blonde poker forum

Villain is a quite solid reg, isn't playing many hands as the table is pretty aggro. It's straddled to £8 and we start the hand with about 400 as does villain.

Villain opens to £31 from UTG+1 I think we were 7handed at this point. Folds to me in the blinds I have  Jd Jh.

We have effectively 50bigs. I think villain has a strong range here. Not sure whether he'd open small pairs, but at a guess I'd say 66+ AJ+ ATss, KQ.

What is should our plan be here? 3b/fold, 3b/call? 3bet size? If we 3bet and he flats, what's our plan on various board textures?

Have you made it £8 or what? Info on any players to act?

dbl straddle his range should be huge 3 bet call imho make it about 85-95

his range defo isnt huge, and why should it be on a double straddle. (double straddler was peeling/3betting 100% btw).

No love for just flatting here?

Definately dont like a 3b call, you already say his range is strong for opening, his 4b shove range must have us crushed.

3b fold just seems like were dishin out queer dollars.

I flat, happy i'm in position.

Plus were then happy for double straddler to flat or raise and we can then re-evaluate.

3b size if you did for me would be a hundo.

You don't have effectively 50 bigs at all.

Just because it's straddled doesn't mean you're not still playing 1/2.

You say that villain is utg +1. Does this mean he's the cut off?

Assuming the above I just flat it and let Vargas raise from his double straddle. (Assuming it's Vargas from the description).

If opener jams I'll happily fold. Otherwise get it in against straddler.

If straddler doesn't raise then it's a set mine for me. Don't get tempted on an under card board.

I'm with Matt, the straddle doesn't make it the BB £8.  You still have 200bbs.

You don't want to be raising and then folding to a 4-bet from the villain, so flat and see what Mitch does from the staddle.  You don't mind playing big against him, but against the villain you're probably just set-mining (I can't think of many boards you're going to be too happy with)?

Is the villain Julian? If it is you have to fold as he only has AA here...

You said gillian is a solid reg, in that case his range should be huge. If you meant to say villain is a huge rock then your crushed just fold

disagree.

flat seems best given your image. There may be more merit to raising if this was someone like Mitch or Tom but a raise here will kinda turn your hand face up and give villain the chance to play perfectly against you.

In a marginal spot vs UTG opener but having the 100% VPIP double straddler in there should sway the decision.

(this clearly is nearer to being 50bb effective stacks than 200bb, peoples ranges will however stay a lot tighter than a straight up 50bb game for various reasons)

eh? of course we don't have 200bbs, we have 50.


We're in the blinds, didn't really fancy being oop in a 3/4way pot with jacks and a stp ratio of like 3/4, but maybe this is better than the other options. 


I had been pretty active on this table you may be surprised to know Ged. I had 3b this particular person a few times which leant me towards a 3b in this case as well.

Some pretty important additional info in here!

Still think flat>3b/fold>3b/call>open fold

Youve already 3b the guy a few times, is he capable of going nuts?

Surely he is only shoving 4b shoving AK+ QQ+ ?

If we he flats our 3b its gonna be a hard hand to play OOP.

not really close to going nuts at all to be fair. and yes only 4b jamming QQ/AK+. Probably. I dunno what he does with TT or AQss.  I did say in OP that I was in the blinds. but yeh missed out our history

So you did. My bad.

In that case either pull up at least another £400 or ask to be dealt out of all straddled pots.

Playing with 50bbs is terrible.

This is Stu Hopkin at his very best.

ROFL

Default for me would be to 3 bet call.  Can flat if you like i guess but you should def not be 3 bet folding in this spot.  If he's tight and he jams your'e not loving it but its still a profitable call.  The point of 3 betting is sometimes he folds (not a disaster) and when he calls you win more.

I would assume i have 40bb not 50 tbh.  A 1-2-4-8 game is effectively as big as a 5/10 game.  You can rarely go wrong getting 50BB in pre with Jacks in a cash game even v a tight player.  Do you think he ever shoves 77/88/99/22 here?  If hes a solid pro he'll be aware of the effective stack he's playing and that you might be attacking his open.  

