blonde poker forum

Live £1/£2 hand from DTD, as usual pretty deep in a lot of spots and in general playing much bigger than a standard game.

There are no straddles on in the hand and UTG limps, as does hero with  5c 5d (£500 stack), cut-off limps (£85), button makes it £12 to go (£175), Simon Nowab makes re pops to £25 from the SB (£550). First limper folds, and everyone else calls and takes a flop.

Flop comes   Td Jc 5h  (Pot £105)

Everybody checks. Turn brings the   6c

Simon leads for £75. Hero ???

Whats the best way to make the maximum from this hand? Usuallly i would lead at this flop, but with the relative short stacks behind who are going to connect with this flop alot of the time and shove for a near pot size bet, i thought Id give them a chance to get it in with AJ / KJ/ KQ type hands or air. No biters.

In the situation we find ourselves in how do you proceed with the hand and what hands do you think Simon is going to turn up here with most of the time?

From what I know of Simon he's fairly solid but capable of the odd big bluff.

Bit of a tough spot because it's been check round on the flop. I think I would flat call at this stage. C/Raising is going to look super strong and you might get a squeeze from the players behind. Only problem may be that some draws may get there on the river. If you wanna get max value I would flat the turn.

Simon may put on a draw given an action so he may fire a third bullet if blank comes off on the river

Mitch

I would shove, theres enough in the pot now, the river could open a tin of worms, you may not be in front now also.

Shove and close my eyes.

Is the check-raise always an indicator of a strong hand here?  Would you not check-raise with a weaker hand here to get Simon off the hand?  If he's on a draw or already has a big hand, a smallish re-raise won't scare him off will it? 

From what I've played with Simon he's pretty laggy.

Think I shove here but I don't know whether I ever take a card off in the hope a blank will come and we can get stacks in with Simon on the river. Also looks like we may well have turned a draw, clubs/straight on the turn etc if we do this allowing us to get value on the river. The problem with this, is there are so many action killers and if Simon is drawing we allow him to do it and will probably pay him off on a lot of rivers, bar maybe like Qc.

Think therefore I shove.

You just answered your own question Kin.

We can't really check-raise too much air here because stacks aren't deep enough in relation to the pot. Just spewy to do it in this situation with no hand anyway.

we can't really check raise someone we have position on

once the 3bettor checks the flop i would bet £60. Quite a few cards could ruin our action, make value on further streets tougher or overtake us as we are fairly multiway for a 3bet pot and we are 250bigs deep vs the 3bettor. He may peel hands like AK with his gutterball and overs (i have no idea how Simon plays).

as played i am not sure what he would 3bet and check flop with (he could have TT/JJ but he could also have loads of other hands) and if you raise here i think you effectively end the hand unless he has a huge hand. Checking the flop multiway and then raising that turn card looks pretty strong. I think calling here with position on the river is slightly better.

flopping a set in a 4way 3bet pot is pretty golden so i think i start building on the flop though.

Had Mr Nowab been drinking, that kind of affects it massively. One read is solid tricky player, other is 1 hand glass of wine other hand shovel the chips in.



With stack sizes i'd prob want to raise something small ~185, kinda depends because he's alot more happy to put it in himself than he is to call it off.

He could well have Overs/gutshot or just a delayed cbet, possibly TT/JJ.


If you flat turn and river is non club, K or Q then we're mentally golden but he may not have much of a hand to pay us off with; if you raise turn and he folds out his whiffed hands, calls his more marginal holdings and jams his combo-ish draws then we're obviously getting value on the turn. Once the river hits though if the turn has gone bet call we could be put in some really icky spots with stack sizes on clubs or a K/Q if he just leads out/open jams into us.

I really dont get the bolded bits.

Enough in the pot. A win is a win
May not be in front. playing poker most times its a gamble.
Close my eyes. A joke.

We are on about playing Simon, i would of shoved in the hope he was trying to steal and been happy with the pot, we have all given our opponents another card and regretted it.

I dont see the point in 'taking it down now' when if we're not ahead we're not taking it down and if he has nothing he cant call. I didn't meant to come across as curt. :)

I think with the players behind you, you're repping a pretty strong hand with a raise here.

