blonde poker forum

Been running bad and confidence is low even though playing pretty well (managing tonget to last two tables C5 with no hands and then getting rivered  type of thing) but now beginning to doubt seemingly simple stuff.

This hand is intriguing due to nature of tourney, opponents and chip stack.

Live freeze out with mega slow structure. Blinds 150/300 25 ante.... Table is full of pretty terrible live players many of whom belong to the limp call brigade irrespective of position. I have found the iso range raise that they will generally fold to but on the whole I haven't been overly active and picked spots to garner chips.

Utg limps... Standard station that likes to bluff a bit and has the odd move in his locker . Two other limpers..me BB with QQ... I make it 2100 from 15k.. Slightly bigger than usual but as i said the table is full of limp callers and I could well be playing this hand op 4 handed..... Utg then shoves for a total of 13k...

Now here's the thing..with a perceived significant edge and still deep is there a case for a fold here?  Do we think utg is playing the standard ( yawn) limp shove with aces? Or his range is wide enough we are going to be nicely ahead to make this a +ev call when considering opponents and more than workable stack. Do we need to call here or just continue to play v weaker opponents without endangering our tournament?

Ps. Any comments from Celtic will be ignored due to him being tez and only saying things to spite me

Maybe find a fold if you truly believe you're behind his range, but I really hate hearing anyone justify folding to "find a better spot" because it's such flawed logic. Any spot that is +ev is a spot that you should take and that's all there should be to it.

I don't think you will go far wrong by assuming a live limp reraiser has KK, AA or AK and nothing else.  I am guessing you'd see AK as often as AA, and KK a bit less.

It is so rare you see anything else that you don't really need to worry about it.

Think that makes it a puke fold.

I'd raise a bit less pre too.

this is such a massively over considered point, ask yourself these questions

 1) why am i so mush better
 2) how do i use advantage of my >skill

if you dont get this you dont get tourney poker im afriad

Not really a better spot issue..just because we are still so deep the question is do we need to risk a massive potential flip here and now when we can move our stack north with little or no risk

1) This is my local casino in which I know all the regs games..a few new faces coming in lately but with easily identifiable games. I have one of the best records in these £50-£100 fouts over the last 3 years

2) i think because of my ( perceived edge) i don't need to get involved in potentially tournament damaging hands this early where i'm possibly flipping at best..different stage of the tourney with different stacks its an auto call..but right here right now with these conditions i should probably fold. Think too much emphasis these days is placed on crossing fingers and lumping huge amounts of chips in pre flop. I play a small ball game and getting involved in these huge pots so early without a significant equity goes against this ethos... As I said bad runs breeds indescision and second guessing

If you don't get this you haven't actually got an edge anyway.

Who do you talk poker with most?

Boom, think I hit the nail on the head. :P

Raise less. 1500 is plenty.

Fold to the shove.

I don't mind passing QQ or AK with 50 bigs given this action.

Live to fight another day.

We are passing this because it is a bad spot, not because it is a good spot and we are waiting for a better one. 

Much of this discussion is irrelevant to the situation.

sorry forgot to say Celtic & Greeky shall be ignored

yeah think its a fold..slightly bigger initial raise as stated before because we are op to serial limp callers..this type of sizing usually gets the majority to fold enough to get hup or take it down

What's smallball about making it 2100?

Why do we want to get heads up or take it down?

It seems incredible to me that the consensus here is to fold. His range is probably more like 8-8+, AJ+ and even a few suited connectors. He´s described as "standard station likes to bluff a bit and has the odd move in his locker" and we´re giving him a range in this spot of AA,KK and AK. We can just about fold here versus a real nit (still don´t like it) but against a player of this description it should be going in imo.

i play small ball as general... i'm raising in the face of 3 serial limp callers op... i do not want to go to the flop 4 handed here op.. as stated this is all situational.... i think we all agree if im opening with no other action im making it 750-800...

even if we play sball we still open with larger iso bets v serial limpers usually with position..but more so here cos we are op..this is standard play v weak serial limpers  no ?

QQ is massive but vulnerable post v 4 random who I know ranges include many A x and K x hands...

The main point here is the situation because its quite early in a slow structure...i don't think i win the tourney here but i can lose it..and also the effect of when ur running bad u then start to 2nd guess urself..

 u want to take a flop 4 handed op with QQ ?

Going 4 way makes it harder post flop, but if your trying trying to take it down preflop your not utilising your perceived edge

Disagree.

Live donks might call 88 but for every one time this is 88/AJ type hand I expect to find 5 when it's AA/KK.

with the luxury of hindsight and knowing the player ( even though he is capable of running bluffs and random acts of insanity ) i put Ak at the bottom of his range in this situation and that makes it a clear fold... if he got me off QQ with 5 8 os..meh good luck wp..i still have 50 bb to pwn ur soul with down the streets.

ROFFLE @ the 2100/fold manoeuvre.

Who is the wild type utg full of bluffs and insane moves? Guessing it's Alex, Banksy or someone like that?

oh god i forgot about you... ok...celtic, greeksy and chompy all banned from commenting

Modesty forbids......

Definitely the key factor in this case imo. Need to know whether the maniac was an Avi type or a Banksy type?

2100!..."I rise dealer...make it two point one farrrrrrsand!"

my initial post ITT seems really douchey - wasn't meant to come across like that at all, sorry.

it wasnt even relevant to the hand that much

Easy fold against most in the tournament.

LOL  No Prob...we have all made douchey comments somewhere along the line...

Sigh ok u got me...David Tearle..flame away non trophy winnarrrr

i came to this conclusion after the fact..... for the record after having a think i decided to call, get shown Ak..which I think is the bottom of our mans range now and see two kings flop .... leaving me crippled and exiting shortly afterwards...

to show how good i'm running... last night i 3 barrelled into the flopped nuts and then got slow rolled by a limp caller who had Q 8 os on a J 8 8 2 rainbow board. He dwelt for a full minute before reluctantly calling....

the Q 8 hand is a nice example of our standard oppo's utg+1 limp calling ranges in these comps...

Fml how am I in the rubdown camp?

All I was saying is never talk poker with former blonde member Vincent Calenti.

Lol guilty by association IMO

What can I say....u run bad

Ok I'm joining Chomps and former blonde member celtic in the rubdown camp from now on

obv right of retaliation holds :)

bingo. id honestly make the guy sweat for 4/5 mins before normally folding mind, def get some loon bluffers there who will start shitting themselves when focused on.
who was it?

David Tearle

It was the well-known Luton lunatic and trophy-holding David Twirl! That dude is a nuttttttah across the baize!

id give him the respect of thinking about folding, then call.