blonde poker forum

couple people said they didnt like the line here, so thought id post for mroe opinions, we are 900 left, out of 5k starts and 700 get paid.

average is 55k, i have an aggro image.

thoughts? and il say my thoughts after people replied.

http://www.handconverter.com/hands/1769856

why though? I just had J6o and folded to an open, felt fine about it.

the question to you guys first is why not

mmmm lol I don't really know why not. the only real fault I can pick with the hand is that we have T5o, this is quite a massive fault though.

Its a dogshit hand. If you want to 3bet a shit ton at least 3bet something. T5o is a battleship hand. Your not getting enough folds and your hand is awful post, with no backdoors or potential draws.

wow i thought it was only me that miss typed the

nobody ever watched galfonmds firts ever video :(

I assumed from the offset this wasnt you in the hand?

You know we can't reload right?

nor can he..

I really don't understand the question?!

I don't know why we 3bet T5o, I think the flop c-bet is really stnd, and the turn bet is, I assume an attempt to get him of A9s, AJ/AQ without the J/Q of clubs and some clubless pocket pairs (mostly 88/99 and maybe JJ) and I think it's pretty reasonable to assume he'll fold all these.

Will he fold Ax Qc? or Ax Jc or maybe even Tc Tc? IDK, maybe but do we need to bet more than the pot to get those other hands to fold? I'm not sure I think we put those hands under enough with a reg size bet and I don't think we force enough of the stronger hands out with a bigger bet compared to that of a regular bet.

Having said all this I don't really know, agree betting is >> checking though but I think the hand is pretty spew personally

btw im not posting the hand just because i won and did something funky, want opinions from others too. i dont think dont 3bet x hand is a very valid argument though, spot > hand in most spots.

The answer to this question is as simple as "dude, you have T5o...wtf you thinking?" It would be fair to say this hand is right down at the bottom of your range. And I don't mean the bottom of your 3betting range... I mean the bottom of your getting dealt range!

If you are 3betting with close to the worst hand you can get dealt then what you are essentially saying is "this is such a great bluff spot that I can profitably 3bet 100% of my range". Now every now and then you find situations where this is true, and if you were able to give extremely detailed reads/dynamics etc to explain why at the precise moment in time that you played this hand table conditions were such that you could profitably 3bet bluff with 100% of your hands... well fine. I guess. But otherwise you should be using randomisation by equity to construct your bluffing ranges. And T5o is right down the bottom of the equity spectrum, both with regard to hot and cold equity and postflop playability (i.e. ability to use postflop equity to semi-bluff profitably).

A profitable bluff needs a combination of fold equity plus pot equity. You have a hand that has such a small amount of pot equity that you need a huge amount of fold equity to make this a profitable preflop bluff. It really is a question of "why?", rather than "why not?". If you genuinely think that this is the best possible ever spot to run a preflop bluff and can give specific reasons why this is the case, then you can bluff without even looking at your cards (which is essentially what you have done). Otherwise you are just donking around.

srsly?

Hand > Spot in most spots imo, speshly readless.

AAAAAHAHAHAHAHA.

You're sounding more and more like John Black every day Pleno I'm sorry to say.

He played a hand with T5o recently too remember? And remember what you told him about T5o

FOLD PRE!

A lot more so when you're pretty short and 3bets are not likely to get flatted so playability is not a huge problem, its nice to have blockers but its not as much of an issue. You're definitely deep enough here to where 3bets will be flatted a decent amount so playability is definitely something that should be part of how you randomize your 3b bluffs

imo you didnt do anything wrong in this spot if you are deciding to play this hand, a lot of people have responded to folding the 10 5 however we are not raising for value in this spot but raising to put pressure on our opponents and trying to take the pot down in position? The board is tough for your opponent to call down with and you are winning the pot with raw aggression in position. You are putting pressure on as the chip leader and on the turn it leaves him with a really tough decision and an awkward chip stack. Plus we are playing the player not the cards :)

Aaron?

Ducky7, this is your first post and it is great to see new guys contributing to threads. Welcome to blonde. You have got some stuff wrong in your post, and I'll try to explain what is wrong with your thinking.


