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Title: $20 Omaha MTT Post by: Bainn on December 11, 2009, 02:16:59 AM 60 Players started with 10K, 12 min blinds, I had just dropped down from around 13K and the current average is 10345 with 57 remaining.
Blinds - 30/60 10 handed table ( Only 4 players see the flop, all others fold ) Bainn = 10,610 Oppo = 13,000 Apr Bainn cards = Ac Jc Td 9d Oppo UTG - raises to 210 Player UTG+1 - calls Bainn Mid - calls 210 (1) Player SB - calls 150 Flop = Qh Kc 7c Player SB - checks Oppo - bets 870 Player UTG+1 - folds Bainn - raises to 1740 (2) Player SB - folds Oppo - reraises to 5220 What would be the best course of action now, Oppos action suggests a set ? Bainn - goes Allin 8660 Oppo - calls 4310 Oppo shows = 2h 2d Qd Qs Turn = 5c River = Ks (1) Reraise here ? (2) Bad, should have potted ? Title: Re: $20 Omaha MTT Post by: maldini32 on December 11, 2009, 03:45:21 AM 1) Preflop i dont mind how you've played it, reraising is fine too.
2) Id deffo pot it here. On the flop your hand is a favourite versus his, you have a nuclear draw you just never play this passively well i dont. Its just an orgasmic flop. Ul Title: Re: $20 Omaha MTT Post by: Madone on December 11, 2009, 03:46:51 AM get the fucker in!
Title: Re: $20 Omaha MTT Post by: NoflopsHomer on December 11, 2009, 04:14:54 AM As played you should probably flat the reraise on the flop, purely so you can get away from a paired board on the turn (obv not folding any other card).
Then again, I'd have probably raised more on the flop and had to call all-in anyway. Title: Re: $20 Omaha MTT Post by: GreekStein on December 11, 2009, 09:45:04 AM You can rule out him overplaying aces straight away seeing as the only time he goes nutso like this on the flop is when he has the nut flush draw with his aces. Since we know that isn't possible, the only other hand realistically in his range to do this with is a set.
Given this I think the best action is to flat call his re-raise. If the turn pairs we can curse at life, but preserve a few thousand. If the board, doesn't pair, whether it hits us or not we are jamming it in. Title: Re: $20 Omaha MTT Post by: Bainn on December 11, 2009, 02:38:18 PM Thanks chaps, happy with my flat call pre but the flop, the min raise was stupid with flat calling his flop bet probably the wisest thing. Of course if shorter stacks involved the potting it becomes best ?
If I had potted it on the flop, I do have the impression that my oppo may have repotted it, so the chips may well have gone all in anyway. Title: Re: $20 Omaha MTT Post by: Bainn on December 11, 2009, 02:52:11 PM Looking at the hand again, my oppo has no redraws, so if I had reraised on the flop woulf he be obliged to repot it anyway ?
