blonde poker forum

First of all I want to make it clear that i love DTD, without it I would have no human interaction and would just sit in my house on my laptop ignoring my wife. I find the majority of staff fantastic and have been playing there pretty much from day one and intend to do so until I go busto. (I hope I have said enough that this can be seen for what it is)

I have played in many venues throughout the UK/Europe and US and I realise each establishment has their own house rules etc although many are the same I also understand that the TD's in DTD in particular have a very tough job running tournies just on the sheer variance of player level they get within the venue, let alone people who have been on the sauce or regs trying to abuse their status.

Anyways: 11 left in the grand prix, 5 handed, Blinds 15/30k, i make it 75k utg   Ahrt Ts with 650k behind, the final Golden Chip winner jams for about 380k. He had done the same thing previously to me in the prior orbit and flipped QK as if it was bullets. (obv it may as well have been against my 43os) anyways, I try speaking too him but am not getting much, so i decide to do 'a move' I have done on 4 previous occasions in DTD and I flip my cards face up....... Any thoughts please?

This is one of those things where the rules differ from place to place and I simply wouldn't do it unless I was 100% certain that my hand wouldn't be declared dead as a result which is what I guess probably happened here.

well if you have done this on 3 or 4 occasions and the same TD had seen you do it, you could quite easily be ejected from the tourney

anything less than that would seem more appropriate - i would imagine at least a 1 orbit penalty (if first time in this tourney)

as for whether your hand is live or not - it would seem that if it clearly wasnt an error, then this being considered a fold is also highly likely, but i guess you probs still had the option to act and got a penalty instead

(did i cover all my bases?)

(and stop angle shooting or stay at home playing on your PC)

Hand live, assuming it's been flipped right in front of you and not in the middle of the table. Penalty after the hand.

Hello sir, I wish I had realised you were a blonde I would have said hello before I busted! We were on the same table for a few minutes!


I was also behind you when this happened, I was confused because I thought you were folding and showing but then Rich the floor man I think it was intervenes and as usual explains politely and clearly that it's a penalty afterwards normally for exposing your cards in a tourny to get a read. Saying you've done this before is more likely to be that you got incorrect rulings previously most likely because you had a new dealer or something and there was no floor close to the table at the time.

House rules go as always, hand isl live penalties after are a definite possibility.

Flipping cards face up intentionally in a tournament during a hand usually results in a penalty (orbit, 10 minutes, or similar) everywhere I've played.

Not sure what happens for that actual hand though.  I think the other player has all his options open to him and you have none at the very least (obviously that wouldn't change anything in this specific situation).  Could see an argument for the hand being dead too.

What was the ruling?

You did exactly the same thing to me on the last level of day one, where you showed kq.......eventually folding ( i had 3s!).

I asked the TD afterwards and he confirmed that hand was still live and you'd get a pen of one orbit, do it again and a longer pen and warning and do it a third time and would be removed from the comp!

Anyway, I learnt from it as I thought hand was dead!

WP by the way........loved the way you played your trip tens!

hand live, 1 round penalty, bigger penalty if you've been pulled up for it before. simples, anything else is plain wrong

Yea, it seems pretty unanimous. The hand was live, I was free to act and I got a one round peno in which i had a few smokes and two ppl got sent to the rail! wiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii. I folded like a lil girl obv. He showed the dealer his cards which kinda tilted me, there was no way I was getting a read off her..

Rich the TD was flawless in his work, the way he dealt with situation etc can't knock him at all, although the dealer at the time also thought my actions were well within the rules but she was told politely not to have an input.. 2  of the dealers previously sorted it themselves and said it was fine, on one of the previous occasions the dealer wasn't sure so he called the TD over and after his ruling neither did I receive a penalty nor was my hand dead! He stated it was part  of the game. I must clarify that I would never try anything in poker if I was made fully aware that it wasn't within the house rules. I am not willing to name names as I don't want to cause trouble. I just think there should be more continuity between the rulings in one establishment and that players,TDs and Dealers are all singing from the same sheet.

