blonde poker forum

The Grand Final of Coral Late Night Poker starts on Channel 4 tonight at 12.55am.

(Concludes next Monday)

The line up is :-

Ram Vaswani
Roberto Romanello
James Dempsey
Luke Schwartz
Andrew Feldman
Sam Holden
Simon Trumper
Rob Okell

Commentary from Vicky Coren and James Akenhead.

What has happened to Jessee May?

 I have been watching the series but have found the Aikenhead/Coren commentary very wooden and dull to listen to. Prefer Channing in the commentary box with JM every day of the week.

The UKIP commentary's with Liv Boree and Nick whilst not on JM's level are at least fun and their is a chemistry between them

Jesse is contracted to Matchroom, who dont do this one or the UKIPTs.

Shame as he is the greatest

Vicky is OK, but I'm sick of Aikenhead's constantly telling us how wrong everybody is playing every hand.

Thanks for the heads up - I would have missed this otherwise.

Gabe and AJ - 10/10
Nick and Liv - 9/10




Vicky and James 1/10

Will still watch it to see how some of my close personal friends get on.

Nick and Liv - 9/10 ? How? He is one of, if not the, most annoying people on TV, and she's desperately dull (pretty yes, but dull)

Vicky and James 1/10? That must be a big negative score for James, Vicky Coren is the bees knees. She may not do great poker analysis, but she is at least interesting and funny.

im glad akenhead tells it how he sees it. Imo he's been correct on his analysis close to 100% of the time, vicky is just clueless altogether. Gimme Akenhead and james mitchell anyday of the week

(Reply to "hombre32" also).

By sheer chance, Jesse rung me this morning on a business matter, during which he accepted my invite to appear on Ch 865, Sky  (http://affiliatehub.skybet.com/processing/clickthrgh.asp?btag=a_4080b_3)Poker (http://affiliatehub.skybet.com/processing/clickthrgh.asp?btag=a_4080b_3), shortly.

Things have changed dramatically @ Matchroom, & he is no longer exclusively contracted to them, rather, he works for them now on an "as & when" Freelance basis. The demise of TV Poker, & FTP, has affected Matchroom considerably in the poker area, though not in other, non-poker  ways.

So, my read is that we will see a lot more of Jesse in the future, but in non-Matchroom stuff.

He's fine & dandy, too, having just celebrated Thanksgiving "in some style", I gather.

The guy is an absolute one-off, & he thinks on a different plane to most. His twitter handle is "@ScurrilousMay", & he is well worth following, he comes out with some amazing stuff, all of it wholly original.

He still does a regular Blog for PokerFarm, too.

He'll not go hungry, or skinto.

akenhead is really good, coren is an abs jok, shes stupidly terrible and her ept commentary is even worse. gtfo the mic mate.

think she's good for fish, obv not excellent for pha for real players.

good mix imo

Nick is an absolute hero, you're the first person i've met to say otherwise. Liv is alright.

Vicky is the bees knees [ ], interesting [ ], funny [ ].

That will be one for the sky plus for sure, Jesse is one of my genuine heroes

Actually he would be pretty awesome as a host on 865, surely there must be some third wheels hanging around well past their sell-by date?

I'm looking over my shoulder as we speak, insecurities fully engaged. Fortunately, or otherwise, I would assume he has bigger fish to fry.

As you say, "good mix".

There is, I suspect, a lack of understanding here as to whom these Shows are directed towards - & it's NOT the 1% or so of the regular viewing public who might be interested in PHA & the like. Yes, for the PHA types, maybe James Akenhead is right on the money, (& I'm sure he is) but there's little commercial angle in preaching to the mature & captive market - they already have Accounts with all the Corals & all the major rooms!

Miss Coren could not be better at what she does - talking in lay language to lay - that is to say non-converted - viewers. She also works the Shows hard on S-M, and has a following which is probably 100 times that of James, or any other available commentator or colour commentator. Her profile in poker may be lower, (though she is not without success, by any means) but to the target audience - the Great British viewing public, it's not even close.

Poker players live in a very insular little world. The Shows are aimed primarily at a much bigger world.

I'm not having a pop here, but it's rather a shame to see Miss Coren's work so badly misunderstood, albeit by such a small % of the target audience.