Title: Re: $20 Omaha MTT Post by: BulldozerD on December 11, 2009, 02:56:35 PM he has fullhouse redraws
the money is always likely to go in in these spots, only point of contention is whether you flat his reraise on the flop and get it in on turn or just go ahead and get it all in on the flop. seems very standard from all angles to me but i am an omaha n00b Title: Re: $20 Omaha MTT Post by: EvilPie on December 11, 2009, 05:46:20 PM You can rule out him overplaying aces straight away seeing as the only time he goes nutso like this on the flop is when he has the nut flush draw with his aces. Since we know that isn't possible, the only other hand realistically in his range to do this with is a set. Given this I think the best action is to flat call his re-raise. If the turn pairs we can curse at life, but preserve a few thousand. If the board, doesn't pair, whether it hits us or not we are jamming it in. Pretty much this really. On the flop we're about 50 50 because of his house redraws. If we do a flat call now and see a non paired brick we're still over 40% so have to get it in. I don't mind getting it in on the flop either though tbh. Our draw is huge and I can't see playing it passively as being a good thing really. I think of the 2 hands I prefer to play the set passively and look for a brick turn than vice versa. Title: Re: $20 Omaha MTT Post by: GreekStein on December 11, 2009, 08:04:02 PM You can rule out him overplaying aces straight away seeing as the only time he goes nutso like this on the flop is when he has the nut flush draw with his aces. Since we know that isn't possible, the only other hand realistically in his range to do this with is a set. Given this I think the best action is to flat call his re-raise. If the turn pairs we can curse at life, but preserve a few thousand. If the board, doesn't pair, whether it hits us or not we are jamming it in. Pretty much this really. On the flop we're about 50 50 because of his house redraws. If we do a flat call now and see a non paired brick we're still over 40% so have to get it in. I don't mind getting it in on the flop either though tbh. Our draw is huge and I can't see playing it passively as being a good thing really. I think of the 2 hands I prefer to play the set passively and look for a brick turn than vice versa. Don't agree with that Pieman, if I've got the set I want em in, for reasons of multipleness. Title: Re: $20 Omaha MTT Post by: EvilPie on December 11, 2009, 10:07:14 PM You can rule out him overplaying aces straight away seeing as the only time he goes nutso like this on the flop is when he has the nut flush draw with his aces. Since we know that isn't possible, the only other hand realistically in his range to do this with is a set. Given this I think the best action is to flat call his re-raise. If the turn pairs we can curse at life, but preserve a few thousand. If the board, doesn't pair, whether it hits us or not we are jamming it in. Pretty much this really. On the flop we're about 50 50 because of his house redraws. If we do a flat call now and see a non paired brick we're still over 40% so have to get it in. I don't mind getting it in on the flop either though tbh. Our draw is huge and I can't see playing it passively as being a good thing really. I think of the 2 hands I prefer to play the set passively and look for a brick turn than vice versa. Don't agree with that Pieman, if I've got the set I want em in, for reasons of multipleness. I didn't say I would play it passively, I'd want 'em in too. What I said was that out of the 2 if I'm going to look for a safe turn it's with the set. Title: Re: $20 Omaha MTT Post by: Bainn on December 12, 2009, 02:47:12 AM he has fullhouse redraws the money is always likely to go in in these spots, only point of contention is whether you flat his reraise on the flop and get it in on turn or just go ahead and get it all in on the flop. seems very standard from all angles to me but i am an omaha n00b What I meant to type was "No obvious redraws except the fullhouse" ;whistle; Ta for the comment though. Title: Re: $20 Omaha MTT Post by: Bainn on December 12, 2009, 02:58:43 AM You can rule out him overplaying aces straight away seeing as the only time he goes nutso like this on the flop is when he has the nut flush draw with his aces. Since we know that isn't possible, the only other hand realistically in his range to do this with is a set. Given this I think the best action is to flat call his re-raise. If the turn pairs we can curse at life, but preserve a few thousand. If the board, doesn't pair, whether it hits us or not we are jamming it in. Pretty much this really. On the flop we're about 50 50 because of his house redraws. If we do a flat call now and see a non paired brick we're still over 40% so have to get it in. I don't mind getting it in on the flop either though tbh. Our draw is huge and I can't see playing it passively as being a good thing really. I think of the 2 hands I prefer to play the set passively and look for