blonde poker forum

FT live £100 tourney... 7 Left.. short stack allin with 3 callers me BB with 7 8 ...its another 9k into 45k to call...

I call...no side pot at the moment.

flop is low raggy 6 high everyone checks...

turn is an 8 and i make a 20k bet...chip leader calls ... there are 2 clubs but i also don't like my kicker in this spot... i feel he has to have something in this spot to call ..

the turn is a queen and i check it and he makes a biggish bet... i feel i must be beat by something like A 8 and i finally fold ..

allin man turns over his hand and has spiked bottom pair...chip leader has called and bet with king high no draw and the short stack scoops..

Am i wrong in thinking the chipleader has made a horrible play here?...he has made a small profit from our created side pot but his kept a man in and given him chips ?

Would need stack sizes and blinds.

also how many pay and how top heavy is it

sometimes as a big stack it helps to keep small stacks in that are trying to ladder

so you can accumulate chips

I'd say he's played it better than you

if you're bothered about knocking out the allin player then don't bet your own marginal hand

it seems a bit strange to be bothered by him keeping the shortie in when your turn bet could've done the exact same thing and got him to fold the winner

blinds 2k 4k  C/l 200k me 80k

ive hit top pair and theres 45k in the pot...

This should go check check all the way unless one of you has something near an unbeatable hand...

why?

Two men are more likely to knock out the player out than one...

wow fold pre!

pre had just over 100k ..80k after the turn bet.... u don't call 9k more into 45k in the blinds with 4k invested last to act pre ?

In all fairness you made the horrible play - the CL just capitalised on it

Why are you betting a dry side pot in a hand that you cannot continue with. You then develop a side pot, within which you are pot committed to any further action and then complain when the CL takes you off the side pot with a bluff?

Which part of the hand do you think you played ok?

If you arent prepared to go with your hand then you should be checking.

There is only a 'mistake' here if there is a bluff at the main pot with no side pot.

but if your the CL and everyone is playing scared as you aproach the bubble or they are all trying to ladder why would you want to knock a player out?
you can increase your stack to give you an even better chance of winning the event

Not with 78, no

I don't think i played it particularly well... i tried to pick up the 45k after hitting top pair with one card to come as i think I'm winning..now the chip leader comes looming over the horizon and I've no idea where i am.. his played it well by taking the created side pot away from me, but by me betting he has to know Ive something as he and 2 others are still to act... its a confusing situation as theres a decent pot to be had... if id bet with no hand that would have bee really bad..

I'm not sure why the other guy is getting involved with no hand..

reasons ?

Let's say the shorty has AA. How much do you win by betting and taking others out . . . .

As for folding pre. You miss the board way too many times to commit 13% of your stack. When you hit you don't know where you are. The call isn't terrible if you 100% know you will get table cooperation, but that clearly isn't the case.

Hmmm... if he has AA and nobodys hit anything significant by the turn then his always going to win whatever i do...

the call... fair enough... getting 5-1 was prob too tempting for me...

The point with the AA being that your bet achieves nothing but increases the villains chances of winning.

Because you've got 8 high possibly?

78 can be a nice hand for raising in to another player with a stack but it's never been a hand for calling an all in.

I think this hand is a perfect example of why you shouldn't call an all in with 78.

Would you call a shorty allin in 1 on 1 with 2-1 odds with 7 8

the only reason to call pre here is the hope that it's checked down and 5 players get to showdown and the shortie is eliminated

when you decide to bet your very marginal holding on the turn you change the dynamic of the whole hand, there's now a side pot and checking it down is not an option so the other guy kicks into action and outplays you

if you check the turn then in all likelihood so does everyone else, ditto the river and we get to showdown and knock the shortie out which was surely the only point of calling pre

Fair enough.. i suppose i see 45k going begging..however if i did check it down one of the guys who folded to my bet hits a queen and wins a pot that could be mine..

I think my main question is should the man with no hand call me ?

yes if he thinks he can take you off it.

He has walked away with an 11k profit from the hand where as you ditched  29k........................................

yeah, absolutely. there's no way you have a premium holding as you would be raising 100% of the time from the bb and he's pretty sure you don't have air or you'd be bluffing a dry side pot so it's a fair assumption from the play so far that you caught the 7

given that you pairing the 7 is pretty likely he knows that almost any river is going to be a scare card for you so he can take down the side pot easily

I like the way the chip leader played this. You played it ridicutez though.

