blonde poker forum

$.50/$1 cash game on Ongame network. Full ring....
Grabbed by Holdem Manager (http://www.holdemmanager.net)
NL Holdem $1(BB) Replayer
Hero ($103) - I am about 17%/8%, probably 3-bet, 4-bet more than most, though very player dependent
BB ($17) - standard short-stacker 9%/8%, will try to steal/squeeze quite often
UTG ($100)
UTG+1 ($94.90)
UTG+2 ($57.20)
MP1 ($112) - only played about 50 hands but 30%/0% so far i.e. first raise
MP2 ($67.75)
CO ($100)
BTN ($94.50) - tight passive over about 500 hands

Dealt to Hero  Tc Td

fold, fold, fold, MP1 raises to $3, fold, fold, BTN calls $3, Hero calls $2.50, BB raises to $17 (AI), MP1 calls $14, BTN calls $14, Hero ??????

OK my thinking so far in the hand. MP1 has been very loose passive so far, so am presuming they have some sort of decent hand here, BTN is pretty straightforward and passive, BB will often try to squeeze pre-flop in this scenario.

I'm calling $3 here knowing if BTNBB shoves and the other two fold I am snap calling. If he folds and we take a flop 3 handed I am in this hand to set-mine.

When he shoves and they both call, it's a different situation. What do you do now? Set-mine vs two players for almost 1/5 of your stack pre-flop, fold, or shove?

Edited: to fix mistake re who I thought might shove pre..

Fist pump shove.

Never set mine here that's just silly.

Fold if you really think MP1 is uber strong but I wouldn't after 50 hands. Don't worry about button.

this

Thanks for the replies. I'll post the rest of the hand later. Interested to see if anyone thinks differently to the answers so far.

lol what do you put them all on?  This is full ring nit world.

I'm folding without too much thought.

More inclined to agree with Doubleup here, if we are shoving we aren't doing it for value. We are doing it to bluff MP1 off a JJ,QQ type hand.

No folding here

Shove and shove hard

I put them on the usual its worth flatting $3, ooh i have $3 i best call $14 even though i have  6c 4c.

Technically they are correct and ahead as they are green cards.

You'd be surprised how nitty these games are. Someone has Queens. Standard

the only concern here is the original raiser, and there is no way he is flatting 14 OOP with a monster with 2 people behind that probably arent folding either. his range is very wide, here, and i think we can crop the top few % off given the action. I can only see us being beat by JJ really.

is he ever flatting AA KK QQ?

I've seen people flat the very top of their range multi way. It's like they don't want to commit anymore chips then they have to until they see the flop

This is why I don't play full ring nit world cash games. I suck at them!!

lol. Why are you offering advice then?

just think so much of their range include suited connectors, broadways and mid pairs that a shove has got to be the way to go

Read on MP1
only played about 50 hands but 30%/0% so far i.e. first raise

Because this is what I would do in this situation.

If I raise 10 10, see a short stack raise and 2 others do a flat call I'm jumping up and down, doing cart wheels and thinking "free money".

The question was regarding short stack dynamics. In this situation the short stack has made our play easy. Fist pump shove.

Think live cash this is an easy shove (!7 is probably winning live)

Online it's closer. Not saying a shove is wrong but I'm cert not fist pumping. More sigh shoving

Funny you should say that. Here's how it played out...

Think most would agree calling is bad. So fold or shove time.

When MP1 called after raising first in, my immediate thought was two big cards that weren't AK (cos presumably that's an insta-shove). So, maybe AJ, KQ, something like that. Either way, I'm ahead, so I'll have some of that.

When BTN cold-calls too, I was thinking low or middle pair, or maybe a strongish suited hand that he just can't resist seeing a flop with - A9s, KJs, something like that. Again, I felt I was probably ahead.

I wasn't so much concerned about an overpair, but I was steeling myself for dodging a lot of bullets. I was wrong....

fold, fold, fold, MP1 raises to $3, fold, fold, BTN calls $3, Hero calls $2.50, BB raises to $17 (AI), MP1 calls $14, BTN calls $14, Hero raises to $103 (AI), fold, BTN calls $77.50 (AI)

FLOP ($224)  Qd 8d  Ks

TURN ($224) Qd 8d  Ks  6c

RIVER ($224) Qd 8d  Ks  6c  Kc

BB shows  Ts Aspades
(Pre 30%, Flop 23.6%, Turn 11.9%)

BTN shows  Jc Jd
(Pre 61%, Flop 72.4%, Turn 85.7%)

Hero shows  Tc Td
(Pre 9%, Flop 4.0%, Turn 2.4%)

BTN wins $221

Initially my thought was OMG button you play JJ so bad! However, to give him credit, he took every second available before he made the call, and thinking back on it, the way the hand played out, I've begun to think the way I played the hand screamed middle pair, and it was a good call.

Amusingly MP1 who made the first raise and ultimately folded to my shove then went ballistic in chat, not at me specifically but life in general, about what a bad fold he made. So I presume I either bluffed QQ out the pot, or else he had something like KQ/KJ and would have binked. (Assuming he didn't fold AK!)

So, I'm wondering whether I should be folding TT in this circumstance, or would this hand have played exactly the same if JJ was actually 99. I think it's a marginal one, but it certainly keeps life interesting. I'm interested in how other folk see this scenario. Should my shoving range be narrower?

Incidentally, I don't think these games are *quite* as nitty as some people think. There are some real rocks, but there are some very odd players kicking about. I'll post another hand below as an illustration of that!

Didn't want to clog up that last post with too much hand history, so here's another from the same session to illustrate not everyone plays quite so nitty. Sure AA v KK is not too unusual, but check out SB and UTG+1...

Grabbed by Holdem Manager (http://www.holdemmanager.net)
NL Holdem $1(BB) Replayer
SB ($164)
BB ($142)
UTG ($112)
UTG+1 ($49.40)
UTG+2 ($63.70)
MP1 ($59.25)
MP2 ($134)
Hero ($103)
BTN ($16.50)

Dealt to Hero  Ahrt Ad

fold, UTG+1 calls $1, fold, fold, MP2 raises to $5, Hero raises to $17.50, fold, SB calls $17, fold, UTG+1 raises to $30, MP2 raises to $134 (AI), Hero calls $85.50 (AI), fold, UTG+1 calls $19.40 (AI)

FLOP ($273)  6c 5d Qh

TURN ($273) 6c 5d Qh  4h

RIVER ($273) 6c 5d Qh  4h  6d

UTG+1 shows  Td 8d
(Pre 19%, Flop 10.4%, Turn 9.5%)

MP2 shows  Ks Kh
(Pre 18%, Flop 8.1%, Turn 4.8%)

Hero shows  Ahrt Ad
(Pre 63%, Flop 81.5%, Turn 85.7%)

Hero wins $270


Off to the pub now, so if anyone has more input on this I'll be back tomorrow when the hangover allows.

Div - I've started a full ring thread elsewhere - it is unbl nitty, if you aren't making folds that rupture your spleen twice an hour you aren't playing right. 

I know what you mean. There are some players I find myself set-mining kings against.

jam, have autotopup clicked.