I still like to flat but deffo agree that Simon's alcohol assumption deffo has to come into play with any decision here

Surely just give it a big speech and get someone to shove on you ;)

titanium

We all play differently, that's what i would of done against simon, not saying that would be my strategy against others, i thought the answer was based on playing Simon.

:)Up As I said his beverage choice often influences his gaming style!!!

Yeah I really like this.

As played I think this is prob the best route to go down though as someone else said in the thread I like a lead on the flop once the 3-bettor checks. It also makes your life easier down the streets.

If you flat the £75, and the pot goes heads up, there will be £255 in there and you will get another £150 or so out of him if he value bets worse or bluffs, or check-calls worse on the river. It would be really strange if he check-raised the river once you have flatted turn, so I wouldn't be worried about that.

What makes my brain hurt about this hand is that you can get your £150 of value on pretty much any river card, given that you have flatted the turn and under-repped your hand. You want to raise turn to protect your hand and build the pot, BUT then at least one-third of the deck will either kill your hand or kill your value on the river, if he even calls your raise.

What about the two players behind? I guess you could stay on the down-low with one player left to act, but two? You could invite them into the pot but you will have to fold some rivers. You could come out of the closet and make it £175 with £300 behind. Urggghhhhhhh but then Simon Nowab is good enough to fold his top pairs/over pairs and call with his draws, and you lose value from all the crappy hands behind you that would flat Simon's £75.

You could shove and be happy with the £180. But you have a set. You make more than £180 when the river comes a safe card, but you could lose a chunk if it comes A, K, Q, 9, 8 or club, especially in a multi-way pot. Thats half the deck.

With Mitch's image he can raise more than £185 and still get action. I 'd say there's nothing wrong with anything in between £250 and the shipping the lot, Simon will still call him sometimes as can be pretty loose. I want to get more than £185 in with so many possible draws.

Yeah but the £185 is to induce Simon to move in. He'll do this with a wider range that what he'll call a shove with.

Both very viable options tho.

I just don't like that amount, asking to get sucked out IMO but meh, each to their own.

i love 200 but would flat too occasionally.

OK,

Well i decide to flat the £75 and hope Simon pumps the river as i really cant find a hand he would take this line with. Surely this is a board he can get action on by betting out with one of the other two possible sets in this situation against 3 other players who have called a reasonable size raise pre.

The cut off puts his last 85 in and announces 'value' and the button passes.

River comes  9d and Simon checks after a short pause.

Would he ever check this river with KQ? Im 90% sure he has to bet to get value as he would be sick if i checked behind with AJ.

How much to value bet? Any more clue to what people think he might have as this is obv important in deciding the bet size (Pot £340). With the shortie being all in he is never going to come over the top of a weak bet with air as he has to show his hand down, so he either has something or he doesnt and will fold.  Suggestions???

Oh and in response to his 'physical state' he was on the old JD but was by no means drunk and was possibly steaming a little after losing a couple of pots before but deffo not on monkey raging tilt!

Bet £195, fold to a shove.

Like the bet but don't think I would fold to a shove... but then again not expecting a shove back...

I think your winding us up here.........

oh are you talking about after the river?

Fold pre. Fold flop. Fold turn.

Don't take money from DTD employees as they might decide that they hate poker and shut the place down.

Yeah obviously after the river.

I sigh call after the river anyway but it's not the right play. Chubbs is never shoving worse than a bigger set.

£155 ftw

I went for £165 (FYL You were miles away mr bean!)

Simon dwells and calls with  Aspades Ahrt

As it is if i bet the flop we can get it all in but n/m, still a nice pot....hard to put him on aces to squeeze the value out tho!

Prob should raise the turn as i think the biggest part of his range will be some kind of flush/ and or straight draw leading the turn but it all turned out rosey.  ;djinn;

Couple of points - not sure if they've been mentioned.

Calling the 3 bet preflop is really bad and just bleeding £.  You may have the implied odds vs Simon, but the BTN and CO are both short and are going to be getting it in on the flop a lot and you don't have the implied odds vs them.

I think not betting the flops really bad... Lots of turns hit gutshots and OESD that don't bet flop cos multi way not to forget oversets.  Also betting the flop gives us the initiative for the turn where we can just bet bet bet vs Simon (and others)

As played would flat turn cos doubt he really goes broke or calls with much that we have beat if we raise turn.  Bet small on river is good cos his range is fairly weak at this point.

disagree. In live cash calling the 3-bet is fine this deep.