It is clear that Pleno is 3betting preflop as a bluff, rather than for value. The key point though is that this bluff, whilst it will of course work sometimes, is not profitable. Pleno has not given any indicators in his hand history that this is a spot where bluffing with any two cards would be profitable. If he had given specific reasons why he believes he can profitably get completely out of line at this particular moment vs this particular opponent then we could at least consider whether or not this bluff is profitable or not. But he hasn't given any such reasons. So there is no reason to believe that this spot is a good one. Randomly bluffing with terrible cards without specific reasons is not the right way to play profitable poker.


This is one of those poker cliches that sounds lovely but doesn't actually mean anything in this particular hand. Pleno has not given a single read on this player so we cannot be 'playing the player'.

Equity when called please.

Suited or connected at least.

Thanks for the welcome, and i had presumed he had information on the player, which would make this play more profitable even though he hadn't stated it, I guess i missed out putting that in my initial quote. However what you have said has been taken on board, when i was writing that i wasnt thinking about the play in the long run but about this hand specifically

Aaron?
[/quote]

no im not Aaron ha :)

Mr. Honeybadger said something a few threads ago that is extremely apt.



This is referring to pre-flop ofc, not the turn.

It applies to the turn just as much IMHO.

Ok.

I guess should go into more detail about why I wanted to 3bet, guy was nitty and this was his biggest buy in, he did however open alot and had won quite recently aa v kk vs me, although I've been really aggro I've shown down aa, qq ad ajs at showdown, this with a combination that the bubble is coming up soon and the fact his 4b6b range is super narrow and my at the time thought that I had an we post flop and a lot of boards he just wouldn't be able to do anything on made me want to 3bet. I dont think pre flop is questionable at all, would 3bet here 100% if given the hand and situ, I didn't go into detail because I asked for opinions on the tub rather than preflop or flop which I'm both v v happy about and probably 'aaroned' ... Unable to convince otherwise..

On the turn it's a one liner and a flush has complete, with pot to stack I can never bet then and jan river with normal sizibgs so 23 was tryin to 1)set up a perceived river shove and 2) fold out everything but the top of his rave and sometime aq with qc. I figured his value range = 33,44 and ofc flushes whilst the rest of his range included some pairs, aq aj a10 and perhaps some other hands. I also chose o overbettong evade I think it massively decreases the chance of him c/jammin the turn as a semi bluff and even with the time he does get stubborn with ax we have a 5 sometimes clubs and a 2 as save cards whilst vs his sets we have clubs ad a 2 as save cards.

Furthermore I think people look at average chops etc far too much and will fold so so much here where above average chips and close to the bubble on a relatively soft table on one of the bigger games on their schedule. 

yh I guess it does. Making the turn play pretty fine imo, although I still maintain I'm not sure we really need to overbet the turn.

Completely agree with everything Honeybadger has said. Don't really see how this spot is so good to 3-bet that T5 becomes a 3-bet, even though villain can peel and you may have to play out some streets with this 'hand'.

Also don't really see what the over-bet on the turn achieves. Sure it will get some more combos to fold, AJ AT, some pairs with FDs etc. But do you really get enough hands to fold to this bet-size in relation to how many hands in villains range he would be folding to a standard turn bet-size to make this play +EV? Seems like he has to be calling with quite a decent chunk of his range to a std bet-size and folding almost everything to this one for it to be a good play.

to be fair we can make every straight

we can make all but 1 straight :D

Which one is it....

56789?

KQA23?

This makes more sense :P

Hmmmm... this is not what I meant when I said it applied to the turn too! We don't really have any significant equity on the turn when our bet is called. Especially given the size of the turn bet. Yes we have a 5-outer, but it is not even guaranteed to be good so we have to heavily discount that. I suppose we do have the wheely chop, but whatever.

Whole hand is horrible... sorry Pleno1.

The expression aaroned is brilliant and needs a lot of love imo.

Basically, as we say the whole hand is a compound of the 3bet pre-flop. I don't dislike the turn play particularly once we've gotten there, but I think ending up there is a mistake personally

Wait till 2016 you all gonna quote this thread and be like lol you were 4 years ahead of time, then in 2919 we all gonna be like lol2016 3bet jj+ you morons

#delussion