Off the back of that, if you were to ask me Coral's financial logic in spending all that money on the Show - let's call it 7 figues - I'd be lost for the answer. It's a pretty small room. As in pretty, but small. No way on God's earth could it have achieved payback on LNP.

of course I'd be shocked if they spent 7 figures on it, the state of the market isn't what it was post US lockout and BF/FTP etc, but there are a lot of good reasons why an ipoker skin might want to spend a great amount of money on the right kind of sponsorship, particularly in an institution like LNP.

There are some other reasons that might mean this kind of advertising as a non-standalone room don't make sense at all (and why you rarely see it!) and it's based on the idea that it's incred hard to see a return on your investment in such a big campaign when there are so many skins that don't contribute to the network.

They do a decent job imo, but the 1st ep of the final was pretty tilting that every single play was described as "great" when most where just pretty standard spots. I don't think any poker show would work on mainstream tv if it was just two good poker players discussing hands and theory, it wouldn't work.

This may be an age thing... I guess he may appeal to the Nuts/Zoo readers

Have you seen any of Vicky's other work? Only Connect is one of the more thoughtful quiz/game shows on offer these days, and she's always good value on the various panel shows. Her book about her life in and out of poker and that EPT win is a really good read too.

 I'm a fan of all vicky's work as she is super intelligent and super attractive. Pha may not be up to speed but she has all the appeal I require. Horses for courses

[/quote]

This may be an age thing... I guess he may appeal to the Nuts/Zoo readers

Have you seen any of Vicky's other work? Only Connect is one of the more thoughtful quiz/game shows on offer these days, and she's always good value on the various panel shows. Her book about her life in and out of poker and that EPT win is a really good read too.
[/quote]


The bolded part comes across as pretty patronising to be honest.  To suggest that Nick's witty, occasionally dry and always very original style mirrors the base, cheap laughs dross printed in Nuts or Zoo does him an immense disservice.  Maybe some people just need to lighten up a bit.  He is very talented.  In my opinion of course.  I only buy Nuts for the tits.

No one has questioned Vicky's talent in general, only in LNP where it has to be said that she struggles quite badly. 

In my eyes, poker commentary should include a team of 2; a high level thinker with a good understanding of concepts and plays, and a lay person with an ability to translate these occasionally complex ideas into words understandable to the average Joe.  Vicky does not fit into either of these categories unfortunately.

She is fit though.


 

Quality quoting tekkers as per...

enjoyed this though

Without doubt the highlight for me of this LNP series has been watching the online qualifer Mr Okell, who had barely ever played live - let alone ending up on TV for one of his first encounters with the (non-virtual) green baize.

Watching the poor sod's trauma and pain - as he's wrestled with decisions - when 'put to the test' by the relaxed pros has been rivetting.

When he had A 9 in the BB to a shove, he grimmaced , he tanked, he grimmaced     ...    and eventually called, successfully.

The 'sniffy comments' and bemusement of his fellow players/commentary team over, "what was he waiting for?" made me laugh.

The very people who get pompous over some poor rookie lad's dwelling in the biggest tourny of his life     .....        are often those who've had/still require staking in their poker careers.

Gripping stuff watching his emotions & facial expressions as he - very visibly - computes what to do in situations that are to many "auto call" situations.

I'll bet that many of those that have smirked at his pain swear at learner drivers too      .......

Not having looked up the result on THM, gl Mr Okell.

This may be an age thing... I guess he may appeal to the Nuts/Zoo readers

Have you seen any of Vicky's other work? Only Connect is one of the more thoughtful quiz/game shows on offer these days, and she's always good value on the various panel shows. Her book about her life in and out of poker and that EPT win is a really good read too.
[/quote]


The bolded part comes across as pretty patronising to be honest.  To suggest that Nick's witty, occasionally dry and always very original style mirrors the base, cheap laughs dross printed in Nuts or Zoo does him an immense disservice.  Maybe some people just need to lighten up a bit.  He is very talented.  In my opinion of course.  I only buy Nuts for the tits.

No one has questioned Vicky's talent in general, only in LNP where it has to be said that she struggles quite badly. 