a brick turn than vice versa. Fair point, from the sets point of view any club or straight card on the turn is going to make you sweat a little having been called on the flop, could (Should) he be calling if I pot that turn ? Title: Re: $20 Omaha MTT Post by: EvilPie on December 13, 2009, 03:38:37 AM You can rule out him overplaying aces straight away seeing as the only time he goes nutso like this on the flop is when he has the nut flush draw with his aces. Since we know that isn't possible, the only other hand realistically in his range to do this with is a set. Given this I think the best action is to flat call his re-raise. If the turn pairs we can curse at life, but preserve a few thousand. If the board, doesn't pair, whether it hits us or not we are jamming it in. Pretty much this really. On the flop we're about 50 50 because of his house redraws. If we do a flat call now and see a non paired brick we're still over 40% so have to get it in. I don't mind getting it in on the flop either though tbh. Our draw is huge and I can't see playing it passively as being a good thing really. I think of the 2 hands I prefer to play the set passively and look for a brick turn than vice versa. Fair point, from the sets point of view any club or straight card on the turn is going to make you sweat a little having been called on the flop, could (Should) he be calling if I pot that turn ? This is one of those hands that isildur and ivey will happily get their whole stack in with with either hand. It's just a cooler mate. Basically you've both got the nuts so even if you're sat ridic deep it's going in. One of you could play it passive but why the fuck would you. you've both got a monster!!! Title: Re: $20 Omaha MTT Post by: NoflopsHomer on December 13, 2009, 04:00:08 AM You can rule out him overplaying aces straight away seeing as the only time he goes nutso like this on the flop is when he has the nut flush draw with his aces. Since we know that isn't possible, the only other hand realistically in his range to do this with is a set. Given this I think the best action is to flat call his re-raise. If the turn pairs we can curse at life, but preserve a few thousand. If the board, doesn't pair, whether it hits us or not we are jamming it in. Pretty much this really. On the flop we're about 50 50 because of his house redraws. If we do a flat call now and see a non paired brick we're still over 40% so have to get it in. I don't mind getting it in on the flop either though tbh. Our draw is huge and I can't see playing it passively as being a good thing really. I think of the 2 hands I prefer to play the set passively and look for a brick turn than vice versa. Fair point, from the sets point of view any club or straight card on the turn is going to make you sweat a little having been called on the flop, could (Should) he be calling if I pot that turn ? This is one of those hands that isildur and ivey will happily get their whole stack in with with either hand. It's just a cooler mate. Basically you've both got the nuts so even if you're sat ridic deep it's going in. One of you could play it passive but why the fuck would you. you've both got a monster!!! They play cash, not tournaments. It's completely different. They can reload, you can't here in this spot. Title: Re: $20 Omaha MTT Post by: EvilPie on December 13, 2009, 04:09:46 AM You can rule out him overplaying aces straight away seeing as the only time he goes nutso like this on the flop is when he has the nut flush draw with his aces. Since we know that isn't possible, the only other hand realistically in his range to do this with is a set. Given this I think the best action is to flat call his re-raise. If the turn pairs we can curse at life, but preserve a few thousand. If the board, doesn't pair, whether it hits us or not we are jamming it in. Pretty much this really. On the flop we're about 50 50 because of his house redraws. If we do a flat call now and see a non paired brick we're still over 40% so have to get it in. I don't mind getting it in on the flop either though tbh. Our draw is huge and I can't see playing it passively as being a good thing really. I think of the 2 hands I prefer to play the set passively and look for a brick turn than vice versa. Fair point, from the sets point of view any club or straight card on the turn is going to make you sweat a little having been called on the flop, could (Should) he be calling if I pot that turn ? This is one of those hands that isildur and ivey will happily get their whole stack in with with either hand. It's just a cooler mate. Basically you've both got the nuts so even if you're sat ridic deep it's going in. One of you could play it passive but why the fuck would you. you've both got a monster!!! They play cash, not tournaments. It's completely different. They can reload, you can't here in this spot. It's not completely different at all. It's a bit different but at the end of the day both of them has a hand with minimum of about 50% equity against