Still making the right play?

[the sicilian]

Been running bad and confidence is low even though playing pretty well (managing tonget to last two tables with no hands and then getting rivered  type of thing) but now beginning to doubt seemingly simple stuff.

This hand is intriguing due to nature of tourney, opponents and chip stack.

Live freeze out with mega slow structure. Blinds 150/300 25 ante.... Table is full of pretty terrible live players many of whom belong to the limp call brigade irrespective of position. I have found the iso range raise that they will generally fold to but on the whole I haven't been overly active and picked spots to garner chips.

Utg limps... Standard station that likes to bluff a bit and has the odd move in his locker . Two other limpers..me BB with QQ... I make it 2100 from 15k.. Slightly bigger than usual but as i said the table is full of limp callers and I could well be playing this hand op 4 handed..... Utg then shoves for a total of 13k...

Now here's the thing..with a perceived significant edge and still deep is there a case for a fold here?  Do we think utg is playing the standard ( yawn) limp shove with aces? Or his range is wide enough we are going to be nicely ahead to make this a +ev call when considering opponents and more than workable stack. Do we need to call here or just continue to play v weaker opponents without endangering our tournament?

Ps. Any comments from Celtic will be ignored due to him being tez and only saying things to spite me

[muckthenuts]

Now here's the thing..with a perceived significant edge and still deep is there a case for a fold here?  Do we think utg is playing the standard ( yawn) limp shove with aces? Or his range is wide enough we are going to be nicely ahead to make this a +ev call when considering opponents and more than workable stack. Do we need to call here or just continue to play v weaker opponents without endangering our tournament?

Maybe find a fold if you truly believe you're behind his range, but I really hate hearing anyone justify folding to "find a better spot" because it's such flawed logic. Any spot that is +ev is a spot that you should take and that's all there should be to it.

[Doobs]

I don't think you will go far wrong by assuming a live limp reraiser has KK, AA or AK and nothing else.  I am guessing you'd see AK as often as AA, and KK a bit less.

It is so rare you see anything else that you don't really need to worry about it.

Think that makes it a puke fold.

I'd raise a bit less pre too.

[SuuPRlim]

Now here's the thing..with a perceived significant edge

this is such a massively over considered point, ask yourself these questions

 1) why am i so mush better
 2) how do i use advantage of my >skill

if you dont get this you dont get tourney poker im afriad

[the sicilian]

Now here's the thing..with a perceived significant edge and still deep is there a case for a fold here?  Do we think utg is playing the standard ( yawn) limp shove with aces? Or his range is wide enough we are going to be nicely ahead to make this a +ev call when considering opponents and more than workable stack. Do we need to call here or just continue to play v weaker opponents without endangering our tournament?

Maybe find a fold if you truly believe you're behind his range, but I really hate hearing anyone justify folding to "find a better spot" because it's such flawed logic. Any spot that is +ev is a spot that you should take and that's all there should be to it.

Not really a better spot issue..just because we are still so deep the question is do we need to risk a massive potential flip here and now when we can move our stack north with little or no risk

[the sicilian]

Now here's the thing..with a perceived significant edge

this is such a massively over considered point, ask yourself these questions

 1) why am i so mush better
 2) how do i use advantage of my >skill

if you dont get this you dont get tourney poker im afriad

1) This is my local casino in which I know all the regs games..a few new faces coming in lately but with easily identifiable games. I have one of the best records in these £50-£100 fouts over the last 3 years

2) i think because of my ( perceived edge) i don't need to get involved in potentially tournament damaging hands this early where i'm possibly flipping at best..different stage of the tourney with different stacks its an auto call..but right here right now with these conditions i should probably fold. Think too much emphasis these days is placed on crossing fingers and lumping huge amounts of chips in pre flop. I play a small ball game and getting involved in these huge pots so early without a significant equity goes against this ethos... As I said bad runs breeds indescision and second guessing

[EvilPie]

Now here's the thing..with a perceived significant edge

this is such a massively over considered point, ask yourself these questions

 1) why am i so mush better
 2) how do i use advantage of my >skill

if you dont get this you dont get tourney poker im afriad

If you don't get this you haven't actually got an edge anyway.

[GreekStein]

Who do you talk poker with most?

Boom, think I hit the nail on the head.

[EvilPie]

Raise less. 1500 is plenty.

Fold to the shove.

I don't mind passing QQ or AK with 50 bigs given this action.

Live to fight another day.

[Doobs]

We are passing this because it is a bad spot, not because it is a good spot and we are waiting for a better one. 

Much of this discussion is irrelevant to the situation.

[the sicilian]

Who do you talk poker with most?

Boom, think I hit the nail on the head.

sorry forgot to say Celtic & Greeky shall be ignored

[the sicilian]

Raise less. 1500 is plenty.

Fold to the shove.

I don't mind passing QQ or AK with 50 bigs given this action.

Live to fight another day.

yeah think its a fold..slightly bigger initial raise as stated before because we are op to serial limp callers..this type of sizing usually gets the majority to fold enough to get hup or take it down

[George2Loose]

What's smallball about making it 2100?

[StuartHopkin]

Raise less. 1500 is plenty.

Fold to the shove.

I don't mind passing QQ or AK with 50 bigs given this action.

Live to fight another day.

yeah think its a fold..slightly bigger initial raise as stated before because we are op to serial limp callers..this type of sizing usually gets the majority to fold enough to get hup or take it down

Why do we want to get heads up or take it down?

[kukushkin88]

It seems incredible to me that the consensus here is to fold. His range is probably more like 8-8+, AJ+ and even a few suited connectors. He´s described as "standard station likes to bluff a bit and has the odd move in his locker" and we´re giving him a range in this spot of AA,KK and AK. We can just about fold here versus a real nit (still don´t like it) but against a player of this description it should be going in imo.