 R8APK you just had one card?  3s? (hoping it was pocket 3s. Once again at that occasion I was not informed otherwise I would never have done it on the second day. A whole orbit is a lot of steals missed for me... Was that the 10s against the geezer who called me with a gutshot? and i rivered a boat or when i snap called on a qxjj board.
 FYI these weren't all in this one tournament! I'm not that much of a scum bag! probably throughout a duration of two years. The only reason i have ever tried it, is i had it done to me in there. I 4 bet shove pre lvl 2 with jacks the guy flips QQs, clearly he saw the tears running down my face and called me off... I must admit it didn't feel nice, but once again he didn't receive a penalty.

Thanks for the input guys,


Titbeam you made it quite clear you wasn't a fan of angle shooters when that cockney geezer dirtied his stack to make it look like he had double the amount of 5k chips. Your reaction made me laugh though.  Nice hat by the way, are they on general sale? IS IT.

I now need to know how you played your trip tens?


BTW was told flipping your cards like this during a GUKPT tourny meant hand was dead, yet I did it once at Manchester G and hand was live, so I am confused a little.

So he didnt slam his fist and start crying when he saw you had AT?  Sounds like the correct fold then.

Agree with ruling but have absolutely no love for or sympathy with people who do this kind of stuff at the table tbh

OH MY GOD SON OF  A BITCH LIVE PLAYERS CAN ALL GTFO ASLD;KFJ;ASLDFKJASDLKFJASLKDFJASSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS;LKSJDFLKASJ;DLKFJAS;LKDFJL;ASDJFL;IASJ;KLDFJL;KASDJFLKASJD;FJ;ASDLKJF;LKASDJFL;KASDJ;LFJASD;LKFJ;LKASJ FD;LKASDJD;FL;ASDJLFJASDLFJ;ALSKDJFL;KASDJFALSDJ;LFJFASKLJA;SLKJFL;KASWJFD;LASJ;DLKFJA;SDLKFJ;ALSDJF;LKASJDF;LKAJS;LDKFJ;ALKSDJ;F;LKASJDF;LKJ



GODDAM ANGLING MORONS






He had an 8 high pile of chips, the salmon chips are 25k. so you'd think 8x25k= 200k in just that stack. he jams over my raise and I think why has he jammed 350k wtf count pls, oh look that stack has 6 500 chips mixed in with 2 25k chips. oh he has <150k and I nearly folded, I fking hate people like that. He's a reg he 100% knew what he was doing, if it was someone who obviously was new to live i'd explain the issue and make clear I had no problem. When you wear a poker patch and act like a cheating ma;fsdjlaksjdfk (insert your fave swear word) then I wish I wasn't such a skinny waif and could beat their face into a pulp, reform it and then beat it back into a pulp again.


My hat I had made specifically for the last grand prix because I got grief for always wearing the same cap. IT IS pretty cool ldo!!



It's a shame you haven't got consistent rulings, were all hands in tournaments or were some in cash? The DTD staff are exceptionally good and a pleasure to have running any tournament I am in. I have never seen a ruling go to someone because of who they are or any of the usual rubbish you would get in 'casinos' etc.

Meh don't think you'll ever really get a read off your opponent doing it so its relatively pointless but ruling was absolutely correct.

BTW  I called versus MR ANGLE, WE (THE WORLD OF NON SKANK NON ANGLING NICE PEOPLE) VS MR ANGLE.

Mr Angle holds a nine with a nine.

WE hold the  Qh with an  Ac


FIRST CARD  Ahrt


GTFO YOU SKANK


(fwiw I've never ever acted like that to anyone when i've taken them out or even been in an all in spot, I just cant stand people who think that subtle cheating at showdown or when action is complete is acceptable)

titb

do you not think the OP was angle shooting or trying to gain an edge?

Lol, I guess i'm glad i'm not after love or sympathy.. I whole heartedly agree with the ruling and i sincerely hope the ruling gets enforced throughout every tournament. I can guarantee you If i see it happen at a table now in there and it is not correctly dealt with by the dealer or then the TD, then I will have to escalate it higher.  

