blonde poker forum

Okay don’t normally subject myself to this but been thinking about this hand so here goes, IPO Dublin few weeks back.

Early 2nd level blinds 50/100, 10k starting stack down to 8k after raising a few hands and not getting there or believed. Table has been playing fairly standard apart from one pretty loose guy who has isn’t in the hand. My image is probably fairly aggressive as been pretty active (turned up near end of 1st level so don’t have a lot to go on so far).

In the cut off 2 limpers before me, I have  Qh Qs and make it 500 to play SB (covers me) calls quickly, don’t know much about him except he won the thing the previous year hasn’t been that active etc. Everyone else gets out of the way.

Flop

 Jc Jd 7s

Thoughts so far and how do you proceed, will try to do this in stages,

i am guessing he checks to you.

i don't actually mind checking back but i guess you could bet to get value out of smaller PPs

yes checked to me

i am betting this here. i need information. if he check-calls, i am obv going to proceed with caution.

if he c-raises, then i am probably going to 4-bet it.

I am checking back as i can get bluffed easily by betting and can get 2 streets off a wider range when im ahead by checking back.

i like to make it 700-800 here if he calls we can check behind on turn and keep some pot control
if we check now he is likely to lead turn and river

Yeah this sounds good.

You're never getting paid on 3 streets so a check disguises the strength of your hand whilst keeping the pot under control for now.

I'm a bit concerned by the SB calling. It's difficult to put him on anything really. I wouldn't be worried about over pairs as he called quickly without really assessing anything. 77 a possibility to consider if the action gets a bit fruity put Jx seems doubtful.

If he's a good player surely he's passing AJ, KJ type hands from the SB?

Could get interesting down the streets.

Normally I'd agree with Alex, but this is literally the worst standard of comp I've ever played. If my opponent seems semi decent then I'm happy to check back and go for value on the turn and river but if he's one of 90% ridic donks in that field I'm betting, betting, betting as we won't get exploited by a hand that isn't Jx or 77.

i bet 850... then see what he does... if he calls and checks the turn i check back

What if he calls then leads the turn for 2k?

It looks like a float but what if he's got it? Do you want that decision this early?

This is exactly why Alex suggests checking. We can easily be bluffed on this board and a good oppo knows that. He has us covered and can put us to the test using his stack.

If we decide to get stubborn and call his turn lead where are we when he shoves?

Definitely prefer the check. We've got position so use it to our advantage. Don't give the reigns over to him.

Why?

I don't mind this move if there's a reason but why fire the flop to boost the pot then act weak on the turn?

Are you hoping to induce a bluff on the river? Are you checking back the river? Are you bet / folding the river?

What's the plan?

if he leads the turn then i have to go from reads 

i am not scared to lay this down or to shove but i have to have an idea of who i am against

but i dont want to be checking the flop then calling the turn and river

I see what he does on the river... if he fires i call... if he checks i lead out...

And what if he leads the turn for 2k?

Okay interesting he checks to me and i bet 1050, fairly swift call. I had him on a fairly small range due to the swiftness of his call preflop so decided to bet it out. There was no hand in that range that included a jack unless it was JJ and if so gg

Turn

 5c

checked to me.

check it now i think. Are you gonna get 3 streets from a lower pair?

GL Sir

Check back turn and call river if he bets.

that is what i was saying. I would also value bet river (depending upon card) if he checked again.

ya, obv

Ok I checked behind, as someone said i didn't think i would get 3 streets from a lower PP which is pretty much what i believed he had given his behaviour so far. Hoped he would believe I had AK/AQ kinda hand and would therefore get another bet on the river.

River  6h

He bets 3500......

Simple question but from the orbit and a bit you've played with him, does he look decent?

Hard to say he had a Sunderland top on?

Didn't really see him involved too much to make any great assumption on him but thought he was certainly competent.

errr call and wince i think.

errrrrrrrrrrrr?????????

massive over bet to the pot and your wanting to put half your stack in with a call on the turn?
if you think your ahead shove if not sure fold you have 500tc in pot why do you want to go broke?

so shove or fold

We're on the river mate.

