blonde poker forum

Fold he has a pair

pair of?

Does young guy play on the interweb?

His 3-bet is pretty small pre

Do u never lead turn here cos you're afraid he raises? I think this is a fold. Pretty sure he bets all his air on the flop

I didn't lead the turn because I have so much showdown value with the AQhigh here + obv a golden draw...do you think he folds AK if i bet the turn....?

Doubt it. You'd have to barrell again on river

pair of?

Just seemed a bit of an unnessercary risk...

What Im wondering

Would would you asses as his ACTUAL value range?
does he really bet 77 for value?
does he turn AK/tiny pairs into a bluff?
do you not think he'd take this line with air?

Does he ever actually have a strong hand here - would anyone consider a check raise?

Pretty sure he bets all his air on the flop

disagree

I think you're making a decent sized mistake not betting the turn, even though you likely have the best hand you're repping super weakness to get blown off on turn/river.  As played i'd call, you can't really have a lot except a missed draw especially as you've folded to 2 of his 3 bets already

Sat to the right of an active (but not overly aggro) young guy in a £1/£2 game.
Have lots of history expected a reasonable amount of 3betting but not super light...Im loosing a small amount he is up a few hundred I think.
He is reasonably tight but definatley not a nit by any stretch, does have a tendancy to BIG light river bets as well but doesnt often do it vs me.

Hero £880
Villian £1k

straddled to £4 1 limper, to me in the Hijack i raise to £20 with  Ac Qc.
Villian 3bets to £52 - THIS IS THE THIRD 3bet of the game I've peeled 1 and folded to 2. none showndown.

Folds back round to me, I call £32

Flop  9c 9h 8d I check he quickly checks

Turn  7c. I check he bets £84. I call

River  2s. I check. He bets £188

Thoughts?

disagree

I think you're making a decent sized mistake not betting the turn, even though you likely have the best hand you're repping super weakness to get blown off on turn/river.  As played i'd call, you can't really have a lot except a missed draw especially as you've folded to 2 of his 3 bets already

disagree

I think you're making a decent sized mistake not betting the turn, even though you likely have the best hand you're repping super weakness to get blown off on turn/river.  As played i'd call, you can't really have a lot except a missed draw especially as you've folded to 2 of his 3 bets already

How often does he check back his air in this spot then? Maybe a bit strong to say he always bets his air.

And surely the fact he's best lildave off pots in previous hands makes it more likely he's betting for thin value?

First of all I think we need to know whether or not he's perceptive enough to be able to put you on a fairly wide range in this spot and 3bet light. With the limper in there you're repping a stronger range than just an open raise so is he aware of this and is he still capable of 3betting light?

Can't figure out whether or not I'm the villain. OP do you know?

I just cant see villain checking back his air hands on the flop, obv he may check back ak aq maybe aj, but i think hes gunna be carrying on his agression if he is making a move with qj kq kj etc. He may be checking back AA or KK on the flop to simply under-rep his hand and be able to get two streets of value from your range (which i guess is pocket pairs and maybe AJs +), whereas maybe he'd only get 1 street of value from that range if he fired flop and turn. Of course he may have flopped quads or a house too.

I also dont like just flatting the 3 bet with AQ and playing fit or fold when we are out of position, which is kinda what it seems you have done. he has shown weakness by checking the flop (albeit this may be a trap but meh) then when we turn a flush draw, its a great card to stab at on the semi bluff and give ourself another oopourtunity to win the pot, rather than just check calling trying to hit the river. Just a bit spewy as we miss often with AQ and are gunna be check folding quite a bit to a good player on the flop.

Oh i forgot to say i dont mind check calling turn if you think you have the best hand and are gunna snap a bet on the river too, therefore i guess theres no point in betting turn or check raising turn if you think you are ahead.

In OP did u say it was this specific player who had 3 bet you 3 times or was it the table combined?

4betting to induce the 5bet bluff sounds pretty cool especially if he can definitely spaz out against you which I'd imagine he can. With the straddle out there you're only 220ish BBs deep and if we can 4bet to say 160ish and get him to  jam light then I like that line more than just flatting the 3bet OOP.