Just because you think hes playing tight doesnt mean to say he thinks you think hes playing tight.  Maybe he opens AJ thinks your attacking the straddled pot and shoves?  I dunno theres just a lot of hands in my mind he could shove.  If hes in any way decent I dont buy it that hes only shoving QQ+ .  (other week i was playing full ring live got it in for 100bb from Big blind with AK v UTG (a renowned nit and tightest player at the table who wasnt tilting) Board runs out JJ447 and i win the pot - moral of the story players ranges are usually bigger than you give them credit for)

If he flats go broke on any flop with no overcards.  Be wary of Q's - Ks are a slightly safer cards in my experience (i assume he shoves ak prob doesnt flat with kj or worse ks)
Given stack sizes you dont have to c bet that big on the flop maybe < 35% of the pot.  If villain flats 3 bet he prob has a strong holding so don't expect him to bluff you too often.

if you have 3bet a guy a few times and hes folded AND he opens in a double straddled pot then I am 1 mirrrrrrion % 3b calling.

THIS!!!


Stu mfking hopkin!!!

Jolly Good. This is more like what was going through my head.

I 3bet to 105. Villain flat called. I'd now narrow his range to QQ/JJ/TT/99 maybe? I think he'd also flat with KK and AA a decent amount too. Perhaps AQ? I think your paragraph about peoples ranges being larger than we give them credit for is really helpful Keith.

So pot is £223 We have £300 behind.

Flop  9c 2s 2c

My thoughts here was that I had to bet call it off but not really loving it.

What about a T9x flop? Could we check/fold this?

Fold pre and don't tell anyone.

(just realised discussion moved on)

lol, no

you turned JJ into a bluff, wp

Also i'm not levelling. AK i might get in because of card removal effects, 3bet/calling JJ is so awkward and his calling range fucks yours hard enough that i'm just folding and keeping quiet about it.

quite an apt username you have there sir

rofl

I once played 5bbs deep in a luton cash game :)

This is a terrible idea, reload for at least 20x you're buyin or refuse to play in those hands.

Ha ha

Luton is the place to shortstack. If this is the rule I am pretty sure I once sat there with £300 and effectively had two and a third bb's.

LOL, I'll let Matt explain it, I didn't have a bag in my back pocket though :(

Pretty sure we are talking about same hand, I must've had 2bbs then, wiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii.

On flop bet 68 to give the illusion you might fold and call it off.  If i had 1.5 pot to stack ratio  and an overpair HU on any flop i dont think id ever fold.
If hes slow playing wp him you just got unlucky.

£128 straddles ftmfw!!

Back to the hand.

I've just had a proper read of the range you've assigned villain and I might have to change my mind.

For some reason I thought you had him as tight. This range looks pretty wide to me and JJ smashes the shit out of it.

Def 3 bet and get it in is the correct line against this range.

Tbh though I can help but think that this game is still 1/2 and I don't want 200 bigs in with JJ.

I'd be looking at this in terms of my roll. If I'm rolled for 1/2 then I'm playing 1/2 so it's 200 bigs.

If I'm rolled for 5/10 and I'm one of the happy double straddlers then obviously I'm fist pumping JJ here with 50 bigs effective.

However if I'm rolled for 5/10 and double straddling a 1/2 game there is no way I'm sat with £400. I'd have minimum £1k with plenty to pull up which makes the whole hand play completely different.

I disagree with mondeoman that we should bet 68 on the flop.

I think 69 is far more optimal as he's likely to think his chances of winning the pot are a lot more sexy and ship it.

P.s. Muckthenuts has obv read ur diary and is being results oriented or levelling.

ldo, who hasnt.

ps, dont disagree with mondeoman.

We could argue that if we feel villian will only 4b AK/JJ+ that there's a case for 3b/folding but i don't really like it. Calling preflop seems terrible to me as we're oop and with stacks postflop we'll either be putting our money in crushed or winning a pot which isn't that large. Similarly with 3b/calling villian described sounds unlikely to put any money in with dominated hands such as TT/AQo. It basically all sounds really godawful bad to me. It feels yuck to let this go to one open but i'm ok to fold this, JJ isn't like a monster to me here.

