blonde poker forum

Wanted general consensus on this. Live mixed game, pleasant, omaha. Ugt limps, mp calls, co calls, button calls, utg jams, mp calls, CO folds, button calls allin.

3 way to flop. Utg makes the wheel to scoop showing AA25ss after Button shows top set and mucks. Mp goes to muck also and CO asks to see his cards, Mp pushes into muck and CO  forcibly takes the cards before they hit the muck and looks.

Thoughts on his entitlement to see the hand having folded before showdown and whether if the dealer is about to muck the losing hand he can forcibly retrieve.

Does it make a difference if anyone is winning or losing?

it's no pleasant no more.

KITN for CO obv.

Certainly make no difference at all.

Generally different casinos have different rules for this sort of thing but I would have thought that once cards are in the muck the guy who reached in and flipped them over should have his arms cut off.

If I was MP I'd still be hitting CO now.

cash game should only ever retrieve card if you are accusing 2 players of cheating you and should only be down by the card room super

Yes, everyone dealt into the hand has a right to request to see cards eligible to participate in showdown.

Any player handling another players cards is unnacceptable. If I was running the game then this person would be removed from it.

What the hell is the dealer doing during all of this? If someone requests to see cards then they should either show them or call the floor. Also, the player shouldn't be able to muck his cards as the dealer should be protecting the muck pile in front of him.


Similar one I heard about in DTD last weekend. Two people got to showdown, one showed, the other said it was good and folded his hand. The winning player then asked to see the cards of his opponent. The dealer asked the other player if he wanted to show and he said no. The dealer then mucked the cards without showing. As much as I approve of this behaviour (I think asking to see someones hand when they don't want to show is quite scummy) I don't think it's the correct procedure.

This

touch my hand you might not have yours much longer.

I don't care what the rules say, if I lose at showdown in a cash game I expect to be able to muck quietly. I'll never ask to see anyone elses hand in this scenario so don't expect it the other way.

if you thought that 2 mates had colluded against you in a pot would you not expect to see there hands ?

Name & shame but I reckon I could guess

Bit different situation though. Alex mentioned nothing of collusion. If I suspected this I'd tell the dealer or floorperson and ask them to rule on the hands.

You don't touch someone else's stack. You don't touch someone else's cards. The end.

thats something that really annoys me

people knocking someones stack over

really pisses me off that i feel like hitting people

i get into arguments all the time about procedure of showing down hands. i know the rules so i stick to them. in vegas i had a guy who i knew wouldnt show his hand down at showdown if i showed the winner and i knew i had right to see his hand 1st . trouble was people sed i was taking the piss because i had the stone cold steve austin(nuts) i really wanted to see his hand. any thoughts is it a slowroll or am i just exploiting the rule of i have the right to see his hand 1st at showdown. very grey area i thought at time but i wouldnt expect to see his hand after i show down what i expect to be a winner.    

Thread reminds me of when I first started playing cash games online years ago. When making a bad call i.e calling down QQ on a AKKJ board to be shown AA I'd say 'sick - had JJ' in the chatbox. This was until one guy creepily got my hand right every time, he'd say things like 'You played it more like Queens than Jacks', pwning me over in pots and in lies to the point where I feel like a lot more of a dousche than I actually am. I almost quit playing thinking that my opposition was incredible to have such accurate hand reading until I downloaded flash player for something else and discovered what hand history button was a few weeks later!

 rotflmfao

I'm with andrew t.

Why am I banned from gala?

Pretty outragous behaviour imo.  I know you're following the rules but insisting that someone else shows down 1st when you have the nuts is as good as demanding a losing hand be turned over.  If you have the nuts why nut just show, claim the pot and it doesnt matter what he had.

totally disagree, you should not have to insist the losing hand is turned over as that hand should be tabled without you having to ask.

If you are called then simply turn your hand over without delay!!

If we are talking about cash games here it is bad etiquette to ask to see a losing hand, Id say its also bad etiquette to not declare the nuts so that you can see your opponents losing hand.

