blonde poker forum

OK gonna sound really provincial and nitty here...

Been for a meal in The Smoke tonight. Bill comes and includes service charge. 12.5%

I normally tip about 10%, but the presumptuousness of this p*ssed me off a little...especially as I wasn't thrilled with the service. It wasn't awful, but it was very average.

I can't recall seeing this before...whats the legalities of it all?

Should I be allowed to remove it and tip as I see fit?

Happened to me in a place in London too, the service had been very minimal so as we were paying cash we just deducted it and gave our own, smaller, tip.

Not sure how legal it was.

Becoming more and more common. Seems wrong to me.

Service charge is entirely optional.

12.5% is super standard though - even the Conglomerated Union of Scottish and Yorkshire Misers is shaking their heads at your financial carefulness.

Annoying, but unfortunately getting more common especially in nicer restaurants, never told them to GTFO yet though.....

My folks used to have a restaurant. We never had a service charge but many restaurant owner friends did.

Service charge is not the same as tipping! I wish restaurants were more transparent about this. The restaurant owners can legally keep the money. When this is done it is often justified by saying it covers breakages or goes towards staff wages. Same goes for leaving a tip on a debit/credit card. Leaving cash is the most likely way for the staff to get it.

I would pay the service charge but deduct my attendance fee.

It really winds me up though it seems to be more prevalent in The South...London , Oxford ,Dorset etc though I think its fair to say there are more "nicer restaurants" than up here in The North

If the service is good I always tip 10-15% anyway  but when presented with a bill that has an additional service charge I tend to take exception . I ask for it to be removed , sometimes getting an interview from the manager in the process , and will leave no tip normally muttering words like " we wont come here again"

Tom is right we should charge them an attendance fee

Quite shocked at this! Why call it a service charge if it's not for the service?
Saying it's towards wages is terrible, the customer shouldn't be paying the their staff.
It's not like have your plate brought to you is an optional extra, anyway. If it is I'd be quite happy to go into the kitchen and dish my own up!

In some Vegas eateries they surcharge 18% for parties of 8 or more. WTF is that all about? Why should it make any difference, you are after all bringing more money into the place.

I thought service charge was common although not in places I goto often. If its for wages then that should be on price of meal rather than a hidden extra as some people will goto a place as its cheaper then find out its not massive con

pretty sure you don't have to pay it.

but it seems standard in the more expensive restaurants now.

 I was once in a bar in hk I was out and bought a bottle of tequila and got charged service charge. all he did was get the bottle and handed it to me. they tried to charge me 20£ for this "service"

That is very common in the US for groups.

Not only do you not have to pay it....you legally dont have to pay the full bill if you dont think the meal experience was worth it.
You can pay what you think is a fair price....leave your name and address..... and they can bring a civil action against you for the difference if they want!

Surely if the restaurant wanted to charge an additional 12.5% on top of the price of the food and drinks, the simplest solution is to increase all their prices by....12.5%?

The service charge is split between the waiting/kitchen staff, it doesn't go to the restaurant.

They could do that from the money taken from the food anyway.  If it costs £100 and they take out £12.50, does it matter if they call it a 12.5% service charge or if it's just £12.50 taken from the price for the food (and the total price goes towards the service, the utility bills, ingredients, rent, etc.).

I would say it matters because if you add 12.5% to the menu price that restaurant will look expensive compared to everyone else and the business will suffer. It's a seperate charge because it's unrelated to the restaurant and their overheads, it's a gratuity from you directly to the staff. And as such you don't have to pay it if you don't want to. If it was quoted as the price on the menu you would be obligated to pay it.

So the difference is just the obligation side, and the perception in terms of comparative costs to customers? 

I'm not sure how many people would pick one restaurant over another because a steak in one costs £20 and £25 in the other, and in the £25 one there isn't an additional service charge.  Would people do that?

I wouldn't eat in a restaurant that forced me to tip staff by including it in the price of the food.

I think there are a lot of people who would pick choice over no choice.

If people don't think the service charge reflects the level of service they received simply ask for it to be taken off the bill.

If I spot a service charge on my bill then I will refuse to pay it. I will also not tip the staff. And the last thing I do is make a point of telling them this.

If I think the service is good then I will happily tip, but do not dare presume to include it in the bill yourself.

And the other thing is it's a good way to con a double tip. I've done it before where I've just glanced at the total and mentally added on the 10%. And then someone else has spotted the service charge added on. GTFO.

R u telling me you don't have to pay it ?   Lol fmel all these years I've paid it and didn't realise sigh....

They have service charge at harvester?

as I said earlier it will turn people away if they are more expensive than next door. I know people who refuse to goto certain pubd as the drinks are 20p more expensive

Some of us have frequented eating establishments where the height of cullinary excelllance doesnt stop at Piri piri sauce...

Service charge is entirely optional and you can take it off and set your own.

I normally top up the 12.5% by an extra £30 at the places I go to in London regularly though.   It's a relatively small amount on the bill and makes a huge difference to being able to get tables when they are fully booked, get the best tables location wise and get amazing service. 

