blonde poker forum

As the title suggests I am playing in a £150nl game where the blinds are £0.50/£1.00.

My stack size is 1.5k and the villains stack size is 650.

History:

I have been playing pretty aggresive, punishing limpers and generally just playing pretty solid. There was one particular guy with £400 behind who I had 3bet 3 times already and he had folded. (We will call him Player B)

Villain is a newly friend of mine and my read is that he massively overvalues hands and bets pretty big with these hands. However I do think he is pretty good and definitely a good hand reader/basic fundamentals, IIRC he plays plo200 online. (We will call him Player A)

He regards me as a very good player (he's told me) and has refused to play 5 handed with me previously, he see's me as somebody who will hero call alot and there are like 4/5 Spanish fish on the table who are giving away money. The money doesn't matter to him as he is a very very big trader but he trys to play 100% perfectly no matter what game he's playing.

Important previous hand:

Earlier in the night there had been 4 limpers and I had made it £10 on the button with  Js Jh he 3bet to £35 from the SB and everybody got out of the way before I called.

He bet £55 on then Ks 7d 7c flop and £130 on the  2h turn before folding to my shove for £90 more (he showed 1010)


Main hand:

Pre

Player B raises to £6, I 3bet  Qh Qd in the cut off to £17. Player A then raises to £55 on the button and I call after Player B got out the way.

Flop

 Ts Jc 7d

I check and he bets £74 with one green chip (he has £25 chips and lots of £5 chips) I throw in three £25 chips and the dealer perhaps inappropriately sais "insta call"

Turn

The turn is the  2h completing the rainbow board and I check, he insta checks behind.

River

Is the  Qc

The pot is about £275 and we have around £500 behind. Whats our play?

Think I check/call. Though don't think I like it. Don't fancy leading into this player as if he raises/ships we are in a sick sick position. He could raise worse if we lead but given the action I think AK makes up too much of his range if he does that. Think he can easily bet worse on the river if checked too - we haven't really shown strength. And the previous tt hand could lead to him doing this

Spoke about this hand with a few people now and it really is a sick sick tough river line imo.

120 and snapping a jam

Checking.... and then..........

You have around £1400, no? The villian has £500 behind.

Of course I would never mean anything but effective. If we had 1 mirrion I'd say 500 effective.

have to consider what hands he reraises to £55 with that fit the betting thus far

Mostly it's made up of big pairs and big Aces and the only one we're scared of is AK which he may c-bet with and then check

Would he bet turn with a set?

Regardless - we want it all in the middle now that there's only one hand in his range that is beating us.

I bet to persuade him to shove - say £150-£180
and call - if he has AK that's tough, but I'm not folding top set on that board

wow really?

Check Call for me..

Any sized bet?

Why does £180 'persuade' him to shove?

Yes, if he shoves I call that as well TBH just because it would tilt me too much not to and because he can't really take us for QQ. I reckon that if I bet and he comes over the top the chances of him having AK are larger than if I check it to him and he bets/shoves.

And more importantly what hands does he turn into bluffs to shove here? He never turns KK into a bluff.

Giving the fact that he wont expect me to fold after he checks the turn (he thinks I'm a hero) what hands do you expect him to bet with on the river, giving the fact he 100% bets JJ/1010/KK/AA on turn.

Not saying it's not a bastard of a spot but don't see why he would 100% bet JJ/1010/KK/AA on the turn (Though I would). Can't narrow his range down to AK only yet IMO but you could do that if he shoves when you lead out on the river.

I can't bring myself to check fold this and therefore reckon I'll call almost any size bet. Especially as you said he's a good player so he should never shove £500 into a £275 pot when he has the straight.

I would never ever check this river. EVER.

would rather jam river than chk

How many hands did you use to make this post dave? :)

Reasons please Lilddddddd

I really like bet/fold here, ppl who snap check-back turn then raise river are not going to be bluffing vs your calling a 4bet & a flop bet. If anyone thinks they can bluff-shove me off hands that are mostly ranges of sets or two pairs in a £0.50/£1 live game then gl to them.

I think in this spot when you have such narrow ranges both of you and we expect him to bluff never (the bottom of his range has showdown value) then there no value to checking here, in a perfect spot we should be bet calling because its  In-exploitable for him to jam any river bet you make. It might be here bet fold is right vs specific villain although should 100% be a bet call optimally

What hands is he shoving here that check turn?

if villain is good he should jam AA/KK when we bet river imo, and chk them back if we dont. vs ur average £150 live player maybe this isnt the case

but he will obv jam ak as well if we bet, so if we narrow his range to aa/kk/ak and he will only bet ak if we check, surely we should check fold?

Time for the reveal?

he should jam 100% imo

my point is from a theoretical aspect the only way to play inexploitabley here is to bet call

sry im prob being thick but surely he must bluff sometime if we check to make bet calling the only inexploitable strategy.

Norrrr, Keys/Al Martin to come yet bro.

DMorgan went with 120-snap. See if they agree with him.

poor lildave's opinion is not counted as one of the big three. i feel for ya brother.

rofl gfy

Agree

Just for everyones information, I checked..

And he...

we're dealing with such narrow (and strong primarily value based ranges) that we miss tons of value by checking, and leave ourselves wide exploitable if we bet fold (not saying that isnt the best option in this vacuum) just saying from an overall GT angle its a  bet call imo

checking is exploitable because he can now chk AA back and he has virtuall

If you jam does this guy call aa/kk or are you confident he folds them?