Snap call. No thinking required the way the action has gone.

lolwat - follow the action

it is also not a massive overbet either it is less than the pot

Wow tough spot. FWIW I play it the same way. Without reads I fold....

Yeah I kinda like this line as well. Problem with checking the flop is that we can look like a J when we give him action on a brick turn. So not sure river value is guaranteed. Also, if we know this is an easy bluffing opportunity and villain prob has no J aren't we losing lots of value not betting the flop? That said I think villain's snap pre from the sb makes Alex's line more desirable. Villain prob has a pair including premium but checking the turn commits you to calling the river imo.

sorry i missed the turn post

it was if you remove the 2.1k that went in on flop i missed

on river i call and rake in the chips
i dont move in as you wont get called by anything your beating

Sunderland shirt means that person is a 'pro'. I'd be inclined to fold here. It's not a blocker bet or a bluff I don't think.

Not sure if he is a pro he won it the previous year and has nothing else to his name on HMDB.

Hi Eck,

I would call now mate.  You played the hand fairly standard and well imo, its not the greatest river sport in the world but you have to call I think.

Then i quite possibly fold the turn... I have to bet the flop to see where I stand...

no if you bet the flop it would be for value

So OP did bet the flop - and obviously didn't find out where he stood.  What skills should he (and me for that matter) develop?  

You should both develop the skill to check imo.

OP should also develop the skill to drink his JD without having to dilute it with panda pops.

Aye very good boulder brain but do you call the river?

I would fold without reads...

Just cos a few people keep mentioning things like this thought it was best to say we never bet for information or to find out where we are.

We bet for value, to protect the best hand or as a bluff most commonly as well as blockers etc.

We gain information from these bets but it is not why we make them.

Yes.

I think I pass the river.

That's cus you're a homo.

Shutup boulder brain.

I sure hope that sticks.

As played it may well be a pass but I don't think I can. Obviously I'm not good enough to lay down an over pair.

I would've played the hand very differently though to keep the pot under control if possible.

Maybe that's the habit you get in to when you hate folding? Keep the pot small so you don't have to.

A player who doesn't mind passing can happily bluff at it on the flop when they know they'll be able to lay down when they get a bit of a fight back.

I always wondered what boldie was short for...

I don't get it but not you and him arguing again pls.....!

Where do we keep the pot smaller and also get value from what should be the winning hand on most occasions?

If you check the flop surely you are betting the turn? And on this occasion you would have faced a similar decision on the river.

The way I played it I felt I had to call the river as I had checked behind on turn to hope he value bets/bluffs to me or will check call another bet. I had him on a very small range mainly due to the swift manner of his call, he didn’t consider re-raising or folding and I didn’t think he would be calling with AJ/KJ/QJ oop. So thought his likely holding was med PP poss AK/AQ. So by the end I don’t think it is any AK/AQ and have him down to pairs up to TT (discounting quads obv) probably could get 22-44 out of equation as he may have taken a second before calling but this was instant (he may have had a look prior but sure he looked after I acted)

So I am beating 88,99.TT and a bluff but does he bet pot with them or wouldn’t his line more likely be check call? Anyway called as I had already decided that I was prior to the bet, didn’t expect it to be just as big, and he had 66, should have stayed in the pub longer and missed that level too imo  :D

he binked - unlucky

can't see me folding the way i played it out

Ye Gads man seems v nitty to me to fold the river if the turn has gone check check.

Whether you check behind the flop or check behind the turn you end up losing about the same when you're behind, and winning two streets of value when you're ahead.

With QQ here you have to assume that you're ahead the majority of the time, and therefore you're playing your hand carefully for value and a little protection, but you're prepared to muck if he shows a lot of strength.

I prefer betting the flop and checking behind the turn because I think that under-represents my hand and lets me make a big value bet on the river if he checks.

The trouble with checking the flop then betting turn is that yr turn bet is leveraged, i.e. he has to call that knowing that he has to go to the river and perhaps face another big bet there.

Boulder Brain

rotflmfao