(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_76OP6x2f14k/TD9NSkmN73I/AAAAAAAAAz4/hGCWShv3clI/s1600/resdogs0806.jpg)

Who are those guys?

Level?

I was about to ask the same thing.

Some obscure TV actors, one assumes?

Steve Buscemi on the left whose proper famous...and chris penn also pretty famous in reservoir dogs....

They are the ones who dress up as Darleks.

Spoilsport

Never heard of either.

No - seriously don't know who they are.  Don't watch much TV apart from sport.

Actually - do know Steve Buscemi now you remind me.  But what does he have to do with this thread?

shakes head slowly with a heavy heart

Ahh, it seems he is a film star bloke.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Buscemi

Yup, I'm a dumbass when it comes to fiction TV Shows & Films. Still, it saves me using really weird mixed analogies.  ;)

Oh dear this last page.

Yes Woodsey I realise it's common. My question was why? If there are 100 covers in a restaurant and they are all taken up why should it matter whether they are all parties of 4 or 10?

It's because large groups are more likely to bicker about splitting the bill and the tip will always get hit first?

Never heard of the Steve bloke, Sean penn was married to madonna or had a relationship at least.

Have you never sat and watched Sopranos or Boardwalk Empire inbetween Nandos?

Celtic:  "There's something between Nandos?"

Savages, how can you not have seen this:

YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=enJwYaeolXc

Nah, would happily catch up with both if I could eat nandos during though.

Must watch again soon.

Never seen the film I liked the clip though

Not another one! Whats wrong with you people?
You have seen Pulp fiction though, haven't you. Haven't you?

I have seen Pulp Fiction. And another film, too, forget the name. Goodfellas I think.

you must you must you must

nope

improve my bust?

WHAAA! I can't believe you managed to swerve both of these. I take it your the kind of guy who doesn't follow the herd.
But in this case, the herd had a really good time at the cinema, and you didn't.

On the plus side you've got it all to look forward too. So get down to Blockbusters a.s.a.p, you bring the beer, I'll bring the pizza!  ;popcorn;

Ok I'll get tge films and beer when you bringing the pizza?

Steve Buscemi?

You've not heard of him? He was by far the star of the show with his rendition of "Whole World in His Hands" - Con Air.

What a masterpiece.

Con Air was a crock of crap. Even Steve Buscemi couldn't save it.

Don't listen to this bloke Ironside, He'll be recommending Under Siege or Double Impact next.  ;)

i loved under seige and con air wasnt bad
not sure if i seen double impact but deep impact was great

Con Air wasn't great, but it was a decent enough watch, and nothing wrong with the other 2 you mentioned either ;)

Also, Buscemi played a good part in the Sopranos too

I'm amazed that people haven't heard of Steve Buscemi, totally amazed.

You have seen Under Siege and Con Air but not Pulp Fiction and Reservoir Dogs???!!???  You know when you watch documentaries on Tribes in Africa and you just find it amazing that in this day and age people live like this......

Sorry mate, but I've cancelled that pizza. It's over between us. Irreconcilable differences.  :'(

I haven't seen any of the four mentioned here

 :dontask:

S'pose it's a boy thing. I just don't enjoy those macho shoot em up, blow em up, wisecracking kind of films.

Also, I have a confession to make. I haven't got around to watching the Sopranos yet.  ;hide;

I haven't seen Pulp Fiction and Reservoir Dogs either.......

Charmed life ;)

Tikay is being modest, he rubs shoulders with the stars..
http://blondepoker.com/forum/index.php?topic=25486.msg1310092#msg1310092

Such experiences obviously wasted on him

Stephen Graham (Al Capone) lives in Ibstock (God knows why), just down the road from my sister but in ten years we've never saw him, or met anyone else who has.

http://www.thisisleicestershire.co.uk/Meet-Stephen-Graham-Hollywood-star-lives/story-12123910-detail/story.html#axzz2bPiZMM36

I have never seen sopronas either, watched red last night might get too see red 2 next week. Not seen dos or fiction due to the fact I dont like watching violence for violence sake give me a good 80s comedy any day of the week problem is I have seen most of the best ones and they seem to have over step mark from funny to gross out imho

I have to ask you one question.

How the hell did you remember that? I'd clean forgotten the whole adventure.

And yes, Thewy gave me Reservoir Dogs as a gift, & I watched the first part 5 or 6 times, but I was quite unable to bear witness to the bit where that nasty man sliced off the ear of the nice man, so I've never seen the rest of it. Bit graphic for me.

Can't say that missing a fictional film or tv series will degrade my life one iota, to be honest.

Did you see "Allotment Wars" the other night? Incredible stuff. 

Getting back to the original topic, here's a waiter that just realised the 12.5% had been removed from the bill by the unhappy customer.

I might b wrong here BUT I think legally in a restaurant you only have to pay what you believe the meal was worth.

Do we have a legal eagle in he house?

James

+1. Never heard of that guy either.

Reservoir Dogs on channel 5 at 10:55pm.
 ;popcorn;

Now you tell me.