A further point, mainly for Titbeam as you were stood behind me. What did you think of the guy's reaction stood behind the dealer? he is one of the top boys in there. Obv no names to be mentioned. He was giving it all  "I should know better, almost calling me a disgrace" etc etc I thought it was a bit OTT tbh.  As stated above how would i know better if I had never been penalised previously in there!?? I won't ever find myself doing it in there again anyways and i guess I'm glad i got a peno as I found myself struggling to remain polite to a guy who was trying to call me out. To answer your question all were in tournaments.

Another point which I was thinking about yesterday: I was sat next to someone in a tournament who liked to pick both their cards up fully on the side, then squeeze them out, this lead to me being able to see the whole of at least one card every time they were dealt a hand, I didn't get involved as he was getting dealt sheer filth and folding the majority of hands. j/k I (stupidly??) said "mate, ya wanna watch how ya look at ya cards coz i can sometimes see em" (that's how i speak) he said thanks and didn't do it anymore.

 Which leads me to think:

Do you purposely look away?
Should you stay  quiet?
Should you tell them?

Anyone else been in this spot before? tell the truth now!

I think it's a completely different type of situation.

In that I don't mind someone trying to read me during a hand, and nor do I mind if they want to expose their hand.


I don't see that as the same as announcing 400k more than you have, or hiding your big chips on purpose, or dirtying your stack and refusing to count it or make it known that your stacks are set up to hide the amount of chips you have.

not having a go, just wondered what you consider to be angle

fwiw - the guy didnt over claim his stack size in your case

they are both angles for me - just you seemed really against 1 but not the other

Agreed. 


I have been in this spot, and I tell them straight away.

seeing the cards thing you tell them the first time, then if they do it again it's their problem

I personally warn them once, twice and then the third time I make a point of filling in the whole world what he had and how he played it. If he takes offence I point out that i've told him more than twice that he's letting me see. From then on I just look and keep commenting until they stop pretty much.

People often go to look mid hand and if they are next to you sometimes you can see and I just physically flinch and cover my face and start chirping that they are been a mad man and trying to show me their hand. People usually cover them up after that. I personally just like for an even playing field and consistent rules; i'm very competitive and would take no pleasure in winning a pot because I knew someones hand.

I find myself sometimes being shown my opponent to my rights cards as they limp or do something silly, if I didn't know their cards i'd probably raise them but if i've seen their hand then I feel like i'm cheating and will most often just fold my hand and warn them.


RE Your hand I cant remember everything I saw, but I HATE when the dealer looks or is shown a hand, that's ridic and would tilt me.  I do remember that I didn't recognise you but thought you must be known to the floor or had rulings before because of the nature of the conversation.



Guy, he refused to say how much he had or count his stack down, when the dealer started to count them she was so confused at all these 500s that had magically been put in the salmon stack (you could barely differentiate the colour until there were out of the stack) [he also had a stack of 500's seperate]. So yes he didn't "overclaim" but he also did everything he could to give me the wrong impression and gain an advantage. (also remember that these 25k chips have just been brought into play, everyone has just a few and they were massive compared to the value of all other chips, i'm pretty sure the floor didn't get all his 500s and mix them together for fun, nor was he shuffling that stack for them to fall randomly into a layered pattern, it was a 100% angle and it came from a reg, he can gtfo).

is it ok to build a wall of small chips and hide my big chips ? that's fine right? there might be a big chips at the front rule but who cares unless someone rules that we need to put them to the front until then well just play on and see if any advantage is gained.

Why don't we get to showdown and I say I have quads, get you to muck and show the nut low, this is fine because hey why not do that, we're at showdown there are rules for that but who cares.



Do we play poker like football?  even if we know the ball went over the line if the ref doesn't call it it's not a problem?


edit if it's not obvious, my usual sports are golf/snooker etc where you call your own fouls.

Haha TitB, I love that method, after a third time, tell the table what he had and how i played it. I Will keep that in mind for the future!

