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the sicilian
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« Reply #15 on: November 16, 2009, 01:21:56 PM » |
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blinds 2k 4k C/l 200k me 80k
wow fold pre! pre had just over 100k ..80k after the turn bet.... u don't call 9k more into 45k in the blinds with 4k invested last to act pre ? Not with 78, no reasons ? |
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Just because you don't like it...... It doesn't mean it's not the truth
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outragous76
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« Reply #16 on: November 16, 2009, 01:27:31 PM » |
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Let's say the shorty has AA. How much do you win by betting and taking others out . . . .
As for folding pre. You miss the board way too many times to commit 13% of your stack. When you hit you don't know where you are. The call isn't terrible if you 100% know you will get table cooperation, but that clearly isn't the case.
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".....and then I spent 2 hours talking with Stu which blew my mind.........."
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the sicilian
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« Reply #17 on: November 16, 2009, 01:32:47 PM » |
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Let's say the shorty has AA. How much do you win by betting and taking others out . . . .
As for folding pre. You miss the board way too many times to commit 13% of your stack. When you hit you don't know where you are. The call isn't terrible if you 100% know you will get table cooperation, but that clearly isn't the case.
Hmmm... if he has AA and nobodys hit anything significant by the turn then his always going to win whatever i do... the call... fair enough... getting 5-1 was prob too tempting for me... |
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Just because you don't like it...... It doesn't mean it's not the truth
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outragous76
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« Reply #18 on: November 16, 2009, 01:34:47 PM » |
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The point with the AA being that your bet achieves nothing but increases the villains chances of winning.
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".....and then I spent 2 hours talking with Stu which blew my mind.........."
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EvilPie
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« Reply #19 on: November 16, 2009, 01:37:48 PM » |
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blinds 2k 4k C/l 200k me 80k
wow fold pre! pre had just over 100k ..80k after the turn bet.... u don't call 9k more into 45k in the blinds with 4k invested last to act pre ? Not with 78, no reasons ? Because you've got 8 high possibly? 78 can be a nice hand for raising in to another player with a stack but it's never been a hand for calling an all in. I think this hand is a perfect example of why you shouldn't call an all in with 78. |
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Motivational speeches at their best:
"Because thats what living is, the 6 inches in front of your face......" - Patrick Leonard - 10th May 2015
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the sicilian
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« Reply #20 on: November 16, 2009, 01:40:12 PM » |
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blinds 2k 4k C/l 200k me 80k
wow fold pre! pre had just over 100k ..80k after the turn bet.... u don't call 9k more into 45k in the blinds with 4k invested last to act pre ? Not with 78, no reasons ? Because you've got 8 high possibly? 78 can be a nice hand for raising in to another player with a stack but it's never been a hand for calling an all in. I think this hand is a perfect example of why you shouldn't call an all in with 78. Would you call a shorty allin in 1 on 1 with 2-1 odds with 7 8 |
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Just because you don't like it...... It doesn't mean it's not the truth
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gatso
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« Reply #21 on: November 16, 2009, 01:43:54 PM » |
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the only reason to call pre here is the hope that it's checked down and 5 players get to showdown and the shortie is eliminated
when you decide to bet your very marginal holding on the turn you change the dynamic of the whole hand, there's now a side pot and checking it down is not an option so the other guy kicks into action and outplays you
if you check the turn then in all likelihood so does everyone else, ditto the river and we get to showdown and knock the shortie out which was surely the only point of calling pre
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If you get to the yeasty clunge you've gone too far
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the sicilian
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« Reply #22 on: November 16, 2009, 01:53:00 PM » |
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the only reason to call pre here is the hope that it's checked down and 5 players get to showdown and the shortie is eliminated
when you decide to bet your very marginal holding on the turn you change the dynamic of the whole hand, there's now a side pot and checking it down is not an option so the other guy kicks into action and outplays you
if you check the turn then in all likelihood so does everyone else, ditto the river and we get to showdown and knock the shortie out which was surely the only point of calling pre
Fair enough.. i suppose i see 45k going begging..however if i did check it down one of the guys who folded to my bet hits a queen and wins a pot that could be mine.. I think my main question is should the man with no hand call me ? |
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Just because you don't like it...... It doesn't mean it's not the truth
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outragous76
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« Reply #23 on: November 16, 2009, 01:55:11 PM » |
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the only reason to call pre here is the hope that it's checked down and 5 players get to showdown and the shortie is eliminated
when you decide to bet your very marginal holding on the turn you change the dynamic of the whole hand, there's now a side pot and checking it down is not an option so the other guy kicks into action and outplays you
if you check the turn then in all likelihood so does everyone else, ditto the river and we get to showdown and knock the shortie out which was surely the only point of calling pre
Fair enough.. i suppose i see 45k going begging..however if i did check it down one of the guys who folded to my bet hits a queen and wins a pot that could be mine.. I think my main question is should the man with no hand call me ? yes if he thinks he can take you off it. He has walked away with an 11k profit from the hand where as you ditched 29k........................................ |
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".....and then I spent 2 hours talking with Stu which blew my mind.........."