ALL OF THIS.
+1

Also stu hopkin A+++++++++++
handing out queer dollars oioiiiii

Fml am I only one not read diary? Still get it in still think a reg opening a dbl straddle should have a wide range

Nah i hadn't, nor any other posts itt before i posted. I actually wrote that he should fold as my very first post itt before thinking info on players to act would be better before deciding. Still think it's a fold though.

in his defence i have read lots of really good pha posts from muckthenuts, but happen to disagree here.

Why would you c/f T9x ?

Id be betting £105 on that flop and jamming nearly every turn

cos then we literally don't beat anything and I can't ever expect to get called by worse.

but you show so much profit in betting and once we've bet we're getting a sick price to call virtually regardless of his range

In the £1/£2 at DTD the other day, we get the £128 straddle on by Vargas.

UTG (or as us cool kids now call it when leveling noobs, FTG: First to go) passes, as does button.

We are in the small blind having posted 100pence.

Effective stacks are roughly £700 with everyone except the £4 straddle whos playing £1k.

We have  Jc Jd and cover.

Are you putting in effectively 500BB's in this spot, or folding as its a £1/£2 game.

lol exactly^

Fold he'll have top set.

rofl

Once you've got the £128 straddle going on you're playing bingo not poker.

If you're happy playing bingo then you're fist pump getting it in.

If you're not happy playing bingo you left this game ages ago to play normal poker.

For the hand in question if you look at it as a simple 50bb spot then there really is no point in this thread being here.

If you're short stacking and get JJ you just need to find the most efficient way of getting all the chips in the middle.

mmmm, its still poker, just higher variance

Yeh its ridic to suggest that when there's a 128straddle on its not a good game to be in. I wouldn't feel the need to sit 2k deep either.

edited to "wouldn't"

You're rolled for that game and the massive variance? Why not play 5/10?

Also known as bingo.

All the skill is removed. There was only a 2.4% skill element anyway but that's now gone.

All that matters is the cards you're dealt and the 5 community cards.

The only winner is the rake 'cause you're just flipping.

its still possible to have a pretty big edge in 20-30bb poker

I assume this should this say you wouldn't feel the need?

If you've got the money it's a great game to be in because it's fun.

If you're trying to be a great poker player and win long term by exploiting small edges it ridiculous.

If you're just gonna sit there with £200 and nit up waiting for a big pair it's ok but otherwise there's much better games to be involved in.

If you want to get involved in the comedy cock waving that is the 32/64/128 straddle then get in there and enjoy.

Is this a level matt?

Very true.

We're talking about 1/2 with a 128 straddle though and I doubt more than 2 people are sat with anywhere near 2.5k

You're probably looking at about 7bb maximum for most.

Matt you have absolutely lost the pha plot lately.

No.

Yeah fair enough.

I'm looking at things from a sensible point of view not necessarily an EV point of view.

What exactly is good about straddling to £128 other than the fun element which is aweome btw.

What is great about being in a game where our effective stack is <50bbs?

Would you ever suggest playing with that stack size?

I don't recall ever owning this particular plot.

Matt, putting the 128 straddle on is extremely shit.
 
Having it in the game is brilliant.

Its great because when you have 500quid and you have a premium hand its 100x easier to get it in when the straddle is to 128. U shove, and probably get called blind. If you have 78suited, you fold. Easy game. I can't see the problem.

It is when we get dealt JJ :D

Presumably if someone's silly enough to straddle to 128 we're having to straddle as well though? Certainly at least 5 people are straddling to get up to 128.

So when does it stop?

Do we limit ourselves to the 4, 8, 16?

At what point does it become shit?

If us straddling to 16 induces the straddle to 128 is it a +EV move?

If it's not +EV should we put the block on?

Sorry to derail this to a straddle question but I'd like to know.

if your not doing it but other people are, its a great spot for you

Yeah it's kind of great but as Dave said it's incredibly high variance.

If you're rolled for it then there's no problem whatsoever.

If not it's a sure fire way to go busto.

One more thing regarding the straddles.

If you stay disciplined it's a great way of making a profit out of other people's idiocy.

Just be careful not to get sucked in because it's really good fun :D

Yeh but I have a massive roll init.

Putting a single straddle yourself in is -ev imo.

