$20 Omaha MTT

[EvilPie]

You can rule out him overplaying aces straight away seeing as the only time he goes nutso like this on the flop is when he has the nut flush draw with his aces. Since we know that isn't possible, the only other hand realistically in his range to do this with is a set.

Given this I think the best action is to flat call his re-raise. If the turn pairs we can curse at life, but preserve a few thousand.

If the board, doesn't pair, whether it hits us or not we are jamming it in.

Pretty much this really. On the flop we're about 50 50 because of his house redraws.

If we do a flat call now and see a non paired brick we're still over 40% so have to get it in.

I don't mind getting it in on the flop either though tbh. Our draw is huge and I can't see playing it passively as being a good thing really. I think of the 2 hands I prefer to play the set passively and look for a brick turn than vice versa.

Fair point, from the sets point of view any club or straight card on the turn is going to make you sweat a little having been called on the flop, could (Should) he be calling if I pot that turn ?

This is one of those hands that isildur and ivey will happily get their whole stack in with with either hand. It's just a cooler mate. Basically you've both got the nuts so even if you're sat ridic deep it's going in. One of you could play it passive but why the fuck would you. you've both got a monster!!!

They play cash, not tournaments. It's completely different. They can reload, you can't here in this spot.

It's not completely different at all. It's a bit different but at the end of the day both of them has a hand with minimum of about 50% equity against the other guy. Neither can pass their hand and neither should.

Yes it would be wise to flat and see a safe turn for either player but that assumes that they know the other guy's holding. Without that useful knowledge you just need to get the lot in on the turn whilst you know that even at worst case you're about 50%

[NoflopsHomer]

You can rule out him overplaying aces straight away seeing as the only time he goes nutso like this on the flop is when he has the nut flush draw with his aces. Since we know that isn't possible, the only other hand realistically in his range to do this with is a set.

Given this I think the best action is to flat call his re-raise. If the turn pairs we can curse at life, but preserve a few thousand.

If the board, doesn't pair, whether it hits us or not we are jamming it in.

Pretty much this really. On the flop we're about 50 50 because of his house redraws.

If we do a flat call now and see a non paired brick we're still over 40% so have to get it in.

I don't mind getting it in on the flop either though tbh. Our draw is huge and I can't see playing it passively as being a good thing really. I think of the 2 hands I prefer to play the set passively and look for a brick turn than vice versa.

Fair point, from the sets point of view any club or straight card on the turn is going to make you sweat a little having been called on the flop, could (Should) he be calling if I pot that turn ?

This is one of those hands that isildur and ivey will happily get their whole stack in with with either hand. It's just a cooler mate. Basically you've both got the nuts so even if you're sat ridic deep it's going in. One of you could play it passive but why the fuck would you. you've both got a monster!!!

They play cash, not tournaments. It's completely different. They can reload, you can't here in this spot.

It's not completely different at all. It's a bit different but at the end of the day both of them has a hand with minimum of about 50% equity against the other guy. Neither can pass their hand and neither should.

Yes it would be wise to flat and see a safe turn for either player but that assumes that they know the other guy's holding. Without that useful knowledge you just need to get the lot in on the turn whilst you know that even at worst case you're about 50%

You're missing the point, if we have no chips we're out of the tournament, when we get 3bet here vs a guy who raises preflop and pots/3bets a big drawing flop. We don't lose anything by just flat-calling, but we stop ourselves from being eliminated when the board is paired on the turn.

[Bainn]

Okay, I think there is merit to taking the risk now as winning the pot makes me chip leader and then I can pressure the weaker players, or is that nonsense ?

[Madone]

You lot are thinking way to much about this...u both have flopped the world and you are getting it in everyday of the week!

[GreekStein]

You lot are thinking way to much about this...u both have flopped the world and you are getting it in everyday of the week!

Yeah but you're missing the point. No-one is saying we aren't getting it in.

Me and Flops are just arguing that the best way to do it is flat the flop and get it in on any unpaired turn. Villains hand is face up as a set so there's no point getting all in on the flop when we can preserve half our stack if it pairs. If we hit or miss it's going in anyway.

[GreekStein]

Okay, I think there is merit to taking the risk now as winning the pot makes me chip leader and then I can pressure the weaker players, or is that nonsense ?

Not nonsense obv.

[Bainn]

Okay, I think there is merit to taking the risk now as winning the pot makes me chip leader and then I can pressure the weaker players, or is that nonsense ?

Not nonsense obv.

Groovy.

Concur with the best play in a tournament situation is to flat post flop & pot non paired turn, in cash though it's grrovy getting it all in on the flop.

[GreekStein]

Okay, I think there is merit to taking the risk now as winning the pot makes me chip leader and then I can pressure the weaker players, or is that nonsense ?

Not nonsense obv.

Groovy.

Concur with the best play in a tournament situation is to flat post flop & pot non paired turn, in cash though it's grrovy getting it all in on the flop.

Nah I play the hand the same in cash and donkaments. Why lose money in cash when the turn pairs? No reason to get it all in on the flop.

In cash we can just push small edges whereas in tournaments we have to be a little more concerned for our tournament life as we can't just reload.

[Bainn]

Okay, I think there is merit to taking the risk now as winning the pot makes me chip leader and then I can pressure the weaker players, or is that nonsense ?

Not nonsense obv.

