the back of the legs was waaaaay OTT for the situation.

If he was p1ssed and being a pain, arrest him for drunk and dissorderly and be done with it.

Just aggresive bullying, which ever way you dress it up.

lol @ that being the unedited version.

It was edited because it starts too late - ducy?

He had a crowd of police including a police dog right behind him, he was clearly part of the protest and not just on his way home, otherwise he would have moved.

As has been said above the police officer is almost certainly guilty of misconduct.

But if you think that's evidence of manslaughter - then you must think the man himself was guilty of suicide, after all there have been plenty of eye witness accounts saying he was drinking all day. I'm pretty sure that would have more of an effect on a heart condition than being pushed over.


And echoing what Boldie says - and what I said earlier - you don't 'accidentally' get caught up in a riot or a protest.

I've only just got round to watching the video, and I concur with the hirsuite german midget and the cross-dressing greyhound owner.

LoL

this is my stance on this also. Its very bad that the chap died, but a sure fire way to avoid trouble is to not be there.

This

Mass civil liberties and manslaughter comprehension fail.

I comprehend both perfectly well tyvm - my view on this case is based on what I saw in the video.  I appreciate if I'd been there and seen the whole picture that might be different.

Vid is enough for me. Seems perfectly clear that a swift baton strike to the back of the legs followed by a lunging shove to someone with their back to me, with their hands in their pockets, is going to cause them to fall over. Enough cases already of people falling to the ground having been punched etc and striking their heads that have turned into manslaughter cases. With the hands in the pockets, most reasonable people would expect the victim to fall to the ground, possibly sustaining very serious injuries by striking their head. Anyone who looks at the footage and interprets the shove as an attempt to cajole him or move him along; or interprets the man as 'blocking the path of the policemen', should have gone to Specsavers, imo.
There is a good CCTV trail of the victim now, appears that he was on his way home from work.
The victim died shortly afterwards, it may be hard to prove in court that the officer shoving him to the ground caused the stress/dislodged the thrombus that led to his heart attack 5 minutes later, but I think it's pretty likely that this was the cause. The police officer wanting to cause his death is not a prerequisite for a manslaughter charge. It's not even a prerequisite for a murder charge...

Why does the push in no way justify a manslaughter charge? How can they not prove that he died from that/because of that push?

 5c.
I think all the drinking he did is probably a more likely cause.

And manslaughter charges after people being pushed over tend to be more along the lines of, they hit their head and bled out rather than they were pushed over and were too wasted to stand up - and then a bit later had a heart attack.

we all understand this.  if the guy had, say, banged his head, after being pushed and later died as a result of that injury, then I would agree with you - think it would be difficult to prove that caused a heart attack though.  If it was proved that the drink was the culprit who do we look to press charges on then?  Don't have time to write my full views as we're off for the weekend any minute, but, as I've said, I've not seen anything other than the one piece of video footage - if I looked at all the evidence i may well reach a different conclusion.

Are you sure he'd been drinking? All the reports I've read say he was on his way home from work and that the man had nine kids/four young daughters. Where does all this drink and drugs talk come from?

This is no excuse for getting hit but he looked pissed, he was walking like he was pissed and reports in todays papers saying he was pissed.

YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gim617UBqcM
.

Wow, 8 pages about this guy's tragic death, everyone's view set in stone, for or against, with few seeming to be able to grasp the difference between "Murder" & "Manslaughter", & all this on a poker forum. Good stuff, really.

I really hope there is an equally extreme reaction & outcry of protest next time a serving police officer or Serviceman/woman is killed in the line of duty.

Well there will definately be an extensive post mortem and we'll soon know the facts about exactly how boozy he was.

If there is a link between the vicious attack and the death, I'd like to see the policeman who did this spend some time inside. My advice to him if this day of justice comes is not to put his hands in his pockets.

4 pages on this guy's tragic death, the other 4 are about the somewhat less tragic bannning of Glasgow Bandit.

The debate is mostly about what constitutes manslaughter and assault, murder hasn't really come into it.

If the police routinely deal with incidents where a member of the public is killed with the same level of attention and manpower as when one of their own is killed then your final paragraph has some relevance. If this is not the case (as is understandable) then it's right and proper for us (as members of the public) to look after our own a little too.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1168315/G20-policeman-suspended-new-pictures-reveal-victims-drunken-clash-officers-shortly-collapsed.html

Every time anybody is killed by the police there is an investigation.

