blonde poker forum

Posting this on behalf of somebody i know....

Blinds 2K/4K ante 400
35 left so min cash gtd
Hero 160K
Villain (covers)
Mp (?)

Hero is in BB with  Qc Js,  MP flats as does Button, small blind passes Hero checks..
Flop is  Jh 3c 5c Hero bets 35K ?
Mp folds
Button Shoves
Hero ?

Hand cant be right - why does he overbet the flop by 2x pot?


(assuming blinds are different - and just looking at the pattern of the hand itself)

Need info on villain - age, style etc etc

Dont donk lead here - its terrible

In live poker a limp overshove is often indicative of a big hand (or moreso limp, bet pot), so I can probs find a fairly easy fold - but all that depends on alot more info being provided

Abso hate the 35k donk lead, but disagreeing with Guy slightly in the fact that once you are in the money and you face these gross over shoves, from my experience they are normally draws that the player is unwilling to fold/happy to go with.

Surely he jams 66-1010 here also?  more likely to be a ragged sooted ace imo. abso worst case is 33,55,aj,jk all of which i personally would be inclined to raise with pre. Would expect to have more info on Villain at this stage but as hand played:

Sigh call and hope to fade is probs my line if i had somehow put myself in this spot, sigh fold and learn lesson on donk leading is probs most people's line i reckon.

Blinds may be different not an easy task getting the whole hand history out of him, this was his first deepstack he satted in cheap as he normally plays £15 comps..  I didn't like the bet on the flop and also thought it was an easy fold but as i've not made day 2 yet i thought i'd get some feedback for him..

never go broke in an unraised pot... messed up myself 2 off the bubble in a massive mistake by me going with my heart n not my head.

Stacks are Obv hugely important here for the pre flop action

Eg, can't see villain limping behind with 88-TT, therefore I don't have them in his range

There is a good chance he does it with a suited A so I def agree with Milligan there.

It's only a donk lead if he's leading into a raiser, no? If it's been limped around, what do you want him to do- go for a check raise? Check fold? Does he want to give his opponent free cards?

Well if he intends to get it in I prefer a c/r

Never go broke in a limped pot is very sound advice!! Tell your mate this. As i haven't limped into a pot in the last 5 yrs this has never been an option for me. Obv all advice is as the hand is played. 

Interesting to know when people fold what actual hand they are putting the Villain on?

Looking forward to the reveal.


If i was in this spot i would happily c/r and get it in. Leading gives you the chance to easily get bet off the pot. I would rather c/c c/r then b/f this flop all day. We are beating far too much. Obv we are giving free cards away but rather that than free money.

As i said I would never have put myself in this spot, so can only give 'advice' as i would play it. Guessed most people would fold. But i'm sure most wouldn't be in this spot.

Villain has AJ

If the guy limps the button with aj after 1 limper, then he gets all my money!  until i spike a queen on the river obv. This XYZ poker confuzzles me.

Thanks for feedback guys..
Hero called and Villain turned over AA and after no help on turn or river it was gg...

most people leave dtd scratching their balls going "i had top pair top kicker what am i meant to do. cooler". ask any of the people my 2nd lesson i teach. lesson one is you cant bluff an idiot.
this just popped up..
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some dont even have top kicker sorry lee :)

 ;D

sorry got leefish and dean mixed up again ... should say sorry dean

Its ok i've been called deanfish before... lol

you was sat with us last month talking with rob and evil pie. and on facebook you work on jenson buttons motorhome yes (thought you might have got in trouble for those pics n posts). would direct you to the champion of champions walsal thread but dont know how too... you get a mention but its mostly me talking bollocks

Yes thats me fella.. You talking bollocks, never.... lol
Where are these lesson's that ya keep talking about being held..?

just dont like leading here readless without a read.

i played nugget re buys up and down the m62 from hull to liverpool for years until the 5 night aweek grind had to come to an end with the birth of my kids (all the comps went from being 10k plus affairs to 4k over night so made traveling  notworth it also)...hence i now play twice a month in bigger comps and am building a hendonmob profile nicely. everyone i ever helped with poker i teach them "ABC poker. How to beat idiots" and turned it into a joke book for my friends in hull. rule number one is you cant bluff idiots etc etc etc. it works for everything from pub/home games right upto dtd deepstacks and ukipt. infact i have used it successfully at the irish open and wsop main to get through early days. treat everyone like an idiot until they prove you otherwise.  shit just read where??? come see me anytime and i will give you em for free. its all backed up with results by my pupils (well all except mark lewis but thats another story)

yeh i don't like leading here without a read so readless I don't like readlessly leading.

you sound like a chinaman...readlessly leading lol

Possibly the two best bits of advice I've ever seen on PHA regarding live pokerz.

Ive passed the advice on not that he'll listen or bothered about learning.. How he made day 2 amazes me.. (skill game)

hey it aint luck that i'm as good as i am matt. with mark lewis i bought him into the deepstack as we go a long way back from the hull days and was a bit pissed off that i was putting the chinese mafia in and not him. any way as i was banned for 6 month he offers to pick me up n drive for the buy in. he has read "ABC how to beat idiots" and was getting all excited at the chance of £24k up top and playing some top players. i tell him to steady down coz 90% are idiots (someone told me a word to use instead of idiots last night coz idiots seemed a bit harsh but i forgot what it was now) and in this field are going out with top pair top kicker. anyway we get to level two and he is stood behind me. how you doing mate he enquires? piss off mark i say. its level two aint played a serious hand yet just weighing up the table. how you doing ? sic cooler mate. flopped top pair top kicker all the chips go in and he had a set. fml. never got backed again

Just gotta teach u to paragraph now Jase

yes got that on the c of c thread earlier george. just get carried away. still one finger typing and looking up at the screen after each letter

Whats your image?

im not sure how to read this post as I dont like readlessly reading posts.

It's a limped pot, so with no-one having the lead in the hand, we are effectively leadless as well as readless. Really bad imo to needlessly lead readless in this leadless pot.

If we pot the flop and lose we'd effectively be potting ourselves potless without a pot to piss in.

i don't understand whats wrong with leading the flop in a limped pot   :dontask:

i do understand why leading 35k is bad tho

It's the 3 kids in the kitchen.  You need 300 posts before before you can grim us with a staking request, but in the meantime have you heard about that guy and marrakech

Decisions decisions. Don't mind leading here. Seems like leading < 1/2 pot is decent, dependant on stack %'s, ICM considerations, blah blah blah. Bet/calling for stacks is bad, with stack sizes as they are you have bad equity vs villains value-shove range and this is never really going to be a air-ball bluff-shove spot for anyone playing the 300. Best case you are against AcXc, worst case AJ, KJ, sets and AA-QQ.

So for me it's:

A) bet small enough to allow for folds to re-raises/ships
or
B) check-call to re-evaluate turn.

[ or C) get it in, find out you're miles behind and do some wiiii binking and get there ]

If stacks have limped into the pot small enough that leading here gives you no fold-equity to a shove, option B. If people are deep enough I would be going with A as I would want to be keeping a slightly balanced range between leading draws and made hands here (although balancing ranges is barely worthwhile in the deepstack). If you spot Alex or Mitch in a hole in a 1/2 game, option C is clearly +EV, regardless of getting there or not.