If its a tournament Id still insta turn the nuts but if you want to see his hand so bad ask to see it.

it always matters what they have. it was a wsop event and when im playin at a decent level of what i presumed to be thinking players il take any edge i get . makes no difference to me if it gets under there skin im not there to make friends i was there chasing dreams and in my dreams i really dont care if i upset anyone who is there to get in my way.

Fair enough, I thought you were meaning in cash games

Work on having more pleasant dreams imo

POTW

You do know that ppl carry guns in the US?

If you make a habit of slow-rolling the nuts, its just a matter of time till you do it to the wrong person.

I know of a guy who got slashed across his face for using table talk to get his opponent to call.

so are you suggesting that playings shouldn't use table talk?

Personally I think that people should have to show cards at showdown, if asked by other player(s) still in the hand at showdown

OK, call me dumb here......

But I don't get why it is bad etiquette to request to see called hands.

Now, I don't play live cash so this is not about tilting people, just wondering why my logic doesn't match with etiquette.

If I've got a great hand (but not the nuts) and only call on the river, I'd want to see what the other guy was playing, so that I can build my knowledge base on the player (i.e does he overbet 2pr on a scary turn/river), or if I've read the bet as a blocker bet I want to see if my read was correct.

As we all know, Poker is a game of info and all information gained adds to your edge.

So why is it bad etiquette when you have paid (in real terms on a cash table) to see a guys cards, it's then bad etiquette to request the information that you have paid for?

/end dumb question

because its bad etiquette to build your info base while counting his chips

lol, true true

IMO you will get more action from a player if he knows that a donkish call/ridiculous bluff wont be shown for everyone to laugh at them

il take my chances . i really dont care as i dont fear death in the slightest . been shot wouldnt be the worse way to go.

You really don't understand etiquette - its not about you.  Its about the mess that polite people have to clear up when people like you clash with other people like you.

That Sir is probably a front runner for "post of the year" ...  ;hattip; ;hattip;

LOL salfi ur a dousche

  lets be an arse . im been honest and i dont throw personal insults at anyone specifically .  whats with making it personal . just cause i do things my way and i give my opinion and u dont like it u become an arse.      i give my time i give a differnt prespective u obviously dont share.     keep it to yourself if u have to be negative cause i dont post on here to be slagged off for been honest.  im sorry if people read my posts and we dont share views.       i could go into a rant but il keep my personal oppinions of u to myself as i dont see the benefit of sharing that with the world. we all build an online personality and im sorry if u dont like mine. im not going to change il still give my personal opinion and if u just have a go at my posts fair enough if its constructive but just to have a go makes me think why do i bother. im always happy to share my poker knowledge with anyone i have given my time for free and i will continue to do so. i dont claim to be world class but im a winning player ive played at all levels and i make my living from the game. i have things to offer lesser players and as i have received mails requestin help in the past i really think some people value my opinion and the time i give to them.     remember u dont know me u have very little to do with my poker circles so please stop posting to any of my comments if u cant be insult free.

lol ok

You haven't paid to see someones cards. You've paid to participate in showdown.

cash and tournies are completely different games with different rules and different etiquette

I can see that it might look odd when you consider a bet and a call on the river as all the action until the end seems to be the same in both

maybe better to look at an example where the betting ends earlier as the differences between the 2 games become clearer

let's say 2 players get all in pre flop. now neither has the right to see the other's cards. the dealer will never ask them to put them on their backs. both have the option to show 1 or more cards or none at any time from the end of betting to the point when the last card is dealt. once the last card is dealt either player can choose to muck without having to show any cards.

the situation in the op of a bet and call on the river is exactly the same as this just several streets earlier

But they do have a right to request to see.

I think you're getting at the tournament all in rule, which states that once a player is all in and betting is completed all cards must be turned face up. This is seperate to the standard showdown rule. So although this rule doesn't apply to a cash game it doesn't change a player's right to request to see hands eligible to participate in showdown.

you sound upset ?

obv if you really insist i am sure you would get to see it, i would personally never ask though and if someone asked me to show a loser in a big cash pot i would be pretty pissed off.

If someone did it at a table i was on i would request to see everyone of his showdowns for the whole night.