There's a lot og live players I'd just jam into in a spot like this because they'll say, 'erghhh I'm beat, I call', or 'I can't fold this (one pair) hand, I call'.

Nah he folds if I 2.5x pot shove. Def.

I agree if the ranges are wider bet call prob best, but in this case if he has exactly aa,kk, and ak and he will jam all these if we bet, but only bet ak if we check, then check fold has to be best. 

If the pot is 250 and we bet call, we have 12/28 of a 1250 pot, so 536 for the 500 river bet - 36 profit,  but if he only bets ak on the river and we fold 16/28, we get 12/28 of 250 - 107 profit. 

nice. I think he has more hands than AA KK AK from description but this proves chk call is nut low option which i 100% agree with 100% ofc

Guys I am gauranteeing you that he 100% bets AA/KK on the turn.

one of the problems is that if he is a good hand reader and you try to induce a raise he will sniff it out.

however, if he overvalues hands and is a plo player then he will probably over value certain bluffing spots in holdem. Gotta agree with DMorgan. Its the highest variance but gives him the chance to make the biggest mistake or pay u off with some random hand. 

Also we had this dynamic where we would bet increments of $74. He strated throwing green chips in (hundos) and saying $74 and everybody made big deals about it, so could potentially use this on river if I somehow intended to induce a huge (multiple buy in) bluff.

4bet pre. Bet-fold river w/o a good reason to call, say for example he scratches his nose or something, then snap that bluffing bastard off.

I disagree, don't break his nose.

4bet/6bet jam? Or 4betf?

I'd b/f river probs unless I had specific reason to b/c.

It's already a 4bet pot pre, I think calling is fine

Oh fuck it I am kidding myself if I think I would fold lol

BulldozerD is right it's a 5bet, and yes I'm 5betting to eyeball. Seems to me from the OP that this is a good spot for a cold 4 so villain might reasonably expect a light 5bet from us. Although it is spewy to get in 650bbs with QQ, I think this situation is playing more like 3/6 because you are 3betting the opener seemingly as wide as you would open. Peeling is not terrible but things will get a bit awkward later playing a 4bet pot OOP with SPR of 5, whereas I think we can profitably stack off pre here. That is just from your description of the dynamic in the OP, there's no way I would get 650bbs in with QQ normally.

Also, this:

to be in-exploitable b/c is best, but i doubt in a 100nl game ppl are going to exploit a bf by jamming all air and turning aa and kk into bluffs to get hero off a probable set. also to say he never has aa or kk after checking flop means u think he never pot controls 1 pair VS a possible flopped set 650bb deep (not analysing how good/bad this is). hands we should be able to take out of his range are JJ and TT.

as played bf is fine and def > checking. check calling allows him to check aa kk, and value bet you for same amount u were betting anyway.

wiiiii geeforce +1 I must have gotten better :) where have you been not seen you round leeds' mean streets for many time :(

Yes he 100% bets 1010/JJ/KK/AA big on the turn and I was going to c/f the turn. WHen he checks turn I thought he massively has bluffs/AK in his range.

ur quoting me here, agreeing with what i said (i think), but then contradicting it. i am saying i think aa and kk are most def in his range (although i am sure by the way this post has developed he didnt have either)

AA/KK is never in his range here, I have played lots of hands against him and as stated in OP he doesn't EVER slow down with hands like this. Although his relative hand strength was pretty similar to AA although I'm pretty sure he see's them as two completely different hands.

never slows down in 600bb pots? i just cant live with this assumption. u obv know villain better than me, but how well do u know him 600bb deep in a 4bet pot Vs u ( i assume he puts u on a range in this spot, and is not just level 1?). i doubt u have seen close to the number of spots (and see his hole cards) to make the assumption he NEVER slows down on turn, and even if u have he isnt a robot

I have seen him in dozens of pots and I know that he would 100% bet this turn.

In the 300bb pot previously he bet and bet big with 1010 on kxxxx and wasn't bluffing. I have seen him 5bet shove 10xxx 300bb deep with A10, I have never ever seen him check back or check TPTK in any single pot that he had the inititive in and that has gone to showdown. I really like your posts in PHA but really got to accept that I know the player and that he always bets qq+ here on turn

completely agree u know this guy vvv well, but say the hand u mentioned with TT vs JJ. he goes for his standard bet bet line, doesnt slow down. he ends up bet folding for a fairly small amount even tho he has sd val. with that hand in mind he might not want to get in same spot again. from what u have said my range for him is def changing, but not so much still that he 100% bets aa/kk. feel like we not going to agree here so nvmd

Pleno, given that this now seems to be very 'villain-specific', and that you've dismissed a significant part of his range, what did you put him on, and perhaps more importantly, what range do you think he has you on here?

Seems pointless asking for advice in a spot where 'you know best'.

Yeah just read through and your basically saying he is has AK 100% of the time here no?

That in mind I think you should open fold the river for sick metagame hero praise.

Yeh have to agree with Cos. Seems u did some sort of hero check fold or lost the minimum somehow and the whole thread is a massive setup for bragaments!

ok, so with specific info that he never has AA KK JJ or TT how wide would he 4bet pre-flop and how much % of his 4b range would he cbet?

would he for e.g 4bet 99 + cbet JTx? Would he 4bet AQ and cbet this board? (I assume he would if you think he'd cbet AK)

also your saying he  would never chk back AJ on the turn?

You said relative hand strength the same as AA/KK so I assume he had AQ.

But bet/call is always the best play here without these hero reads.