blonde poker forum

havnt been playing long, no real history to speak of


Dealt to dousche [Jd Tc]
d0dd087 posts the small blind of $2
gadab posts the big blind of $4
Smoothie1 folds.
jmg180 calls $4.
dinodini folds.
dousche calls $4.
d0dd087 calls $2.
gadab checks.
Dealing Flop [Ts Jc 9s]
d0dd087 bets $16.
gadab folds.
jmg180 folds.
dousche raises to $48.
d0dd087 raises to $140.

dousche???

If your deep pass

oops, effective stacks ~400

This deep, I guess you have to pass. You can't flat call, and if you raise you're only more chips if you're crushed (I guess an uber draw like KJss might still get it in, but obv that has lots of equity against you anyway)

Did you over-limp the button? I'd raise pre if I'm reading that right.

yeah i did, i mix it up between limping and raising

Lol its not a good idea to raise the flop if u dont know what u are gonna do if he 3 bets

Thank god.

booo. I read op last night and thought I'd wait and see what new way flushy could find to say this but dubai stepped in and took away the chance

limping is ok.

raise for value on flop, then fold when he 3 bets

easy

wp imo

limping is not gr8, iso that monkey.

raise folding is horrible imo.

standard fispump allin. only 100bb deep with the effective nuts on a super wet board.

limped pot you think he is 3 betting anything other than a str8 here? seems very very unlikely to me

Raise/folding you win the maximum when you are ahead, and make all draws pay, thus often winning a big pot. When beat its pretty obvious, as he doesnt 3 bet a worse 2 pair on this board in a LIMPED pot.

You should stack off super super tight for 100bb in a limped pot, otherwise its just spew.

All this is ofcourse providing the guy who 3 bet isnt a fish who has no idea.

Agree raising pre is better, limping isnt a mistake though really, esp is blinds are aggro

This is great as long as he never 3bets a draw

Oops, I thought you meant 400bbs deep by this, I guess that was kinda stupid as when are you ever 400bbs deep.

100bbs deep, I lean more towards Alex's thinking. Because now when you shove, you do get it in against a lot more draws than just uberdraws.

raising is best, utg limper is probably bad, if there are aggro blinds its not like they are not gonna raise if we limp..... we take control of the hand, WE HAVE THE BUTTON and we win this pot so often by cbetting that we instantly turn a profit. Limping really is a big leak here imo (unless ep limper is nittag/tightfish who limp re-raises a lot ofc).

All that stuff about "not going broke in a limped pot", should stack off v tight etcetc. Each to their own and im enjoying this debate but its abs bollocks imo. If anything ppl do MORE funky shit in limped pots at midstakes because there is more levelling going on.

 think this this range is reasonable.

Text results appended to pokerstove.txt

 111,870  games     0.031 secs     3,608,709  games/sec

Board: Jc Ts 9s
Dead: 

   equity    win    tie          pots won    pots tied   
Hand 0:    55.262%     53.93%    01.33%             60329         1493.00   { JdTc }
Hand 1:    44.738%     43.40%    01.33%             48555         1493.00   { 88+, AsKs, AhQh, AsQs, AsJs, As8s, Ac7c, As7s, As6s, As5s, KJs+, Ks8s, Ks7s, Q9s+, Js8s, T8s+, AJo, KJo+, Q9o+, T8o+ }


---

i didnt allow any air (which is always a non-zero number) and think this is reasonable. raise/folding is fine, but on a board this wet there are sooooo many combos that you are crushing/flipping versus, that folding to a b3/3b is absolutely tez. And if ur not happy getting the money in here, you need a damn good reason (like villain is a supernit and never takes this line with draws).

some of these are really silly alex.  imo villain has str8 or big draw.  I don't think folding vs an unknown is a big mistake.

agreed. A7cc was a misclick.

u think villain doesnt raise pre w jj+, ak/aqs?

he limped pre in ep, he is super abnormal and could have anything.

[  ]    [ x ]

Which i doubt he would do in a limped pot

you are misreading the hand. the villain in this hand is the sb. the ep limper folded

The sb opens into 3 players, you show massive strength raising, and then he raises back. thats huge strength.

Its a limped pot, its 4 way, and we have nowhere near the nuts.

He either has a straight (which always 3 bets flop), or he has a big big draw (like  Qs 2s, which doesnt always 3 bet the flop anyway)

raise/fold in position seems perfect. Win the max/lose the least most of the time.

I agree raising pre is surely better than limping, but i dont think limping is horrible

He either has us crushed or is on a draw. There are only 2 likely hands beating us just now (78,Q8) though. The sets raise pre and KQ is getting raised by most players. Still possible but less likely.

There are absolutely loads of draws. And we have 4 outs against the majority of his range.

As we are way more likely to be up against a draw I think this is a shove unless he is a nit and we know he doesn't semi-bluff with 89o and the like.

If really pushed I might go for:

Board: Ts 9s Jc
Dead: 

   equity    win    tie          pots won    pots tied   
Hand 0:    43.542%     40.41%    03.13%             45610         3531.00   { JdTc }
Hand 1:    56.458%     53.33%    03.13%             60188         3531.00   { JJ-88, AJs, As8s, As7s, KQs, KsJs, Q8s+, J9s+, T9s, 87s, AJo, KQo, Q8o+, J9o+, T9o, 87o }



but I dont think he 3 bets all of these.  We are about breakeven against this range, so I can't see that folding is bad.

Surely calling is the best, what hand calls our 2 bet?

aha k, tougher.

alrighty mikey,

tough one. i think pre flop is good to limp occasionally, as long as you do raise in this spot more often.

we have talked about this kind of spot on the flop before, and i know we do differ here. i like to flat and raise a blank turn. as others have said its just too tough if you raise and he 3bets. obviously there are a lot of turns you dont want to see, but i guess thats the big downside of flatting

as played, i would fold, but i am a nit and i would guess you are more likely to make the hero-shove here?

unlucky yesterday mate, gutted to see the sudden busto.

back in notts on sunday, midday or so, you still about? gotta move all my stuff to the new house so will be about anyway

You don't think he raises Qxss or 8xss ? Also, it is very unlikely he has a AKss,AQss,AJss or a set so I don't believe this is accurate. I have came round to the idea that calling is best here.

where are ak and aq in the range i quoted? 

You can argue about the range and drop some hands and add in others, but this is never going to be a great spot.

Its clearly not the greatest of spots. The question is whether or not folding here is a mistake. To accurately answer we really need to know more about villain but against an unknown I'd say it probably was as he is drawing here way more than he has flopped a straight.

mess about with stove m8 - you will find it very hard to get a realistic range that makes folding much of a mistake if any. 

The problem with using poker stove for this "m8" ;-) is that you are assigning equal probabilities to him having 78o, JJ, JQo, AJ and Q2ss which is simply not the case.

The other thing to take into consideration is if the turn is a blank (more than half the deck) then we are way ahead of his range and that is why I believe calling is correct here and folding is a mistake.