blonde poker forum

A 16 big blind shove from MP with AJ? I doubt that's inexploitable.

Too many chips to shove I think, Raise to 5k.

I am pretty sure shoving is an unexploitable here (not checked it in sngwiz yet), this actually takes me to a conversation on here about M yesterday. We don't really have 16bbs effective here with antes in play, that is why using M is better. Without antes our stack is effectively just over 10bbs and then shoving wouldn't seem so ridic.

I do prefer opening to 5k here and playing from there but with a little less in my stack (less than 30k), I probably would open shove.

i really dislike raising in an environment where we dont really know what we are going to do if someone is going to jam on us which is why i prefer shoving.

folding is obviously out of the question since jamming is +EV and fairly easy to prove.

Another option to throw in.....

How about limping? If someone makes a raise we snap shove and our hand looks even stronger.

If a shorty shoves we snap him off.

We could maybe use our reputation, ie not having one to induce a mistake from someone with a worse hand?

I found 2 things awkward about this hand.

Firstly, I'd just been moved tables. I knew absolutely nothing of the players around me.
Secondly, my hand and position were really awkward with this stack size.

These two factors led me to even consider just folding and trying to get some more info on the table. But I only have an m of 6ish, I've not got much time to be doing that.

I also considered a raise, but again, I don't know how the table would react to it. Eg, on my old table there's some players that i could snap a shove from and others that i could snap fold to. But I don't have this info here.

In the end I decided that shoving an m of 6 with AJ must be just about +EV. It seemed the best and easiest of the options so I went with it.

as u are at the shoving stack size the choices from a cev point of view are shove. people do pull flops with k10 etc so playin the hand oop is just yucky infact playin the hand in pos can be tricky with the stack sizes cause if the blinds defend im guessing they fold no part of any board they hit.
with no reads shove is the best option by some distance compared to the fold ,raise fold .   ive seen people fold ak face up ive seen people fold tens face up sayin they dont wanta gamble after a shove but ive also seen pocket 2s call and kj call puttin u on nothing but blank cards . all this sed how much of an edge do u think u can find elsewee in a turbo to not shove this spot? anything but shove ide consider spew.
  raise folding is terrible cause the pot would be sufficent to gamble from a cev point of view.
  just gg yaself if u run into it. power poker ftw.
 if u gunner open fold then u are bluffing with aj so u might aswell open atc from this point of view as blockers are unimportant with the blinds to stack ratio if people are really only jamming super thin range.
 i dont mind raise folding in some games but i most certianly wudnt have a monster of aj doin so with M of 6.  obviously if u  raise to 5k stack with only aces then ya hand stands out wich means if this is ya perceived range u shud open atc.
 easy game this poker marlarky.  my advice M6 equals wiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii kaplunk gg aufvidersein pet

If your oppos have the same negative interpretation of the situation as you this should be an easy raise to get through. It all seems a bit scaredy cat because they have no info on you either. I mean, just sit down and raise normally, and let them figure it out. Why would anyone 3-bet you with no info right? You might get a caller and can figure to jam the flop & again your oppo wont have info, but you'll have a bigger pot. Thinking about folding/jamming this hand is avoiding making decisions about it. But you're good at poker so you're good at decisions right? You have a good hand and undoubtedly shit oppos to your left so little need to shove like an internet robot imo.

Translator please.

as u are at the shoving stack size the choices from a cev point of view are shove. people do pull flops with k10 etc so playin the hand oop is just yucky infact playin the hand in pos can be tricky with the stack sizes cause if the blinds defend im guessing they fold no part of any board they hit.
with no reads shove is the best option by some distance compared to the fold ,raise fold .   ive seen people fold ak face up ive seen people fold tens face up sayin they dont wanta gamble after a shove but ive also seen pocket 2s call and kj call puttin u on nothing but blank cards . all this sed how much of an edge do u think u can find elsewee in a turbo to not shove this spot? anything but shove ide consider spew.
  raise folding is terrible cause the pot would be sufficent to gamble from a cev point of view.
  just gg yaself if u run into it. power poker ftw.
 if u gunner open fold then u are bluffing with aj so u might aswell open atc from this point of view as blockers are unimportant with the blinds to stack ratio if people are really only jamming super thin range.
 i dont mind raise folding in some games but i most certianly wudnt have a monster of aj doin so with M of 6.  obviously if u  raise to 5k stack with only aces then ya hand stands out wich means if this is ya perceived range u shud open atc.
 easy game this poker marlarky.  my advice M6 equals wiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii kaplunk gg aufvidersein pet