the other guy. Neither can pass their hand and neither should. Yes it would be wise to flat and see a safe turn for either player but that assumes that they know the other guy's holding. Without that useful knowledge you just need to get the lot in on the turn whilst you know that even at worst case you're about 50% Title: Re: $20 Omaha MTT Post by: NoflopsHomer on December 13, 2009, 04:23:26 AM You can rule out him overplaying aces straight away seeing as the only time he goes nutso like this on the flop is when he has the nut flush draw with his aces. Since we know that isn't possible, the only other hand realistically in his range to do this with is a set. Given this I think the best action is to flat call his re-raise. If the turn pairs we can curse at life, but preserve a few thousand. If the board, doesn't pair, whether it hits us or not we are jamming it in. Pretty much this really. On the flop we're about 50 50 because of his house redraws. If we do a flat call now and see a non paired brick we're still over 40% so have to get it in. I don't mind getting it in on the flop either though tbh. Our draw is huge and I can't see playing it passively as being a good thing really. I think of the 2 hands I prefer to play the set passively and look for a brick turn than vice versa. Fair point, from the sets point of view any club or straight card on the turn is going to make you sweat a little having been called on the flop, could (Should) he be calling if I pot that turn ? This is one of those hands that isildur and ivey will happily get their whole stack in with with either hand. It's just a cooler mate. Basically you've both got the nuts so even if you're sat ridic deep it's going in. One of you could play it passive but why the fuck would you. you've both got a monster!!! They play cash, not tournaments. It's completely different. They can reload, you can't here in this spot. It's not completely different at all. It's a bit different but at the end of the day both of them has a hand with minimum of about 50% equity against the other guy. Neither can pass their hand and neither should. Yes it would be wise to flat and see a safe turn for either player but that assumes that they know the other guy's holding. Without that useful knowledge you just need to get the lot in on the turn whilst you know that even at worst case you're about 50% You're missing the point, if we have no chips we're out of the tournament, when we get 3bet here vs a guy who raises preflop and pots/3bets a big drawing flop. We don't lose anything by just flat-calling, but we stop ourselves from being eliminated when the board is paired on the turn. Title: Re: $20 Omaha MTT Post by: Bainn on December 13, 2009, 07:29:44 PM Okay, I think there is merit to taking the risk now as winning the pot makes me chip leader and then I can pressure the weaker players, or is that nonsense ?
Title: Re: $20 Omaha MTT Post by: Madone on December 13, 2009, 07:41:45 PM You lot are thinking way to much about this...u both have flopped the world and you are getting it in everyday of the week!
Title: Re: $20 Omaha MTT Post by: GreekStein on December 13, 2009, 08:07:00 PM You lot are thinking way to much about this...u both have flopped the world and you are getting it in everyday of the week! Yeah but you're missing the point. No-one is saying we aren't getting it in. Me and Flops are just arguing that the best way to do it is flat the flop and get it in on any unpaired turn. Villains hand is face up as a set so there's no point getting all in on the flop when we can preserve half our stack if it pairs. If we hit or miss it's going in anyway. Title: Re: $20 Omaha MTT Post by: GreekStein on December 13, 2009, 08:08:20 PM Okay, I think there is merit to taking the risk now as winning the pot makes me chip leader and then I can pressure the weaker players, or is that nonsense ? Not nonsense obv. Title: Re: $20 Omaha MTT Post by: Bainn on December 13, 2009, 10:06:22 PM Okay, I think there is merit to taking the risk now as winning the pot makes me chip leader and then I can pressure the weaker players, or is that nonsense ? Not nonsense obv. Groovy. Concur with the best play in a tournament situation is to flat post flop & pot non paired turn, in cash though it's grrovy getting it all in on the flop. Title: Re: $20 Omaha MTT Post by: GreekStein on December 13, 2009, 10:26:39 PM Okay, I think there is merit to taking the risk now as winning the pot makes me chip leader and then I can pressure the weaker players, or is that nonsense ? Not nonsense obv. Groovy. Concur with the best play in a tournament situation is to flat post flop & pot non paired turn, in cash though it's grrovy getting it all in on the flop. Nah I play the hand the same in cash and donkaments. Why lose money in cash when the turn pairs? No reason to get it all in on the flop. In cash we can just push small edges whereas in tournaments we have to be a little more concerned for our tournament life as we can't just reload. Title: Re: $20 Omaha MTT Post by: Bainn on December 13, 2009, 10:58:37 PM Okay, I think there is merit to taking the risk now as winning the pot makes me chip leader and then I can pressure the weaker players, or is that nonsense ? Not nonsense obv. Groovy. Concur with the best play in a tournament situation is to flat post flop & pot non paired turn, in cash though it's grrovy getting it all in on the flop. Nah I play the hand the same in cash and donkaments. Why lose money in cash when the turn pairs? No reason to get it all in on the flop. In cash we can just push small edges whereas in tournaments we have to be a little more concerned for our tournament life as we can't just reload. Cheers Cos. Title: Re: $20 Omaha MTT Post by: GreekStein on December 13, 2009, 11:41:10 PM Okay, I think there is merit to taking the risk now as winning the pot makes me chip leader and then I can pressure the weaker players, or is that nonsense ? Not nonsense obv. Groovy. Concur with the best play in a tournament situation is to flat post flop & pot non paired turn, in cash though it's grrovy getting it all in on the flop. Nah I play the hand the same in cash and donkaments. Why lose money in cash when the turn pairs? No reason to get it all in on the flop. In cash we can just push small edges whereas in tournaments we have to be a little more concerned for our tournament life as we can't just reload. Cheers Cos. You're welcome, Squire :P Title: Re: $20 Omaha MTT Post by: EvilPie on December 15, 2009, 02:12:59 PM You lot are thinking way to much about this...u both have flopped the world and you are getting it in everyday of the week! Yeah but you're missing the point. No-one is saying we aren't getting it in. Me and Flops are just arguing that the best way to do it is flat the flop and get it in on any unpaired turn. Villains hand is face up as a set so there's no point getting all in on the flop when we can preserve half our stack if it pairs. If we hit or miss it's going in anyway. So we don't want to get it in now while we're 50 50 but we're happy to get it in on a brick turn when we drop about 10% and go 40 60? Just makes no sense. Title: Re: $20 Omaha MTT Post by: GreekStein on December 15, 2009, 02:19:03 PM You lot are thinking way to much about this...u both have flopped the world and you are getting it in everyday of the week! Yeah but you're missing the point. No-one is saying we aren't getting it in. Me and Flops are just arguing that the best way to do it is flat the flop and get it in on any unpaired turn. Villains hand is face up as a set so there's no point getting all in on the flop when we can preserve half our stack if it pairs. If we hit or miss it's going in anyway. So we don't want to get it in now while we're 50 50 but we're happy to get it in on a brick turn when we drop about 10% and go 40 60? Just makes no sense. Are you levelling Matt? I'm not sure. Title: Re: $20 Omaha MTT Post by: EvilPie on December 15, 2009, 02:36:49 PM You lot are thinking way to much about this...u both have flopped the world and you are getting it in everyday of the week! Yeah but you're missing the point. No-one is saying we aren't getting it in. Me and Flops are just arguing that the best way to do it is flat the flop and get it in on any unpaired turn. Villains hand is face up as a set so there's no point getting all in on the flop when we can preserve half our stack if it pairs. If we hit or miss it's going in anyway. So we don't want to get it in now while we're 50 50 but we're happy to get it in on a brick turn when we drop about 10% and go 40 60? Just makes no sense. Are you levelling Matt? I'm not sure. No mate I'm really not levelling. Honest!!!! If we see a brick turn then we're happy to get it all in. I understand this because we're 40% and we haven't got to put much more in. But the simple fact is that no matter what happens on the turn we were more likely to win the hand on the flop. Title: Re: $20 Omaha MTT Post by: GreekStein on December 15, 2009, 02:58:43 PM You lot are thinking way to much about this...u both have flopped the world and you are getting it in everyday of the week! Yeah but you're missing the point. No-one is saying we aren't getting it in. Me and Flops are just arguing that the best way to do it is flat the flop and get it in on any unpaired turn. Villains hand is face up as a set so there's no point getting all in on the flop when we can preserve half our stack if it pairs. If we hit or miss it's going in anyway. So we don't want to get it in now while we're 50 50 but we're happy to get it in on a brick turn when we drop about 10% and go 40 60? Just makes no sense. Are you levelling Matt? I'm not sure. No mate I'm really not levelling. Honest!!!! If we see a brick turn then we're happy to get it all in. I understand this because we're 40% and we haven't got to put much more in. But the simple fact is that no matter what happens on the turn we were more likely to win the hand on the flop. I'm struggling to see your point though Mattias. On the