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gatso
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« Reply #24 on: November 16, 2009, 01:59:53 PM » |
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I think my main question is should the man with no hand call me ?
yeah, absolutely. there's no way you have a premium holding as you would be raising 100% of the time from the bb and he's pretty sure you don't have air or you'd be bluffing a dry side pot so it's a fair assumption from the play so far that you caught the 7 given that you pairing the 7 is pretty likely he knows that almost any river is going to be a scare card for you so he can take down the side pot easily |
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If you get to the yeasty clunge you've gone too far
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Chompy
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« Reply #25 on: November 16, 2009, 02:09:53 PM » |
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I like the way the chip leader played this. You played it ridicutez though.
Or, more seriously, I call pre and check the 8. Don't see any point in creating an unnecessary side pot against such an unpredictable character. They're his chips to play how he wants. Shove it up your kilt.
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« Last Edit: November 16, 2009, 02:12:21 PM by Chompy »
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"I know we must all worship at the Church of Chomps, but statements like this are just plain ridic. He says he can't get a bet on, but we all know he can."
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the sicilian
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« Reply #26 on: November 16, 2009, 02:15:18 PM » |
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If i check the 8 a player who folds to my bet takes the pot...do i then kick myself as i was ahead ?
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Just because you don't like it...... It doesn't mean it's not the truth
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outragous76
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« Reply #27 on: November 16, 2009, 02:21:22 PM » |
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If i check the 8 a player who folds to my bet takes the pot...do i then kick myself as i was ahead ?
NO! You need to get the play right BEFORE you call. You call as a *ahem* 'team effort' to bust a player. If you want to get tricky - move all in preflop - doing this is much less worse (rather than better) than what you actually did. Im surprised the table didnt roast you. If you make a bet - you leave yourself with less than a pot sized bet, so you are pretty much pot committed. what is someone is in the pot with TJ or Kx - they were ahead of you pre........... but they arent gonna be upset if you win with 89 - thats life. |
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".....and then I spent 2 hours talking with Stu which blew my mind.........."
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GreekStein
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« Reply #28 on: November 16, 2009, 02:24:44 PM » |
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If i check the 8 a player who folds to my bet takes the pot...do i then kick myself as i was ahead ?
Shorty shows 99 and now has a stack over half the size of yours. Meanwhile your 8 wins 0 chips, just the same as if you'd checked and let one of the callers behind you catch his queen, except now not only are you gtd more money but you have more chips too. Just playing devils advocate here^^ but I don't like the call pre. We only have 20bbs, can't be spewing here with 78o OOP against 3 players. It just means trouble. |
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Royal Flush
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« Reply #29 on: November 16, 2009, 02:33:47 PM » |
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I'm not sure why the other guy is getting involved with no hand..
Maybe for the same reason you did pre? |
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[19:44:40] Oracle: WE'RE ALL GOING ON A SPANISH HOLIDAY! TRIGGS STABLES SHIT!
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