the craziness of this thread eludes me. Whats the problem with opening small? Pll seem to think we wont be snapping a jam. Open shoving might be +EV just because villains calling range is forced to be super narrow, open smaller, let them jam worse for value (a8/9/10/KJ/QJ blabla)/bluff, get a situation where you are massively +EV...

the craziness of this thread eludes me. Whats the problem with opening small? Pll seem to think we wont be snapping a jam. Open shoving might be +EV just because villains calling range is forced to be super narrow, open smaller, let them jam worse for value (a8/9/10/KJ/QJ blabla)/bluff, get a situation where you are massively +EV...

Their ranges are irrelevant, the shove is unexploitable. In fact in these spots with aj, the wider they call the more +ev the push is. Having played this tourney this week there were so few people capable of re shoving light that really isn't a massive consideration.

Let me ask you what would happen if the shove got through as expected, you added 3k to your stack, and then picked up A-J next hand. The shove is unexploitable right? So we shove again. At what stage do we draw the line with this mentality? Also yeah the players are bad so when we standard raise all suited Aces and broadway hands k-J/Q-J etc...will come along. This is very good for us.

Mantis I advocate making it 5k if you look back in the thread, I simply pointing out that the shove is unexploitable and the opponents ranges make no difference. If we add 4.8k(assuming 9 handed), we therefore are deeper and therefore the shove might not be unexploitable.

If you plan to push many flops how is position important here? Acting first is advantageous. But wait, you could well have position if your action comes from the blinds, so why are we overly stressing that we're deffo getting action from the 3 players to our left? When you shove A-J a worse hand will NEVER call you and a better hand will probably call you. If you standard raise there is a fair chance a worse hand will call you and that hand will hit a flop less than one third of the time. If your position in a tournament is such that you're having to shove don't think you have some massive edge here, you're in trouble, and I don't think shoving and folding out all worse hands and taking some blinds is so desirable really. If people like shoving here because they wont get called they should happily shove atc imo.

Acting first is advantageous???

When the other guy gets to see you shove, then decide if he wants to call or not?

As for worse hands calling, we're not playing KK here, we're very happy to take the blinds and antes. If we standard raise then see a flop we won't know whether a 'worse hand' has called us until its far too late.

meh, in this tourney i glance round the table, and see the age/demeanor of the players on your left, most important thing is to decide before you raise, how you will proceed if each of the players shoves. Make it 5k, you may decide to raise/call 3 of the 4 and raise/fold to the other. I do favour a 5k raise here as opposed to the jam. Im never folding/limping, or never raising with the intention of folding to any shoves.

Stop slowrolling CF ffs! What happened?

why do the results even matter. ?

meh, in this tourney i glance round the table, and see the age/demeanor of the players on your left, most important thing is to decide before you raise, how you will proceed if each of the players shoves. Make it 5k, you may decide to raise/call 3 of the 4 and raise/fold to the other. I do favour a 5k raise here as opposed to the jam. Im never folding/limping, or never raising with the intention of folding to any shoves.

why do the results even matter. ?

They don't, hence I've not posted it. You've seen me post these things too where I've won so not really safe to assume that I always lose them :)

In conclusion then: shoving is fine, but 2.5xing it and going from there depending who gives us action is better?

They don't, hence I've not posted it. You've seen me post these things too where I've won so not really safe to assume that I always lose them :)

In conclusion then: shoving is fine, but 2.5xing it and going from there depending who gives us action is better?