In my eyes, poker commentary should include a team of 2; a high level thinker with a good understanding of concepts and plays, and a lay person with an ability to translate these occasionally complex ideas into words understandable to the average Joe.  Vicky does not fit into either of these categories unfortunately.

She is fit though.

 
[/quote]

Talking of "pretty patronising" comments......

Ha.  I'm sure she'd take it as a compliment.

This may be an age thing... I guess he may appeal to the Nuts/Zoo readers

Have you seen any of Vicky's other work? Only Connect is one of the more thoughtful quiz/game shows on offer these days, and she's always good value on the various panel shows. Her book about her life in and out of poker and that EPT win is a really good read too.
[/quote]


The bolded part comes across as pretty patronising to be honest.  To suggest that Nick's witty, occasionally dry and always very original style mirrors the base, cheap laughs dross printed in Nuts or Zoo does him an immense disservice.  Maybe some people just need to lighten up a bit.  He is very talented.  In my opinion of course.  I only buy Nuts for the tits.

No one has questioned Vicky's talent in general, only in LNP where it has to be said that she struggles quite badly. 

In my eyes, poker commentary should include a team of 2; a high level thinker with a good understanding of concepts and plays, and a lay person with an ability to translate these occasionally complex ideas into words understandable to the average Joe.  Vicky does not fit into either of these categories unfortunately.

She is fit though.


 
[/quote]

If that was patronising then I withdraw it.
It doesn't alter my view of the presentational style of Mr Wealthall though. Witty and dry? Really? Maybe I should stop fastforwarding through the 'felt fact breaks'

You don't know Vicky, I assume?

No but should our paths cross i'd like to think that she'd be tolerant of my point of view and be able to take a compliment.

Lol. I was sat on a table of sharks including Neil Channing at the irish open when she came over to tell him of her demise in level 2 and wondering what the hell she was gonna do in Dublin for the next few days.
[ ] suggesting playing the ladies side event went down well with her
[X] made everyone else laugh

Hello Vicky.  :hello:

Welcome to blonde

Hello... Neil told me to have a look at the Blonde forum because "they're saying nice things about you". lol, MARVELLOUS....

Sorry you're not enjoying the LNP commentary. Just to clarify something though -


  Sure: that's exactly the principle by which poker commentary's always done. On LNP, I'm meant to be in the second category! Tikay's right, you're looking at it in the wrong way: you're thinking of me as a poker player, and disappointed that I don't seem to be on top of the technical lingo you'd use to analyse plays. But that's not how the audience would be thinking of me generally. James is there for the pro analysis, and I'm there to introduce / translate / fill in narrative / make the odd joke. When you say "a lay person", have you thought about what it would be like if that job was ACTUALLY done by a lay person? It has to be someone who plays poker, otherwise it's like getting a translator who only speaks English and has no idea what his Japanese client is banging on about.
  I'm working in exactly the same tradition as Jesse May (and so is Nick Wealthall), trying to bring colour and humour and a bit of explanation alongside the technical stuff. I'd never claim to be as good as Jesse, only an admiring disciple of his approach, and of course I'm sorry if you think it's rubbish - but it's a bit harsh to say that Jesse's brilliant and I'm clueless about poker. That's not comparing like with like. A more logical comparison would be: Jesse's entertaining and I'm just dull lol. Or, of course, it could be: Jesse's brilliant at poker and I'm terrible at it - but you'd really have to say that based on watching us both play, rather than anything we're trying to do in the commentary box.

  Another note of clarification:


  Of COURSE I'd take that as a compliment! Anyone who thinks I wouldn't... jeez, if you think I take life that seriously, then my intro jokes on LNP really AREN'T working!

Anyway, that's all - sorry I won't see any replies to this, but I don't look at poker forums much (only the Hendon Mob when they put my column up really, in case anyone has questions) - not that this isn't a great forum, but I'm always juggling too much stuff and don't have time.

  Also means you're quite free to carry on saying what a terrible commentator I am and I won't see that either... but I've got the gist. ;-)

1st

Vicky FWIW you're much better on LNP than the EPT. In the EPT where you're the "expert" it just doesn't work.

agree

Really enjoyed Frank Skinner's show. Vicky comes across really well.

how did you know?!

