20:20 hand

[Longy]

I did say I preferred opening to 5k, in my post in the last line. So in effect you are agreeing with me.

Thinking about you stack in terms of bbs and M is fine, if you are apply them properly to push/fold ranges. The reason I think M works better with antes is that it is a lot easier to calculate than bbs with antes in play. As we have seen in this thread there is a lot of we can't push 16bbs stuff, without taking into account that is mathematically correct play irrelevant of calling ranges compared to folding.

The fact that you and some other people seem to think this is negative thinking is slightly bizarre to me. I have spent along time in poker trying to not view anything in poker as negative or positive just simply what is the correct play.

[EvilPie]

i really dislike raising in an environment where we dont really know what we are going to do if someone is going to jam on us which is why i prefer shoving.

folding is obviously out of the question since jamming is +EV and fairly easy to prove.

Lol

Easy poker ftw.....

[EvilPie]

Another option to throw in.....

How about limping? If someone makes a raise we snap shove and our hand looks even stronger.

If a shorty shoves we snap him off.

We could maybe use our reputation, ie not having one to induce a mistake from someone with a worse hand?

[Longy]

Another option to throw in.....

How about limping? If someone makes a raise we snap shove and our hand looks even stronger.

If a shorty shoves we snap him off.

We could maybe use our reputation, ie not having one to induce a mistake from someone with a worse hand?

Ugh don't like limping, much more likely the pot goes multiway and we miss. Do people in these tourneys even isolate raise with that many hands that aj beats?

Raise 5k>Shove>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Fold>>>>>>>>>>>>>Limp.

[Girgy85]

Fold the quietly pull the dealer to one side when he moves table and tell him not to deal you AJ in a crappy position at a new table! SIMPLES!!

[MANTIS01]

I found 2 things awkward about this hand.

Firstly, I'd just been moved tables. I knew absolutely nothing of the players around me.
Secondly, my hand and position were really awkward with this stack size.

These two factors led me to even consider just folding and trying to get some more info on the table. But I only have an m of 6ish, I've not got much time to be doing that.

I also considered a raise, but again, I don't know how the table would react to it. Eg, on my old table there's some players that i could snap a shove from and others that i could snap fold to. But I don't have this info here.

In the end I decided that shoving an m of 6 with AJ must be just about +EV. It seemed the best and easiest of the options so I went with it.

If your oppos have the same negative interpretation of the situation as you this should be an easy raise to get through. It all seems a bit scaredy cat because they have no info on you either. I mean, just sit down and raise normally, and let them figure it out. Why would anyone 3-bet you with no info right? You might get a caller and can figure to jam the flop & again your oppo wont have info, but you'll have a bigger pot. Thinking about folding/jamming this hand is avoiding making decisions about it. But you're good at poker so you're good at decisions right? You have a good hand and undoubtedly shit oppos to your left so little need to shove like an internet robot imo.

[salfi]

 people do pull flops with k10 etc so playin the hand oop is just not good infact playin the hand in pos can be tricky with the stack sizes cause if the blinds defend im guessing they fold no part of any board they hit.
with no reads shove is the best option by some distance compared to the fold or raise fold .
  ive seen people fold ak face up ive seen people fold tens face up sayin they dont wanta gamble after a shove but ive also seen  call and  call puttin u on nothing but blank cards .
 all this sed how much of an edge do u think u can find elsewee in a turbo to not shove this spot? anything but shove ide consider spew.
  raise folding is terrible cause the pot would be sufficent to gamble from a chips point of view.
  just gg yaself if u run into it. power poker ftw.
 if u gunner open fold then u are bluffing with aj so u might aswell open atc from this point of view as blockers are unimportant with the blinds to stack ratio if people are really only jamming super thin range. if there peeling pre flop then deffo jam .
 i dont mind raise folding in some games but i most certianly wudnt have a monster of aj doin so with M of 6.  obviously if u  raise to 5k stack with only aces then ya hand stands out wich means if this is ya perceived range u shud open atc.
 my advice M6 equals wiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii gg

[salfi]

if u gunner open fold then u are bluffing with aj so u might aswell open atc from this point of view as blockers are unimportant with the blinds to stack ratio if people are really only jamming super thin range.
i mean open then fold rather then just open fold when the action hits u.

[Longy]

as u are at the shoving stack size the choices from a cev point of view are shove. people do pull flops with k10 etc so playin the hand oop is just yucky infact playin the hand in pos can be tricky with the stack sizes cause if the blinds defend im guessing they fold no part of any board they hit.
with no reads shove is the best option by some distance compared to the fold ,raise fold .   ive seen people fold ak face up ive seen people fold tens face up sayin they dont wanta gamble after a shove but ive also seen pocket call and kj call puttin u on nothing but blank cards . all this sed how much of an edge do u think u can find elsewee in a turbo to not shove this spot? anything but shove ide consider spew.
  raise folding is terrible cause the pot would be sufficent to gamble from a cev point of view.
  just gg yaself if u run into it. power poker ftw.
 if u gunner open fold then u are bluffing with aj so u might aswell open atc from this point of view as blockers are unimportant with the blinds to stack ratio if people are really only jamming super thin range.
 i dont mind raise folding in some games but i most certianly wudnt have a monster of aj doin so with M of 6.  obviously if u  raise to 5k stack with only aces then ya hand stands out wich means if this is ya perceived range u shud open atc.
 easy game this poker marlarky.  my advice M6 equals wiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii kaplunk gg aufvidersein pet

Translator please.

