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Author Topic: Short Stack Dynamics - Cash Game  (Read 2834 times)
George2Loose
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« Reply #15 on: January 29, 2010, 03:38:22 PM »

Fist pump shove.


lol what do you put them all on?  This is full ring nit world.

I'm folding without too much thought.

More inclined to agree with Doubleup here, if we are shoving we aren't doing it for value. We are doing it to bluff MP1 off a JJ,QQ type hand.



This is why I don't play full ring nit world cash games. I suck at them!!

lol. Why are you offering advice then?

Because this is what I would do in this situation.

If I raise 10 10, see a short stack raise and 2 others do a flat call I'm jumping up and down, doing cart wheels and thinking "free money".

The question was regarding short stack dynamics. In this situation the short stack has made our play easy. Fist pump shove.

Think live cash this is an easy shove (!7 is probably winning live)

Online it's closer. Not saying a shove is wrong but I'm cert not fist pumping. More sigh shoving
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Ole Ole Ole Ole!
Div
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« Reply #16 on: January 29, 2010, 05:35:23 PM »

Online it's closer. Not saying a shove is wrong but I'm cert not fist pumping. More sigh shoving

Funny you should say that. Here's how it played out...

Think most would agree calling is bad. So fold or shove time.

When MP1 called after raising first in, my immediate thought was two big cards that weren't AK (cos presumably that's an insta-shove). So, maybe AJ, KQ, something like that. Either way, I'm ahead, so I'll have some of that.

When BTN cold-calls too, I was thinking low or middle pair, or maybe a strongish suited hand that he just can't resist seeing a flop with - A9s, KJs, something like that. Again, I felt I was probably ahead.

I wasn't so much concerned about an overpair, but I was steeling myself for dodging a lot of bullets. I was wrong....

fold, fold, fold, MP1 raises to $3, fold, fold, BTN calls $3, Hero calls $2.50, BB raises to $17 (AI), MP1 calls $14, BTN calls $14, Hero raises to $103 (AI), fold, BTN calls $77.50 (AI)

FLOP ($224)   

TURN ($224)    

RIVER ($224)      

BB shows 
(Pre 30%, Flop 23.6%, Turn 11.9%)

BTN shows 
(Pre 61%, Flop 72.4%, Turn 85.7%)

Hero shows 
(Pre 9%, Flop 4.0%, Turn 2.4%)

BTN wins $221

Initially my thought was OMG button you play JJ so bad! However, to give him credit, he took every second available before he made the call, and thinking back on it, the way the hand played out, I've begun to think the way I played the hand screamed middle pair, and it was a good call.

Amusingly MP1 who made the first raise and ultimately folded to my shove then went ballistic in chat, not at me specifically but life in general, about what a bad fold he made. So I presume I either bluffed QQ out the pot, or else he had something like KQ/KJ and would have binked. (Assuming he didn't fold AK!)

So, I'm wondering whether I should be folding TT in this circumstance, or would this hand have played exactly the same if JJ was actually 99. I think it's a marginal one, but it certainly keeps life interesting. I'm interested in how other folk see this scenario. Should my shoving range be narrower?

Incidentally, I don't think these games are *quite* as nitty as some people think. There are some real rocks, but there are some very odd players kicking about. I'll post another hand below as an illustration of that!
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'Price is what you pay. Value is what you get.'
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Div
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« Reply #17 on: January 29, 2010, 05:41:11 PM »

Didn't want to clog up that last post with too much hand history, so here's another from the same session to illustrate not everyone plays quite so nitty. Sure AA v KK is not too unusual, but check out SB and UTG+1...

Grabbed by Holdem Manager
NL Holdem $1(BB) Replayer
SB ($164)
BB ($142)
UTG ($112)
UTG+1 ($49.40)
UTG+2 ($63.70)
MP1 ($59.25)
MP2 ($134)
Hero ($103)
BTN ($16.50)

Dealt to Hero 

fold, UTG+1 calls $1, fold, fold, MP2 raises to $5, Hero raises to $17.50, fold, SB calls $17, fold, UTG+1 raises to $30, MP2 raises to $134 (AI), Hero calls $85.50 (AI), fold, UTG+1 calls $19.40 (AI)

FLOP ($273) 

TURN ($273)  

RIVER ($273)    

UTG+1 shows 
(Pre 19%, Flop 10.4%, Turn 9.5%)

MP2 shows 
(Pre 18%, Flop 8.1%, Turn 4.8%)

Hero shows 
(Pre 63%, Flop 81.5%, Turn 85.7%)

Hero wins $270


Off to the pub now, so if anyone has more input on this I'll be back tomorrow when the hangover allows.
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'Price is what you pay. Value is what you get.'
- Warren Buffett

http://pokerdiv.blogspot.com
doubleup
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« Reply #18 on: January 29, 2010, 10:58:25 PM »


Div - I've started a full ring thread elsewhere - it is unbl nitty, if you aren't making folds that rupture your spleen twice an hour you aren't playing right. 
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Div
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« Reply #19 on: January 30, 2010, 09:14:56 PM »

Div - I've started a full ring thread elsewhere - it is unbl nitty, if you aren't making folds that rupture your spleen twice an hour you aren't playing right. 

I know what you mean. There are some players I find myself set-mining kings against.
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'Price is what you pay. Value is what you get.'
- Warren Buffett

http://pokerdiv.blogspot.com
AlexMartin
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« Reply #20 on: January 31, 2010, 02:18:17 AM »

jam, have autotopup clicked.

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