turn we're also getting a better price than we would be when sticking it all in on the flop. The guy with the set can't pass anyway as he'll always have a house redraw whereas sometimes we won't have a redraw when the board pairs on the turn. Title: Re: $20 Omaha MTT Post by: EvilPie on December 15, 2009, 04:07:37 PM You lot are thinking way to much about this...u both have flopped the world and you are getting it in everyday of the week! Yeah but you're missing the point. No-one is saying we aren't getting it in. Me and Flops are just arguing that the best way to do it is flat the flop and get it in on any unpaired turn. Villains hand is face up as a set so there's no point getting all in on the flop when we can preserve half our stack if it pairs. If we hit or miss it's going in anyway. So we don't want to get it in now while we're 50 50 but we're happy to get it in on a brick turn when we drop about 10% and go 40 60? Just makes no sense. Are you levelling Matt? I'm not sure. No mate I'm really not levelling. Honest!!!! If we see a brick turn then we're happy to get it all in. I understand this because we're 40% and we haven't got to put much more in. But the simple fact is that no matter what happens on the turn we were more likely to win the hand on the flop. I'm struggling to see your point though Mattias. On the turn we're also getting a better price than we would be when sticking it all in on the flop. The guy with the set can't pass anyway as he'll always have a house redraw whereas sometimes we won't have a redraw when the board pairs on the turn. I'm struggling to see your point though Cosmonaught. On the flop we are much better off than on the turn. We could bat this backwards and forwards all day. Title: Re: $20 Omaha MTT Post by: GreekStein on December 15, 2009, 04:16:53 PM You lot are thinking way to much about this...u both have flopped the world and you are getting it in everyday of the week! Yeah but you're missing the point. No-one is saying we aren't getting it in. Me and Flops are just arguing that the best way to do it is flat the flop and get it in on any unpaired turn. Villains hand is face up as a set so there's no point getting all in on the flop when we can preserve half our stack if it pairs. If we hit or miss it's going in anyway. So we don't want to get it in now while we're 50 50 but we're happy to get it in on a brick turn when we drop about 10% and go 40 60? Just makes no sense. Are you levelling Matt? I'm not sure. No mate I'm really not levelling. Honest!!!! If we see a brick turn then we're happy to get it all in. I understand this because we're 40% and we haven't got to put much more in. But the simple fact is that no matter what happens on the turn we were more likely to win the hand on the flop. I'm struggling to see your point though Mattias. On the turn we're also getting a better price than we would be when sticking it all in on the flop. The guy with the set can't pass anyway as he'll always have a house redraw whereas sometimes we won't have a redraw when the board pairs on the turn. I'm struggling to see your point though Cosmonaught. On the flop we are much better off than on the turn. We could bat this backwards and forwards all day. K lets put it a different way. Find me one advantage of getting it in on the flop that outweighs getting it in on the turn. Title: Re: $20 Omaha MTT Post by: NoflopsHomer on December 15, 2009, 04:18:46 PM On the flop we are much better off than on the turn. This is irrelevant if we're putting it on the turn anyway of an unpaired board. Cos can't really explain it better. If we assume a set with no other cards having been paired, that means there's 7 cards that can pair the board on the turn, so following Cos' way, he'll save the rest of his stack roughly 14% of the time in the tournament whereas you'll always completely do yours. Title: Re: $20 Omaha MTT Post by: EvilPie on December 15, 2009, 04:22:43 PM On the flop we are much better off than on the turn. This is irrelevant if we're putting it on the turn anyway of an unpaired board. Cos can't really explain it better. If we assume a set with no other cards having been paired, that means there's 7 cards that can pair the board on the turn, so following Cos' way, he'll save the rest of his stack roughly 14% of the time in the tournament whereas you'll always completely do yours. Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee. Early bath :) Title: Re: $20 Omaha MTT Post by: Bainn on December 16, 2009, 01:33:01 AM On the flop we are much better off than on the turn. This is irrelevant if we're putting it on the turn anyway of an unpaired board. Cos can't really explain it better. If we assume a set with no other cards having been paired, that means there's 7 cards that can pair the board on the turn, so following Cos' way, he'll save the rest of his stack roughly 14% of the time in the tournament whereas you'll always completely do yours. Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee. Early bath :) LOL |