I fold pre. You have two stacks behind you who could feasibly shove preflop but they are also too shallow to play a pot with when we hold 55 imo. If you do call pre then I wouldn't rely on the other two to build your pot for you so just bet the flop yourself vs Simon.

100% - folding is a leak

You guys realise that basically the nut situation came up and we only barely won the amount required from our preflop play... The CO/BTN just jams it in pre a fair amount (we burn £25 when this happens), even if we flop a set vs QQ+ he can still hit his 2 outs, if he has QQ he's gonna get away if a A/K flops (like 50% of the time), KK 25% etc.

+1

Also, donk out the flop something small as though you are trying to see where you stand £20 or something a 'gay bet' as its called.. if you are going for a check-raise it looks too strong imo, flop is so dry worst you are repping is like J10 and Simon must be good enough to pass Aces in a multiway pot like this. But if you are planning to check call its fine, but at least raise the turn.

Ive already said i checked the flop as im expecting this is a board a shorty would connect with and build the pot with me effectivley being in position.

Cottonbud, I was two to your left in the GUKPT ME in Blackpool the other week (nice result btw) Was the guy who had KQ in that 3 way all in with u having AK and the other bloke JJ...obv u hit the miracle gutterball to stay in....the swings of tourny poker!

Although from that day i would expect u think i am the biggest rock on the face of the earth from playing about 1 hand per level ive never been so card dead ion my m'fecking life!

My image at DTD could be described as 'loose' so to speak, and tbh Simon prob aint folding aces against me for toffee! lol

Ah Hello :)! Yeah but are you check-calling the shove or re-raising the shove? I think its fine if you are check-calling? Yeah that was my standard pot that everyone has in a torny when you need to get there, my only one suprisingly whole comp!

I didn't think you were that tight else I wouldn't of 4-bet you :D

Probably calling if the bigger of the 2 stacks shove and raising if its the smallest stack. If Simon only flats in the middle and I raise he could easily see that as me trying to protect a TPTK type of hand against a possible draw that he holds. Anyway, think this hand has been analysed enough now. Each decision on every street is pretty dependant in what your putting Simon on imo.


Oh n the hand u 4 bet me on I had absolute rags but thort i could get it through on my golden image... obviously not to be  ;grr;  U playing the Monte Carlo @ DTD? Will pop over n say hello.

Yeah I knew you were aware of your own image, afterall you wore a cap too ;) sign of an internet player lol. Yeah mate definately I'll be there, see you then for a drink or 2! :D

fyp

hahahaha! :o I'm a blonde Neil ( Blondes have more fun apparently ask Tikay), there is some1 else called James Williams who actually has that colour hair tho dont get us mixed up again ffs! My facebook was covered with GL on Luton GUKPT Final table, I was like this is amazing I do better in tournaments when I don't actually enter or turn up, Final table without entering or paying a dime sick life!

You? And card dead? Wow! Lol...

Nice score and unlucky about yesterday mate....

Aimed at me. Hes obviously jelous of my autum sunrise-esque tones!

No, just jealous of your newly inflated bankroll!

If I check the flop and one of the other stacks does bet, Simon has no idea at all about the strength of my hand and i have gained a second round of position on him on the flop in an escalated pot where he possibly put up to another £150 in. Knowing his hand now it is also possible he is coming back over the top to protect his aces.

Anyway I agree betting the flop is prob the best play and i think the call pre is marginal depending on the other 2 players likelihood to jam.

mental imo, its not like we only ever continue if we flop a set. he either has a tight range and we have true implied, or he has a wider range and we can fk with him postflop. cake/eat blablabla

+1

Also, the fact the shorties will often shove the flop can help us win a hand for stacks vs Simon too when we flop a set.

I think when I grow up, I want to be you James.

Having said that, I prob come in for a raise in the first place rather than limping.

Post more pls.... (James not Cos obv)

sounds like a "james keys doesn't post enough" whinge to me

dont tell me this state is a novelty for you

i disagree regarding shorties (see them call this a chunk more than they shove), but i think its probs neutral ev

interesting thread.

Yeh lol @ mitch in the old days

Rupert ever do anything decent?