Tell me you are not serious, Alex?! If you are, PM me, & I will reveal Red's "secret" way of knowing.

I really do get the desire to mother you sometimes, you are so sweet.

Don't tell him about my relationship with Vicky FFS. It will be all over the forum.

Hi Victoria,

I think the main problem is that you try to chime in too much with strategical POV. James will say something correct and you will be like nah thats wrong. If he is the expert and you are self admittedly the "lay" guy then trust in him to speak sense. FWIW I think James was awesome and would love to hear him on next years series.

I love the way you speak about non strategical parts of the game, your descriptions and introductions to the final is better than any I've heard before, including Jesse and I bet you scripted them yourself too.

In summary you come across really well, but it is just a little bit cringy when you are trying to comment on the level of play that some of the guys are doing when only James can get remotely close. OFC chemistry is a big thing when it comes to commentating so realise that it is pretty hard to just sit there saying puns and telling jokes. I did a commentary for PokerStrategy.com with Mulhuzz and although it was extremely difficult I thoroughly enjoyed myself.

Stick around the forum. See you in PHA The Lougne.

Seriously V Coren needs to be on every poker show :)

My Dad and brother watch some poker shows.  They understand the basics of the game, but have only played a handful of times in fun home-games.  So they don't understand the real in-depth analysis, but appreciate the explanation of what is going on.

Not really a criticism of Vicky or James, but my Dad far prefers the UKIPT coverage - simply because the production is better. Simple things, such as showing what the blinds are on the screen, how large each bet is and how much it is to call, etc. which are missing from the LNP.  This means it can be difficult for him to follow exactly what's going on in a hand through the streets, especially if the hand involves three or more players and goes on for some time.  So he tends to watch the UKIPT more than LNP, maybe the format is just more interesting?  He's a big fan of Vicky's though on Only Connect.

Not sure if he's the standard 'target' audience, but I'm sure he's not atypical. 

Eh?

 rotflmfao

Completley disagree with this - You make out like he plays 2£ tourneys, and that he's never played poker before? - OK maybe not live no, but online he won a seat from 100£/$ - That's pretty big buy in for someone who doesn't have a clue? - And if you had just won a 10k seat whatever it was, wouldn't you be reading up/asking friends a bit more about the game if u didn't have a clue?

I understand he was nervous, and take all that into consideration, but the A9 hand was a complete joke, it wasn't all his stack, he wd still have plenty of chips after the hand if he lost, so imo it looked bad.

And you touch up on the 'players that need to be staked' would only think this is a slowroll? - What has being staked got to do with anything? - Really bad comment imo. I am keeping this sweet as I don't know how to word it properley to what I want to say...

As for Vicky, I think she gets a super tough time, I've always been a fan, just think she is so witty, charasmatic, she just has things that u can't learn, u can't buy, they are naturally from within u as a person, so imo that what makes the show lively and funny, I would not like to tune in a see a couple of boring farts sitting there talking non stop about how he only had 20% fold equity, how it is -EV to play the hand this way blah blah, I would turn it straight off tbh.

The fact is, yes it is a poker show, yes they are showing a poker tournament, but there needs the humar, a bit of fun thrown in too, as it is your average joe who will be watching - If I'm looking for expert anaylis, I log on to a training video website.

Sorry to be blunt but.. She comes across as a nice lady, but one who doesn't understand poker in its 2012 form. Just the same as Mrs Red or Hannah I guess.

so want to put poty but dont want people to know i'm a sexist pig :)

Not sure how:


and


can coexist?

:dontask:

one is pleno's opinion, the other is his hackers :)

:D

Hannah is amazing at poker :)

i see pleno's not the only one to have his acct hacked lately....

and you would make an amazing quiz show host :)

If this was the hand vs Selbst, it was him allin to call as he won hand and she was left with 3 big blinds. I can imagine playing your first teklevised tourny is pretty nerve wracking and didn't think he was slowrolling, just obviously hadn't done his research on Vanessa's style :)

GG Pleno, absolutely OWNED.

luther's post is BS, people staked at poker are almost 100% long term winners who are just degenorates with their own money. People who play who arent staked are (in my experience either really good players who are exceptional bank roll management guys) i.e Pab, eames
or players that play recreationally or people that play full time that arent deemed good enough to get staked.