Yeah, I've never asked to see a losing hand in my life, and I never will do. Pretty stupid that the rules have this option in place imo. Not buying the collusion angle as the rule would solve that perfectly well if only the floorperson got to look at the cards, no need to show the table.

Sorry I have to disagree, you have 'called' the other player's bet to see his hand, not necessarily to have to show your hand.

Otherwise the rule would be that both hands have to been shown on the river.

By far the simplest solution would be for the 'called' player to automatically turn over his cards without any delay. None of this - "can beat a King", "I have two pair" or showing just one card!

The board is K high and you call with a medium King and the other playing shows just one card, a King, annoys the hell out of me!

I fear death badly, urgh who wants death? Also if you lost your life to some random American dousche who shot you for slow-rolling him in some $1/$2 game that would be a thoroughly shit way to go.

better then gettin hit by a bus. and why would i fear death it happens eventually u cant get away from it so why stress.

Do you step into the road without looking?

Fair enough not fearing death, but personally I would quite like another 30 or 40 years on this planet. It would be the ultimate waste of time dying tomorrow.

Surely if someone bets and another player calls, he's entitled to see the first player's hand? That's what a call is - paying to see a hand if it comes to showdown (which it obviously does if there's an all-in). If a third player also calls he must be entitled to see at least the previous player's hand...which he has just paid to see.
Surely all poker rooms have a definite rule about this?

this argument could get religious , because u want 30/40 years means dont mean u wil get it and if someone decides to shoot me i cant get away from that its just the ultimate bad beat.

why would i not look  ?  i dont decide if someone wants to shoot me. if someone wants to kill me over a game that would be there choice. i not going to not enjoy my life and live it my way in fear of what might happen esp in a game of cards. these are all extreme cases of some nutter shooting me. we dont live in the wild west.   i dont wake up worryin bout crossing the road anymorre then i worry bout playin cards and playin the rules as they are .   

I don't disagree with what you have said there, but still don't get why you don't seem to care about how long you live. I have plenty left to do, see and enjoy, so would be majorly pissed off if I was to not wake up tomorrow.

definitely, but if a player folded on an earlier street and didnt reach the showdown, he has no entitlement imo.

also, if the guy that bet just mucks his hand HU on the river, u know the guy had bs so shouldnt give the guy more pain.

i don't think they let you into heaven if you slowroll though...

i do care how long i live but i dont fear the future . i wil do what i can to long my life ie eat healthy excersize and stuff . but sample size of 1 on life expectancy is complete random and its not somet i control.

    calling shot gun on road trip to heaven.   im in wiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii   

To sumarise, Salfi will slowroll anyone because he is a fearless badass.

not at all. i dont slowroll . i have done but it wasnt to slowroll to be mean it was for the reasons explained.    if i had the same spot again i would declare nuts and request the viewing of the opponenst hand 1st.   if he then mucks anyway i wouldnt show my hand down.
i dont agrea in slowrolling but there was a spot were i wanted to see his hand and i was exploiting my right to view his hand 1st. i dont make the grey areas of the game i just use em to my advantage when i can.

The summary is salfi finds death by gunshot more appealing than death by traffic accident. At this time we have no further information about salfi's "top 10 ways to go" rankings system. I reckon heart attack while straddled by a nurse young enough to be his daughter has gotta be up there though.

ide very much like to go out this way. 

not sure but is it legal for you to go that way?

well not if i die anytime soon as a nurse young enough to be my daughter would be like junior school age.   but as i dont have any plans to die anytime soon hopefully in 50or so years maybe a lady young enough to be my grandaughter might be nearer the money. :)

The nurse would probably quite like you to go out that way too.

I'm pretty sure it's legal in Switzerland. Alternatively it's legal in other European countries if the woman is simply dressed as a nurse. However she wouldn't be qualified and that could hamper any resuscitation attempt.

still not legal its switzerland as i am sure i saw salfi at bB8 and he didnt look like he was over 32

Oh right. Well dying while doing something illegal should be legal. If it's not legal, meh.

i'd agree with you but not in this case that should always remain illegal

skydiving without a parachute ftw

suicide is painless, it brings on many changes


personal i would prefer something i didnt see coming