Live Cash Hand. Deep.

[Skgv]

Oh i forgot to say i dont mind check calling turn if you think you have the best hand and are gunna snap a bet on the river too, therefore i guess theres no point in betting turn or check raising turn if you think you are ahead.

In OP did u say it was this specific player who had 3 bet you 3 times or was it the table combined?

this player specific. we have played together for a few yrs and are friends/swap HHs online etc.

4betting to induce the 5bet bluff sounds pretty cool especially if he can definitely spaz out against you which I'd imagine he can. With the straddle out there you're only 220ish BBs deep and if we can 4bet to say 160ish and get him to  jam light then I like that line more than just flatting the 3bet OOP.

Defo considered doing this - wish i had tbf. obv he flicks it in with AA/KK/AK/QQ cant see him folding JJ, he might fold TT idk depends because he was winning he might fold and not tell anyone, then combine with the amount of times he folds its clearly a profitable line - high varience obv but meeh!

As played I'm not really a big fan of c/c turn 'cos it still lets him valuetown us with 22-66 and AK but it does guarantee that we get to see a river though. Check raising the turn and getting jammed on really really sucks, but we do probably fold out AK and 22-66. I couldn't say for certain which is best but its probably really close and doesn't really matter a whole lot in the long run

I think this boils down to three points, 1) How often AQhigh is the best hand atm 2) How often he barrels the river again with air 3) How often he bets 22-66?
If we dont have the best hand hardly ever i.e he range is mostly pocket pairs/AK then c/raising is better, but if he checks back 22-66/AK, but bets most of his air again then its proabaly better to c/c, c/c. Like you say Dan, its so close and because he is very good its very difficult to know and therefore long term spose it doesnt matter at all...

Ye for sure he never bet folds OPs on the river, the intention of a c/raise would be purely  if i think he is bluffing with better (which was a worry at the time) but as I dont think he ever turns small pairs into a bluff/merge, or bets AK I dont see any value there.

Dan, as played what do you do on the river?

Obvioulsy after all that talk you obviuosly fold as you have more or less given up on trying to win pot by your explantion above ?

[DMorgan]

I dunno, smilar to your thoughts I really wanna call but I can be a bit of a station in these spots. Also because you know him you can end up levelling yourself into a call when really he's just playing straightforward against you because you're both really deep?

End result is a fold for me especially since he can value bet thin

[SuuPRlim]

So general opinion is

Turn line is ok(ish) but im much better to lead, but if I think he is 3betting wide enough c/raise is better get another bet out of his air, when his value hands arent folding the tirn anyway.

As played fold river.

Here is what happened.

I called. He had AK. gg me sigh

[DMorgan]

Predictions for what happened after the hand?

Villain decides he's so awesome that he's gunna play every hand from now on and does the lot

Everyone else at the table is pretty dumbstruck and casually discuss how awful lildave is

lildave visits the bar pretty quick

[Skgv]

So general opinion is

Turn line is ok(ish) but im much better to lead, but if I think he is 3betting wide enough c/raise is better get another bet out of his air, when his value hands arent folding the tirn anyway.

As played fold river.

Here is what happened.

I called. He had AK. gg me sigh

wow u called ! again u flat called ! respect for honesty though !

[Rupert]

i assume he was bluffing, it's a pretty bad hand to bluff with given that you can only fold out a 7 that beats you and even that might call

[SuuPRlim]

i assume he was bluffing, it's a pretty bad hand to bluff with given that you can only fold out a 7 that beats you and even that might call

+1. he admitted immeadiatley after the hand it was a bluff, he said thought specifically i had a 55/77 hand and i wouldnt call a big river bet. I ruled him out betting with AK virtually immeadiatley, hence why I (somewhat result orientated) asked if anyone would shove the river lol

[Skgv]

i assume he was bluffing, it's a pretty bad hand to bluff with given that you can only fold out a 7 that beats you and even that might call

+1. he admitted immeadiatley after the hand it was a bluff, he said thought specifically i had a 55/77 hand and i wouldnt call a big river bet. I ruled him out betting with AK virtually immeadiatley, hence why I (somewhat result orientated) asked if anyone would shove the river lol

That was my feeling from start when u posted was your only play on winning pot was to raise river an def not calling which was the worst option of all imo.