As played I'm not really a big fan of c/c turn 'cos it still lets him valuetown us with 22-66 and AK but it does guarantee that we get to see a river though. Check raising the turn and getting jammed on really really sucks, but we do probably fold out AK and 22-66. I couldn't say for certain which is best but its probably really close and doesn't really matter a whole lot in the long run

this player specific. we have played together for a few yrs and are friends/swap HHs online etc.


Defo considered doing this - wish i had tbf. obv he flicks it in with AA/KK/AK/QQ cant see him folding JJ, he might fold TT idk depends because he was winning he might fold and not tell anyone, then combine with the amount of times he folds its clearly a profitable line - high varience obv but meeh!


I think this boils down to three points, 1) How often AQhigh is the best hand atm 2) How often he barrels the river again with air 3) How often he bets 22-66?
If we dont have the best hand hardly ever i.e he range is mostly pocket pairs/AK then c/raising is better, but if he checks back 22-66/AK, but bets most of his air again then its proabaly better to c/c, c/c. Like you say Dan, its so close and because he is very good its very difficult to know and therefore long term spose it doesnt matter at all...

Ye for sure he never bet folds OPs on the river, the intention of a c/raise would be purely  if i think he is bluffing with better (which was a worry at the time) but as I dont think he ever turns small pairs into a bluff/merge, or bets AK I dont see any value there.

Dan, as played what do you do on the river?

So general opinion is

Turn line is ok(ish) but im much better to lead, but if I think he is 3betting wide enough c/raise is better get another bet out of his air, when his value hands arent folding the tirn anyway.

As played fold river.

Here is what happened.

I called. He had AK. gg me sigh

i assume he was bluffing, it's a pretty bad hand to bluff with given that you can only fold out a 7 that beats you and even that might call

+1. he admitted immeadiatley after the hand it was a bluff, he said thought specifically i had a 55/77 hand and i wouldnt call a big river bet. I ruled him out betting with AK virtually immeadiatley, hence why I (somewhat result orientated) asked if anyone would shove the river lol

That was my feeling from start when u posted was your only play on winning pot was to raise river an def not calling which was the worst option of all imo.
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mmmm dunno if i completely agree tbh. I think during the hand i felt like id be winning with AQhigh more often than I actually would be (maybe I picked a little something off of chris during the hand idk) hence why i ignored what is probably the best route and didnt c/r the turn. If i got a read that he had a weak hand I was kinda (to my detrement) right

On the other hand Chris obviously picked up on my hand strength, realised I thought I had the best hand (which I did), realised that this was probably a hand like 88 and that as his line crediby reps an overpair he was gonna bet huge to make me fold (he was pretty much right as well just so happened his hand was slightly ahead of mine this time)

With the action as played, I still dont mind a call, he doesnt have tons of 9s/8s in he 3bets (97/87/98/9T/86 suiteds granted) + he has AA-JJ aswell im pretty sure that is his value range. all airball hands will bet river again and I win vs all of them except AK, but i expect him to c/back AK most of the time on the river, plus I had a "live read" in this vacuum that lead to believe (correctly as it turns out, but incorrectly at the same time) that he was bluffing in this instance (couldn't tell you what it was I just had a very strong feeling.

With these points considered I dont hate my river call, and actuallly prefer it to folding in this instance, pretty sure raising isnt profitable, and if i can narrow his value range like I can here to not include too many super VBs (really dont think he'd Vbet anything less than an 8 + he'd check a few of those back here i think)  and beat all but 1 hand he bluffs with....

I can justify the hand to myself because I really thought he was bluffing at the time and he was! wiii I win!

That was my feeling from start when u posted was your only play on winning pot was to raise river an def not calling which was the worst option of all imo.

[ ] big charra has excelled himself in this thread

[ ] big charra has excelled himself in this thread

Personally i think c/c>>betting>>c/r the turn in this spot. We have good showdown value, with cards which villian is likely to bluff at on the river if we hit (any ace/queen BDFD)

River is fairly tough, the fact that he turned AK into a bluff here shows hes pretty terrible and you were thinking along the right lines. Assuming your correct and he is 3betting alot, think about how much of his range you will usually beat here. Just a rather unfortunate spot where you ran into the tip top of his range (hate to use them cliche's).