Groovy.

Concur with the best play in a tournament situation is to flat post flop & pot non paired turn, in cash though it's grrovy getting it all in on the flop.

Nah I play the hand the same in cash and donkaments. Why lose money in cash when the turn pairs? No reason to get it all in on the flop.

In cash we can just push small edges whereas in tournaments we have to be a little more concerned for our tournament life as we can't just reload.

Cheers Cos.

[GreekStein]

Okay, I think there is merit to taking the risk now as winning the pot makes me chip leader and then I can pressure the weaker players, or is that nonsense ?

Not nonsense obv.

Groovy.

Concur with the best play in a tournament situation is to flat post flop & pot non paired turn, in cash though it's grrovy getting it all in on the flop.

Nah I play the hand the same in cash and donkaments. Why lose money in cash when the turn pairs? No reason to get it all in on the flop.

In cash we can just push small edges whereas in tournaments we have to be a little more concerned for our tournament life as we can't just reload.

Cheers Cos.

You're welcome, Squire

[EvilPie]

You lot are thinking way to much about this...u both have flopped the world and you are getting it in everyday of the week!

Yeah but you're missing the point. No-one is saying we aren't getting it in.

Me and Flops are just arguing that the best way to do it is flat the flop and get it in on any unpaired turn. Villains hand is face up as a set so there's no point getting all in on the flop when we can preserve half our stack if it pairs. If we hit or miss it's going in anyway.

So we don't want to get it in now while we're 50 50 but we're happy to get it in on a brick turn when we drop about 10% and go 40 60?

Just makes no sense.

[GreekStein]

You lot are thinking way to much about this...u both have flopped the world and you are getting it in everyday of the week!

Yeah but you're missing the point. No-one is saying we aren't getting it in.

Me and Flops are just arguing that the best way to do it is flat the flop and get it in on any unpaired turn. Villains hand is face up as a set so there's no point getting all in on the flop when we can preserve half our stack if it pairs. If we hit or miss it's going in anyway.

So we don't want to get it in now while we're 50 50 but we're happy to get it in on a brick turn when we drop about 10% and go 40 60?

Just makes no sense.

Are you levelling Matt? I'm not sure.

[EvilPie]

You lot are thinking way to much about this...u both have flopped the world and you are getting it in everyday of the week!

Yeah but you're missing the point. No-one is saying we aren't getting it in.

Me and Flops are just arguing that the best way to do it is flat the flop and get it in on any unpaired turn. Villains hand is face up as a set so there's no point getting all in on the flop when we can preserve half our stack if it pairs. If we hit or miss it's going in anyway.

So we don't want to get it in now while we're 50 50 but we're happy to get it in on a brick turn when we drop about 10% and go 40 60?

Just makes no sense.

Are you levelling Matt? I'm not sure.

No mate I'm really not levelling. Honest!!!!

If we see a brick turn then we're happy to get it all in. I understand this because we're 40% and we haven't got to put much more in.

But the simple fact is that no matter what happens on the turn we were more likely to win the hand on the flop.

[GreekStein]

You lot are thinking way to much about this...u both have flopped the world and you are getting it in everyday of the week!

Yeah but you're missing the point. No-one is saying we aren't getting it in.

Me and Flops are just arguing that the best way to do it is flat the flop and get it in on any unpaired turn. Villains hand is face up as a set so there's no point getting all in on the flop when we can preserve half our stack if it pairs. If we hit or miss it's going in anyway.

So we don't want to get it in now while we're 50 50 but we're happy to get it in on a brick turn when we drop about 10% and go 40 60?

Just makes no sense.

Are you levelling Matt? I'm not sure.

No mate I'm really not levelling. Honest!!!!

If we see a brick turn then we're happy to get it all in. I understand this because we're 40% and we haven't got to put much more in.

But the simple fact is that no matter what happens on the turn we were more likely to win the hand on the flop.

I'm struggling to see your point though Mattias.

On the turn we're also getting a better price than we would be when sticking it all in on the flop.

The guy with the set can't pass anyway as he'll always have a house redraw whereas sometimes we won't have a redraw when the board pairs on the turn.

[EvilPie]

You lot are thinking way to much about this...u both have flopped the world and you are getting it in everyday of the week!

Yeah but you're missing the point. No-one is saying we aren't getting it in.

Me and Flops are just arguing that the best way to do it is flat the flop and get it in on any unpaired turn. Villains hand is face up as a set so there's no point getting all in on the flop when we can preserve half our stack if it pairs. If we hit or miss it's going in anyway.

So we don't want to get it in now while we're 50 50 but we're happy to get it in on a brick turn when we drop about 10% and go 40 60?

Just makes no sense.

Are you levelling Matt? I'm not sure.

No mate I'm really not levelling. Honest!!!!

If we see a brick turn then we're happy to get it all in. I understand this because we're 40% and we haven't got to put much more in.

But the simple fact is that no matter what happens on the turn we were more likely to win the hand on the flop.

I'm struggling to see your point though Mattias.

On the turn we're also getting a better price than we would be when sticking it all in on the flop.

The guy with the set can't pass anyway as he'll always have a house redraw whereas sometimes we won't have a redraw when the board pairs on the turn.

I'm struggling to see your point though Cosmonaught.

On the flop we are much better off than on the turn.

We could bat this backwards and forwards all day.