I know a couple of you are attempting to have little digs at my character which i find amusing, the fact is anyone who actually knows me within the poker community knows that I am an honest and genuine guy.

It is quite blatant I was trying to gain an 'edge', that is not in dispute. I felt I didn't have enough info to make the call at that particular moment. As it had never been penalised before It was fair to assume it was well within the legitimate house rules. I strongly believe that anything that results in a peno be deemed as cheating and be punished as so, Aslong as this is set in stone and there are no ambiguities. Like Cos said, you don't really get anymore information out of it anyway. Out of the 4 times I have done this, I have folded 3, called 1 and he had the nuts...gg wp.

Cheers for the input peeps, wasn't even expecting a reply. Much Love.

I am primarily a cash donk and personally am used to the sort of 'as long as the table accepts it it's ok' kinda thing. Showing cards gives free info and doesn't necessarily get you anything in return. As long as the rulings are consistent I have no problems.

I really don't see someone exposing their cards as 'an angle' in the same way as what I was talking about. I would never be rude at the table unless I was really sure that someone was being scummy, the guy was being scummy hence I couldn't help but be outspoken. I'm sure that if some one had just come to the table and didn't know me or really see what had happened they would probably think that I am truly bang out of order young idiot for being rude/loud and rubbing someone down as I take them out of the comp. He fully 100% deserved it and I really REALLY enjoyed hitting the flop. Much fun.

Quick 1 while we have ruling specialists itt.

2 all in players show each other their hands while a 3rd player is tanking.

Any/what ruling if the 3rd player objects and calls a td over ?

weird one, kick in the nuts (I really wish this was a rule) for both with potential penalties. I cant see the hands being declared dead though, that might be a house rule though.

Yea, that can be good fun on the old cash tables. I like to try and get the table in showing 1 card every time you win a pot. I think that adds to the fun. But hardly anyone goes for it. The Villain in question had done a few things previous, He kept asking over n over again how much the bet was, bypassing the dealer and asking the player how much the bet was etc. In all honesty I wasn't sure if he was upto something or just dumb. You wasn't overly outspoken, you got your point across in a reasonably polite manner. Just made me laugh. Young idiot for being rude?? I defo wouldn't have classified you as young. I thought closer to 40 maybe..

Looking forward to our next encounter. I might get a hat - Your Face 'Angling MoFos GTFO'

From now on if there isn't a button on my poker software to do it, then i will take the action as illegal.

You asked for a count?

You deserve to be angled you slow rolling mofo!!!

Not being one who is king of the rules this seems a Super tricky spot. I can't see their hands being dead as they have already acted, with nothing else to be done. . Did this actually happen or is it a what if? if so what happened? I think. If 3rd player folds it goes to showdown. If he calls it goes to showdown. They get a 1 round peno either way. Not sure why either player would want to show each other.

oi oi 40?! I look about 12! thanks. And for me i'm really not normally very vocal in any confrontational sense I just couldn't bite my tongue.


I dunno whether it'd be alright to get a hat made with his face on + some big and small chips mixed that might go too far, but new hats are always an option and you have now given me some ideas. Awesome!!! :D

That last line sums my thoughts up brilliantly!!

Ahrt


much wuv for eviplies. good luck in your next ufc fight sir. :)up

Did happen but tanker changed his mind and folded. Just wondering really.

Another ruling question...

In the first Grand Prix.

Im in MP, UTG limps as does UTG+1... 2 folds... I look down at a  Jh and a Joker Card.  ;gobsmacked;

I flip my hand face up so the dealer can see, and he calls the floor.

What should be the ruling here as there were two different opinions from TD's.

Jokers are wild. Why would u expose your hand?

Haha, fantastic. Have heard of someone being dealt  Aspades Aspades but never a joker. I would of had to play the hand out for pure comedy value! As George said something along the lines of "Jokers are wild" would go down a treat.

would have really liked seeing this hand get to show down.  just jam it all in, give them a proper decision imo.