As for vicky, no-one would really object to her analysis  apart from the fact she states it in such an objective, condescending manner that only she can be right. She states cases for folding/calling/raising so vehemently that any viewers would latch onto her thoughts as gospel. If there is a huge coup to send poker thinking back into the stone age and no-one has told me then its sterling work. As a person ive no doubt she is a bubbly and great character and very intelligent and astute.

<3 Trigg

Some sick moves by Rob Oakell, played very well and hoped he'd get the win, glgl flipping vs Sam Golden (played well also, congrats), vwp.

Interesting line from Simon Trumper to open ep from 18 bbs with AKos peel a 3b for 1/3 of his stack and c/f a J9xhh flop, especially after how vocal his criticism of Shaun's line was in the MC with AK.

While Trigg makes some excellent points i think that poker programmes are made for non serious players in the main. Let them players, who may take up more interest in the game, think as much incorrect strategy as possible imo.
Okell made some cracking moves in the final

Glory be, the thread got there in the end.

Just watched the final very well played Gary was hoping he would win . Luke is a complete tosser moans about every 1 was made up he got beat

fml. Spoiler alerts next time please! i know, i know, guess its my own fault for opening the thread. ahhhhhhh.

I was a while behind and have just been catching up. Romanello vs Schwarz where Roberto 3 barrelled by jamming the river was great viewing imo.

wtf is gary!

little less classier

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/37/televised-poker/vicky-coren-sucks-1129803/index5.html

Just looked at link how dose a forum get away with that . She dosen't deserve that

She'll not worry too much about what a bunch of kids in their back bedroom say, her career has been an unmitigated success from start to finish, & in everything she has done, even in poker, (a mere sideshow to her life) where she has achieved more than any of her detractors ever will.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victoria_Coren

Well said very childish and jealous springs 2 mind I'm sure it won't bother her . Just bad how a forum allows it

its nvg brah. but ya agreed.

Amen to that. And no, from her lofty & successful perch in life, she'll manage OK without the career advice.

She has so many strings to her bow, too - TV, Radio, newspaper columnist, author of a wonderful book, & much much more besides. And when she's not working, a bit of poker now & then, including an EPT victory. Just as a sideline, like. Her critics can but wish to be one tenth so gifted.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jbyo458wun8&feature=relmfu

Still think this was a great call, and made a massive impact in her going on to win, took a lot of guts to make and specially liked the way she showed grace when knocking a fellow player out, wp.

Nothing interesting about it at all. While Sean was in the final 4 of the MC and therefore in the money i was in an STT final with 5 getting paid and 7 left so you adapt, simples.

Cheers

ACES

Yeah Ray. Haven't you ever played an STT before?

LOL brilliant

+1

LOL

Lolling very hard here

I vicky is great at what she does, and I thought okell played a blinder.

If I was producing a poker show for a mainstream audience I couldn't think of a better commentator than Vicky Coren. So many attributes, but importantly she is a sublime and witty wordsmith who can build excitement and tension. People should realise she isn't providing a tutorial service but giving her opinions as she sees it. I don't know why she should be chastised for being confident about her views, I mean the fact that a woman can have determined opinions about poker on a mainstream show is a wonderful thing and good for the game overall. She is prob a better player than most of her audience and experienced more success than most of her audience so she is a perfectly qualified commentator for that audience. I always find it funny when snobby poker grinders worry that opinions can teach other people to play bad. I figure they must be very caring people underneath for worrying like that.

Just finished reading Vicky Coren's book.

Really excellent, very well written & seems very authentic to me and so much to identify with (don't know if very is needed in front of a word like authentic).

Anyway, very honest, quite moving in parts and evocative of another time and place as well as bringing us up to speed with where poker had got to at the time the book was written.

It's gotta be a 10/10

This in a nutshell.

How funny it is that people give their opinion in a forthright manner as if anything else must be ridic but then complain that someone being paid to provide comm/colour and excitement says it as she see's it.

Vicky is brill at what she does, plays good poker and is very very approachable for someone in her position.