Or, more seriously, I call pre and check the 8. Don't see any point in creating an unnecessary side pot against such an unpredictable character. They're his chips to play how he wants. Shove it up your kilt.

If i check the 8 a player who folds to my bet takes the pot...do i then kick myself as i was ahead ?

NO!

You need to get the play right BEFORE you call. You call as a *ahem* 'team effort' to bust a player. If you want to get tricky - move all in preflop - doing this is much less worse (rather than better) than what you actually did. Im surprised the table didnt roast you.

If you make a bet - you leave yourself with less than a pot sized bet, so you are pretty much pot committed.

what is someone is in the pot with TJ or Kx - they were ahead of you pre........... but they arent gonna be upset if you win with 89 - thats life.

Shorty shows 99 and now has a stack over half the size of yours.

Meanwhile your 8 wins 0 chips, just the same as if you'd checked and let one of the callers behind you catch his queen, except now not only are you gtd more money but you have more chips too.

Just playing devils advocate here^^ but I don't like the call pre. We only have 20bbs, can't be spewing here with 78o OOP against 3 players. It just means trouble.

Maybe for the same reason you did pre?

Yeah fair enough on most points.. it was a very weird situation...

Yes

Ugh no, there are loads of spots where it is correct to bet into dry side spots. Just do what is the +ev thing for you, it is not your responsiblity to knock someone else out, if you can improve your situation by doing something else.

I think this was my thinking at the time... i saw 45 k sitting there with no obvious interest..ive hit top pair which in all fairness is prob beating the allin as i think he had like 2.5 bb and moves with any 2..but hey its y i asked the question...

this is a very common spot - learn to play it well

Yeah agreed i like the bet once you have got to the turn, i just could never be in this pot.

I think Steve played it well. He's not really bothered about the short stack chipping up but it's not a bad spot for him to put a pretty big dent in you.

IIRC he called your turn bet with a FD and when it's checked to him on the river he took the opportunity presented pretty well imo.

Quite a lot of the time I think bets into dry side pots are a good move, I don't think this was one of them.

Overall though, I think you're both very silly billies for not letting me get there on the end. Short stack ended up outlasting you both which may be some kind of moral to the story.

shove pre

in retrospect yes and take a prob 6-4 with the shortie...not a bad move..

My abs. favourite move is when shorty goes all-in UTG and there's three callers and so I iso-shove with QTo or something and when they all fold their KQ and JT shit I get 5 to 1 on my money heads up against UTG's super wide range.

Not a spot that comes every day but when it does pokers is awesome.

i love it too

then i love the guys who folded going on about protecting the shorty when we are about 5 hours from the bubble

Do it on final table for best results.

And you treble up. Much the same as when you made the uber-obv ridicutez iso-squeeze on the button with K2 and binked big styley v AQ on the 22A com-flop.

every time i have tried it on FTs i have woken up with wallies how have called the OR with top 4 hands

You need to work on your binking

i am blinking quite a bit at the moment after thinking Blatch was BIatch

While you think the odds pre justify calling with this hand perhaps your lack of conviction with it doesn't. You've gotta ask how you will ever make money playing it. You lead with tp and only get one caller, yet you auto put that caller on a range that beats you ie A-8. So it makes you wonder why you would lead at all. I think the all-in dynamic distracts you from villain's play because why would villain make a large bet on the end with a showdown value hand like A-8? The funny thing is that if the river was another 8 you would readily get your chips in, and yet the bigger 8 and flopped sets, which are realistically the only hands you would think beat you come the turn, still beat you come the river.

Reading this thread and thinking about it yesterday i think ur spot on.... the big bet on the end makes no sense with showdown value other than to get me off, which it did, WP sir.... its easy in retrospect, but in the heat of battle id convinced myself i was beat and i was throwing good money after bad. I must add i almost called but the oppo had bamboozled me totally ( not hard to do i admit) and i made a poor choice..but once again thanks to u guys and ur honesty i have learnt a couple of things which i will add to playbook and next time i might just get it right...

As they say standard... if people want to limp into pots with marginals hoping to see a cheap flop and hit thats fine..if i can squeeze with fold equity and increase my stack by 40% i'm gonna pull the trigger..i was unlucky BB wakes up with a hand ...

not read all of the replies but basically you should only bet here for value as you are creating a side pot that somebody can take a shot at, therefore it needs to be a hand you are totally comfortable with.

His play is OK imo.