Matt is correct, it's very good fun
gamboooool

You played this well, got coolered, and are a lucky fuck

/Thread

Its my mission one day to be playing a normalish 150bb stack and get the lot in as an understraddle.

Having read thef first couple of pages I personally think flattting pe is best. I'd probably flat call the flop too and then make a decision for stacks on the turn.

I'm sort of wondering why the OP only has '3b/f 3b/c or 3bet size?' in his OP. Did you never consider flatting at any point?

Gamboooooooool

I once put a £64 straddle on on a 50/1 game. Won a £700 pot. Was +ev. Results based ftw

I recently put in a £164 and lost a £1500 pot with J4. Wasn't EV

I once put the £1024 straddle on a won a £43k pot

I meant to write "wouldn't feel the need to sit 2k deep"

No not rolled for that. Keith is :p

How you been doing on Zenga Poker lately?

Up £1.2million this month. Had a really sick downswing last month though, down £3.5million, was so fkn brutal almost made me quit and give up. I wish they did rakeback, would save me tens of thousands each month.

Cliffs: Matt is a dirty nit

I saw someone put a £3840 straddle on in a £2/£5 game and he got it in with  Jc 2c vs  7s 8d and  Ad Jh and I think he might have broken even nearly.

He might have lost but no1 will be straddling when it's his btn again

loooooooooooooooooooooooooool   Ahrt

I had A7o in this hand as well but found a fold 2nd to act

putting in a straddle is -ev in long run others putting in a straddle while your not is +ev in long run IMHO

please straddle my games

ps i still raise blind UTG though cause thats the way i roll

its cool from a social aspect to straddle, its good in live games to look like you're giving plenty of action so if you sacrifice a bit of EV straddling then its a shrewd move imo.

the nits in really good live games who refuse to give anything away defo losing out in action from more active players and im pretty sure its bad for them long term

i won a couple of take aways when i straddled to 1500 won tons

Just read allll this. I'm probably 3-bet getting it in here, although it depends who it's against. Definately not 3-bet folding ever. For me personally i'd probably flat (assuming one of the straddles is a 'I-straddle-to-8-then-sqeeze-far-too-often-monkey'), otherwise I 3-bet and the table assumed I wake up with AA/KK here all the time 'coz i'm me, if that fails (obv never) I get it in and hold/bink... whatever is necessary.

Poker... done. NEXT

Straddling is great to loosen up a nitty game.  Once there is 3 or 4 straddles out there even nits lose their minds trying to win the dead money and lower their starting requirements significantly

I was the UTG player in the hand Mitch is referring to, where Vargas straddled to £128...

I actually folded without even looking at my cards. I was sat with over 1k having started with £300. I had 3 weak players (imo) to my right and I felt that I was in a great seat for exploiting them, without putting my entire stack into play with say Aspades Ks, plus I was already winning a nice chunk of money.

I realise that it was incorrect, folding without looking at your hole cards is a ridiculous thing to do, it was slightly impulsive having seen the all the straddles, I just thought it looks like potential carnage and I could undo hours of grinding.

Mitch pointed out it was a bit daft and then promptly shipped his stack into the middle and picked up all that free money.

Coz thats how i Fkin roll!

See Mitch didn't look at his cards either and took a slightly different line

sick oppppo to GAMBOOOOOOOOL though :)

I wouldnt hate your post half as much if you had said 88 instead of AKs though :P

Get your money in post and turn a jack obv.

I think in this spot you should call vs me. It leaves every option available to you post flop. It also has the benefit of providing a tempting looking squeeze spot for the straddler which (if I fold) you should be snapping.  What are you three betting for? If it's for value what hands am I calling/shoving with that you like your hand against? If it's to define my range you got your answer and had to stack off anyway. Are you bluffing with jacks preflop? I doubt it.

Bear in mind I'm not saying set mine, and playing OOP this deep will be tough. You're going to have to mix up your flop play to some extent as the pot is now single raised donk 3 bet, donk fold, check call, check raise and hell even check fold are all options with varying degrees of viability. Also bear in mind this will mean you have to flat aces in this spot every now and then. Not very often but just enough.

On the straddle discussion, other people putting money in blind is a good thing no matter what. Playing bingo isn't a problem just so long as your card has half the numbers of everyone else.