[SuuPRlim]

i assume he was bluffing, it's a pretty bad hand to bluff with given that you can only fold out a 7 that beats you and even that might call

+1. he admitted immeadiatley after the hand it was a bluff, he said thought specifically i had a 55/77 hand and i wouldnt call a big river bet. I ruled him out betting with AK virtually immeadiatley, hence why I (somewhat result orientated) asked if anyone would shove the river lol

That was my feeling from start when u posted was your only play on winning pot was to raise river an def not calling which was the worst option of all imo.
[/quote/]

mmmm dunno if i completely agree tbh. I think during the hand i felt like id be winning with AQhigh more often than I actually would be (maybe I picked a little something off of chris during the hand idk) hence why i ignored what is probably the best route and didnt c/r the turn. If i got a read that he had a weak hand I was kinda (to my detrement) right

On the other hand Chris obviously picked up on my hand strength, realised I thought I had the best hand (which I did), realised that this was probably a hand like 88 and that as his line crediby reps an overpair he was gonna bet huge to make me fold (he was pretty much right as well just so happened his hand was slightly ahead of mine this time)

With the action as played, I still dont mind a call, he doesnt have tons of /8s in he 3bets (97/87/98/9T/86 suiteds granted) + he has AA-JJ aswell im pretty sure that is his value range. all airball hands will bet river again and I win vs all of them except AK, but i expect him to c/back AK most of the time on the river, plus I had a "live read" in this vacuum that lead to believe (correctly as it turns out, but incorrectly at the same time) that he was bluffing in this instance (couldn't tell you what it was I just had a very strong feeling.

With these points considered I dont hate my river call, and actuallly prefer it to folding in this instance, pretty sure raising isnt profitable, and if i can narrow his value range like I can here to not include too many super VBs (really dont think he'd Vbet anything less than an 8 + he'd check a few of those back here i think)  and beat all but 1 hand he bluffs with....

I can justify the hand to myself because I really thought he was bluffing at the time and he was! wiii I win!

[Rupert]

i assume he was bluffing, it's a pretty bad hand to bluff with given that you can only fold out a 7 that beats you and even that might call

+1. he admitted immeadiatley after the hand it was a bluff, he said thought specifically i had a 55/77 hand and i wouldnt call a big river bet. I ruled him out betting with AK virtually immeadiatley, hence why I (somewhat result orientated) asked if anyone would shove the river lol

That was my feeling from start when u posted was your only play on winning pot was to raise river an def not calling which was the worst option of all imo.

you realise villain thought he was bluffing and showed up with the only bluff that beats us?

[George2Loose]

i assume he was bluffing, it's a pretty bad hand to bluff with given that you can only fold out a 7 that beats you and even that might call

+1. he admitted immeadiatley after the hand it was a bluff, he said thought specifically i had a 55/77 hand and i wouldnt call a big river bet. I ruled him out betting with AK virtually immeadiatley, hence why I (somewhat result orientated) asked if anyone would shove the river lol

That was my feeling from start when u posted was your only play on winning pot was to raise river an def not calling which was the worst option of all imo.

you realise villain thought he was bluffing and showed up with the only bluff that beats us?

[ ] big charra has excelled himself in this thread

lol. Big Charra should post more. Helps me understand live players

[Skgv]

i assume he was bluffing, it's a pretty bad hand to bluff with given that you can only fold out a 7 that beats you and even that might call

+1. he admitted immeadiatley after the hand it was a bluff, he said thought specifically i had a 55/77 hand and i wouldnt call a big river bet. I ruled him out betting with AK virtually immeadiatley, hence why I (somewhat result orientated) asked if anyone would shove the river lol

That was my feeling from start when u posted was your only play on winning pot was to raise river an def not calling which was the worst option of all imo.

you realise villain thought he was bluffing and showed up with the only bluff that beats us?

[ ] big charra has excelled himself in this thread

rofl.......................oololololololololollololoololollloo
p.s thought i was getting ignored !

[SuuPRlim]

just to add to the hand, villian said "your good" and attempted to muck his hand, id have won the pot if I hadnt excitedly victory revealed my AQ high, eager to get everyone telling me how clever I was....

wp me all round

[AlexMartin]

jam

[Whollyflush]

Personally i think c/c>>betting>>c/r the turn in this spot. We have good showdown value, with cards which villian is likely to bluff at on the river if we hit (any ace/queen BDFD)

River is fairly tough, the fact that he turned AK into a bluff here shows hes pretty terrible and you were thinking along the right lines. Assuming your correct and he is 3betting alot, think about how much of his range you will usually beat here. Just a rather unfortunate spot where you ran into the tip top of his range (hate to use them cliche's).