[salfi]

I found 2 things awkward about this hand.

Firstly, I'd just been moved tables. I knew absolutely nothing of the players around me.
Secondly, my hand and position were really awkward with this stack size.

These two factors led me to even consider just folding and trying to get some more info on the table. But I only have an m of 6ish, I've not got much time to be doing that.

I also considered a raise, but again, I don't know how the table would react to it. Eg, on my old table there's some players that i could snap a shove from and others that i could snap fold to. But I don't have this info here.

In the end I decided that shoving an m of 6 with AJ must be just about +EV. It seemed the best and easiest of the options so I went with it.

If your oppos have the same negative interpretation of the situation as you this should be an easy raise to get through. It all seems a bit scaredy cat because they have no info on you either. I mean, just sit down and raise normally, and let them figure it out. Why would anyone 3-bet you with no info right? You might get a caller and can figure to jam the flop & again your oppo wont have info, but you'll have a bigger pot. Thinking about folding/jamming this hand is avoiding making decisions about it. But you're good at poker so you're good at decisions right? You have a good hand and undoubtedly shit oppos to your left so little need to shove like an internet robot imo.

anything but shove with this hand in this spot is considered fps(fancy play syndrome)online cause it just gives u no edge post flop and gets iffy if anyone peels no one wil peel pre flop hit the flop/favrouble board then fold to ya shove post flop. so u put some chips in good rest in bad . on boards favrouble to aj then he prob folds post flop. so uve made a few k extra raising small pre dont make up for the extra risk involved at losing the hand and tourney life by opening with so few chips behind.  if u have more chips u can raise and play post flop but  m6 is start of shoving  range with aj here.
 what used to happen here is good player realised it looks so strong opening here so in good games u can open and fold if u get jammed on making sure that u wont ever showdown atc due to the stack sizes but u wil steel the pot quite a lot. marginal hands need shoving cause they play well all in/take the blinds and trash can be steeling hands as u dont intend to ever showdown.  hope ive made some  good points here. feel like ive rambled a lot and its just stuff i think obviously just my point of view and lots of people wil disagrea .

[salfi]

as u are at the shoving stack size the choices from a cev point of view are shove. people do pull flops with k10 etc so playin the hand oop is just yucky infact playin the hand in pos can be tricky with the stack sizes cause if the blinds defend im guessing they fold no part of any board they hit.
with no reads shove is the best option by some distance compared to the fold ,raise fold .   ive seen people fold ak face up ive seen people fold tens face up sayin they dont wanta gamble after a shove but ive also seen pocket call and kj call puttin u on nothing but blank cards . all this sed how much of an edge do u think u can find elsewee in a turbo to not shove this spot? anything but shove ide consider spew.
  raise folding is terrible cause the pot would be sufficent to gamble from a cev point of view.
  just gg yaself if u run into it. power poker ftw.
 if u gunner open fold then u are bluffing with aj so u might aswell open atc from this point of view as blockers are unimportant with the blinds to stack ratio if people are really only jamming super thin range.
 i dont mind raise folding in some games but i most certianly wudnt have a monster of aj doin so with M of 6.  obviously if u  raise to 5k stack with only aces then ya hand stands out wich means if this is ya perceived range u shud open atc.
 easy game this poker marlarky.  my advice M6 equals wiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii kaplunk gg aufvidersein pet

Translator please.

yer reading bk it dont read that well shuda taken more time. il try write this up again not that anyone listens but il try proof im not as stupid as i come accross     
    prove   lol

[salfi]

as u are at the shoving stack size the choices from a cev point of view are shove. people do pull flops with k10 etc so playin the hand oop is just yucky infact playin the hand in pos can be tricky with the stack sizes cause if the blinds defend im guessing they fold no part of any board they hit.
with no reads shove is the best option by some distance compared to the fold ,raise fold .   ive seen people fold ak face up ive seen people fold tens face up sayin they dont wanta gamble after a shove but ive also seen pocket call and kj call puttin u on nothing but blank cards . all this sed how much of an edge do u think u can find elsewee in a turbo to not shove this spot? anything but shove ide consider spew.
  raise folding is terrible cause the pot would be sufficent to gamble from a cev point of view.
  just gg yaself if u run into it. power poker ftw.
 if u gunner open fold then u are bluffing with aj so u might aswell open atc from this point of view as blockers are unimportant with the blinds to stack ratio if people are really only jamming super thin range.
 i dont mind raise folding in some games but i most certianly wudnt have a monster of aj doin so with M of 6.  obviously if u  raise to 5k stack with only aces then ya hand stands out wich means if this is ya perceived range u shud open atc.
 easy game this poker marlarky.  my advice M6 equals wiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii kaplunk gg aufvidersein pet

  shove is fine sorry for the rant

[Horneris]

Make a wager for all the chips you have in front of you.

Most of the time just mop up almost 5,000 chips, NB win the hand, either as a flip or as an underdog, and the rest of the time, wish the remaining players good luck and go get smashed at the bar.

[poonjoe]

Its all about position, innit?

Raise-folding here is good when someone wakes up with a massive hand behind but guess what? That doesn't happen very often. What DOES happen often is you get flatted and have to play a flop OOP. With yr stack who needs that brainache? Also what DOES happen very often is everyone folds, sweet.

You can raise the AJ with 16bb when yr on the button or maybe cutoff its a different story. In MP, new table, shoving is +EV AND we get to overcome our bad position.

[Girgy85]

What happened cf?