Another ruling question, not that it bothered me at all, just wondering.

40 left in the grand prix, SB has about 350k, bb with a golden chip who stated it was his 1st live tournament has about 180k

SB says im checking it down all the way blind. Dealer thinks he heard BB saying "i'll do the same then". I didnt hear anything.

SB argues nothing in the rules saying he cant check it down, dealer says its collusion, SB says BB didnt agree, he just stated the fact that he would check it.

Flop both check, turn checked and river checked. SB flips up 1 pair I think, dealer says if BB's hand is the nuts then he will have him DQ from whole tournament. 74 was the nuts, BB had 62. Phew.. lol.

If the BB hasn't seen his cards then surely it doesn't matter if he has the nuts or not?

both angles, depressing and sad that people do this. personally think the table penalty should be longer.

WOW which ruling to answer first? I ran the bloody thing and didn't here any of this stuff. Dealers should not be saying a thing except calling for the floor as soon as they believe something is happening or heard anything?

In the above example IF the floor was called they would be either on a serious penalty or disqualified for soft play, i would have to know the exact situation after a consultation with the dealer REGARDLESS OF WHAT CARDS THE BB HAD

Hmmm strange one, I cannot say for sure as I would need all the information, but if it was absolutely blatant  (To teach them a lesson in my head I would like to expose both sets of cards and let the tanker decide whether to call or not) In the rules we follow I would have to give them a 3 rounder after the hand. I would like something harsher than this but don't think it warrants disqualification. The more I think about it the more i like exposing both of their hands to the table.

 A card discovered faceup in the deck (boxed card) will be treated as a meaningless scrap of paper. A card being treated as a scrap of paper will be replaced by the next card below it in the deck, except when the next card has already been dealt facedown to another player and mixed in with other downcards. In that case, the card that was faceup in the deck will be replaced after all other cards are dealt for that round.


 A joker that appears in a game where it is not used is treated as a scrap of paper. Discovery of a joker does not cause a misdeal. If the joker is discovered before a player acts on his or her hand, it is replaced as in the previous rule. If the player does not call attention to the joker before acting, then the player has a dead hand.

thanks Richard.

but isn't it quite likely that we have a fouled deck here so should treat it slightly different from a boxed card? I'd prefer to stop the game for a sec and have a quick count of the muck, stub, board and hole cards just to check we've got 53 before continuing with the hand

this I like. the cards are exposed and exposed cards should be tabled

To be truly honest, I did make a reply stating that all action should be returned (as in a fouled deck) but deleted it quick as something was nagging me that a joker is treated differently to a doubleton. I quoted the only reference i could find on this instance which is from Roberts Rules http://ukpokerassociation.com/irregularities/ see 3,4,5,7,8 and 9

yeah, I'm sure you're right about what the rule is, it's just that I don't like it. surely we have to count the deck at some point and it's gotta be better to do it now than once the hand's played out. if we wait and then find out after that it's a fouled deck we could have eliminated players to reinstate, doubleups to undoubleup and allsorts

Counting the stub is not really practical whilst a hand is in play and cards are due to come out, unless the flop is dealt face down and the remaining stub is counted. If another card is exposed that shouldn't be there then the action is returned and the hand is void. The TD will then change the deck after the hand, and check it themselves. All action stands regardless of TD's findings even if there only 47 cards in the deck for example.

See rule 10 on same page

ah, ok. I didn't realise that a missing card (which is quite likely in this situation) is treated differently from duplicates. in that case  I agree with you completely

Seems fair, tks for the reply.  Maybe start your own thread so we can get these in 1 place ? Call it Dik Rules or summat .

Always love to hear your rulings rich. Definately agree with making a thread purely for rulings. I'd love to flick through it on an hourly daily basis :).

RICH FOR KING!!!!

Is it?

oh it is.

i'm sure he loves just how often I like to come over and ask him a nuance of a certain ruling/set of rules.


Guys a legend!!!  ;tightend;

I dunno. A ruling thread that gets posted in daily might be too much.