From the ones I've seen then, if anything, the investigations where the police themselves are killed tend to be less rigorous.

Well, yes, it has.

The reason the (now excellent) debate began so badly was due to the aggression & title of the original Thread - "Met - Murdering Scum".

Is the Bandit Banned forever??? surely a small sin bin for a while and warning worthy???

lol, Gary's gig as headline writer for the daily mail didn't last too long.

See my various replies on P5 of this thread.

He remains, currently, Banned, for a period not yet deciided, & the Duplicate Account he subsequently opened in a forlorn attempt to sneak under the radar has been perma-Banned.

Bandit permaban

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EW0Sifakba4

Lol.

"......have you heard of Harry Lonsdale - otherwise known as 'ack you up with a 'atchet 'arry?"........

Would it be an 'atchet?

VERY good question. It certainly scans better.

So, it's "a hatchet", & "an 'atchet", yes?

I'm sure Bronson would know.

Oh really? Maybe the investigations are more vigorous, but the cops all seem to queue up to cover for eachother & in the end no-one is punished beyond demotion & suspension. Not many  killings of police end with no-one to blame.

Is that because usually because when a police officer is killed there is someone to blame?

And when a member of public is killed there's no-one to blame?

If I'd assaulted someone & he'd had a heart attack in the aftermath I'd be facing man-slaughter/culpable homicide charges right now. The onus would be on me to claim self-defense whatever. But, as usual, the police will smear the name of the guy accuse him of being drunk/violent (there are alegedly witnesses to him being hit on the head with a baton previously, could he be concussed?)

The Brasillian shot was running away said the police to the press - then the CCTV shows he wasn't. He seemed to be setting off a bomb, erm the witnesses said he didn't.

If the cops act like criminals covering their own wrongdoings then no wonder no one trusts them. They began the propoganda campaign about the protests well in advance to justify their tactics, unfortunately too many believe them.

If a civilian were to attack and push a police officer to the ground and they died shortly after, would there even be a discussion?  They would be insta locked up and the key thrown away.

I dont have much of an opinion on this specific incident as I havent read any articles on it and only just watched the video however I do feel that the police as a whole act like in a lot of situations they are above the law and will take advantage and abuse their position.

If this incident wasnt caught on camera this officers actions would never be questioned and any public complaints dismissed.

Didn't say that.  I wasn't talking about a member of the public being killed.  I was referring to when a police officer is killed 'in the line of duty' there's often someone to blame.  It's the nature of the role.  The same way that gravity is probably a key factor in accidents at work involving steeplejacks or window cleaners.

I didn't say if I agreed or disagreed with the other points - I was merely focusing on one specific point.

There always seem to be less witnesses when something happens to a police officer than there are when a member of public has something happen to them.

Sandy

"Rangers fans" attack on a police officer in Manchester didn't get many insta lock ups as i recall as an example (not of death though)

Sandy

Who kills a copper when people are looking? That's just bad buisness that is.

Interesting development


 Family reaction

 Mr Tomlinson's step-son, said "First we were told that there had been no contact with the police, then we were told that he died of a heart attack.

Mr Tomlinson's step son says he hopes the "full truth will come out in the end"

"Now we know that he was violently assaulted by a police officer and died from internal bleeding. As time goes on we hope that the full truth about how Ian died will be made known."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/8004222.stm

just heard that on the news - certainly puts a different slant on things.

But

"The statement concluded that both the opinions remained provisional and subject to further investigations and tests."

i.e. it may have been internal haemorrhaging caused by assault and it may have still been a death by natural causes.

The 2nd coroner - instructed by the prosecution - is of the opinion that it was caused by the assault
the 1st coroner was of the opinion that it was natural causes

Both opinions are still provisional and possible whatever way the news chooses to report it.

The second post mortem was requested by IPCC, and Tomlinson's family. Prosecutions are made by CPS. Need to read the article with an open mind?

Is there evidence he was assaulted by the police, before the shoving incident?

I didn't realise post-mortems were conducted on a 'best two out of three' basis.

On a side note, is Gary Banned for good, or is he back yet, not seen him in a while?

gfg

"I know what you're thinking: did he fire six shots or only five? Well, to tell you the truth, in all this excitement I kinda lost track myself but, being as this is a .44 Magnum, the most powerful handgun in the world, you've got to ask yourself one question: do I feel lucky? Well, do you punk?"

"Look officer, I'm not even a protester, I'm just trying to get to Tesco for a sandwich."

Sandy