blonde poker forum

Full Tilt Poker Game #33109861608: Table Skyline (6 max) - PL 6 Card Omaha Hi - $2/$4 - 04:54:12 WET - 2013/08/13 [23:54:12 ET - 2013/08/12]
Seat 1: looneyloo ($879.80)
Seat 2: annabelle1982 ($1,234.35)
Seat 3: brasher ($1,442.90)
Seat 4: Poisson1123 ($615)
Seat 5: fishycall ($407)
Seat 6: hero($1,150.20)
annabelle1982 posts the small blind of $2
brasher posts the big blind of $4
The button is in seat #1
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to hero [Qh 7d 8c Qs 2d 9c]
Poisson1123 folds
fishycall folds
hero raises to $12
looneyloo has 15 seconds left to act
looneyloo calls $12
annabelle1982 folds
brasher raises to $50
hero calls $38
looneyloo has 15 seconds left to act
looneyloo calls $38
*** FLOP *** [Qc 9d 2s] (Total Pot: $152, 3 Players)
brasher bets $152
hero has 15 seconds left to act
hero calls $152
looneyloo has 15 seconds left to act
looneyloo folds
*** TURN *** [Qc 9d 2s] [3s] (Total Pot: $456, 2 Players)
brasher bets $456
hero raises to $948.20, and is all in
brasher calls $492.20
hero shows [Qh 7d 8c Qs 2d 9c]
brasher shows [4d Ks Tc 7h Js Kh]
*** RIVER *** [Qc 9d 2s 3s] [8h] (Total Pot: $2,352.40, 2 Players, 1 All-In)
hero shows three of a kind, Queens
brasher shows a straight, Queen high
brasher wins the pot ($2,349.40) with a straight, Queen high
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $2,352.40 | Rake $3
Board: [Qc 9d 2s 3s 8h]
Seat 1: looneyloo (button) folded on the Flop
Seat 2: annabelle1982 (small blind) folded before the Flop
Seat 3: brasher (big blind) showed [4d Ks Tc 7h Js Kh] and won ($2,349.40) with a straight, Queen high
Seat 4: Poisson1123 didn't bet (folded)
Seat 5: fishycall didn't bet (folded)
Seat 6: hero showed [Qh 7d 8c Qs 2d 9c] and lost with three of a kind, Queens

50p at the door, welcome to blonde sir.

This is a beat?  I just assumed it was a look at the size of my flips brag.

Fold pre-flop for sure.

As for post-flop I think you're better off just potting the flop, when you get it in you get it in very shaky but given there are hardly ANY good turn cards for you, basically only 3's  4's 2's and 9's and both your back door FD's are pretty much worthless so basically you're jamming the flop purely to protect your equity against the other player in the pot (he might call with some 2p+ straight draw hand he'l fold to lots of action) the c-better is hardly ever fold once he pots and he always has something good but hopefully you've caught him spewing a bit and you can get it in ok(ish).

I actually think folding the flop is better than calling, as insane as that sounds.

Flatting the turn as played would be insane. This isn't actually a bad beat in 6c PLO it's a big mistake pre-flop and when you play these terrible hands you always get crushed. His play is pretty ropey pre-flop as well.

+1000 your hand looks pretty but its anything but in omaha you want all the cards working together not just groups of them imho

PLO, is essentially a game about FOLDS. WE make so much money when people fold (especially in 6c PLO) because people always have some decent equity against us (even if they don't realise) so we wanna play hands that are going to allow us to put the most money in aggressively post-flop. These hands are typically going to be those that flop/turn the BIGGEST draws, so we're going to be able to semi-bluff extremely profitably. With 4 cards all rundowns are good for these but in 6card PLO we really need BIG cards and nut suits. Obviously we can play a wider range of hands than that, but we really do want a decent amount of connectivity with a nut suit to be playing against 3bets for 10big blinds+ pre-flop - ESPECIALLY when you're over 250bb deep.

WIth 4cards the big pairs have a it more value (QQ74 single for example) because you can flop a queen and are much more likely to be able to get it in in great shape with 100bb's = there value decreases somewhat as it gets 200+ as you wont be able to be all-in quite as easily and you'll often find yourself flopping a SET then playing guessing games are bluff-catching on later streets. In 6card this becomes EVEN MORE  of a problem as you can't even barely bluff catch you going to flop the gin side of your hand and be forced to play it very cautiously.

Basically you have to be VERY careful about paying non-nut hands with deep stacks in 6card PLO - BIG CARDS + NUT SUITS is really what you need and you'll always find yourself in a mess with bad hands.

When playing dealers choice I always found most money could be made in the double flop omaha 6 or 7 card as people would go mental with a nut straight on one board with nothing on the other side or even queen and king high flushes I felt guilty when people with no understanding in games other than the standard nlhe and 4 card omaha sat in the dealers choice games and left with no chips with in 10-20 minutes

6 card PLO has to be played so fkn tight pre flop to be profitable it is not even enjoyable. I gave it up over year ago due to boredom.

The pre flop action and flop donk have made stacks shallower and its all gonna end up in there at some point anyway. The other guy is a complete nut job by the look of it so remember his name and play with him lots would be my advice if you must play this game.

Good luck.

welcome to blonde chnren, please post more hands.

oh and muck pre

you'd like some more notes on how Chnren plays, Jim? ;-)

trust me i have a long and expensive hand history from him.

Ha, you & me too.

He rarely seems to lose when I play him. There's a thing.....

I certainly got the impression when he plays "Live" that he is a winning player, & I've known him for many a year.

Nice lad, too.  

Sorry if I seemed overly critical btw! I know most people on here in some social capacity so they know me, just read my post back and if you've never me then it could defo have come across a bit preachy!

It's not a prob Dave.

It does alter perspective when we know the guy who features in a PHA thread.

Your advice was spot on, I enjoyed reading it, but "chnren" is anything but a novice, & perfectly competent generally. Deffo a winning player, too. Quite what was going off here, in this hand, I have no idea though.

In life, there are always some things which are hard to explain.

i have been trying to get him to post here for a while. tbh dave its been reading your posts which has convinced him to post. i showed  him your blog and a few plo hands from pha and thats why he decided to post.

im sure he will post a lot more hands and will add a lot to the pha boards.

I think u just cost  yourself $1150 for playing that hands . Raising  pre and calling 3bets !  Once u saw the flopped , there's no way u folding .

Would the people folding pre open on the button? fwiw I fold pre too. The guy 3bet ds kings oop too, pretty dam frisky.

It's because he's playing Omaha Hi-Lo  . Not even wAnted to play that hand in normal PLO . It's got nothing to do win button .

But the most frequent time we will be able to make someone fold, which is where we make our profit, as LilD alluded to earlier, then the most common spot for that is raising the button. I've long been a believer in minning virtually atc/any four in tournaments, but this is a cash game and a touch different.

Think it might be a marginally profitable open on the BTN, as much as anything because you win the blinds a % of the time. But make no mistake about it, this is a total trash hand at 6 card PLO. Got to be folded in the CO. I'd sooner take 6 random cards out of the muck and open them blind than open this hand.

The guy who 3bet the trashy KKxxxx out of position when deep has made an even worse mistake though. Just suicidal to do that.

As played I disagree with Lil'Dave about the need to raise the flop. I don't mind flatting the flop planning to jam a blank turn. I realise this is a bit old school, but then 6 card PLO plays a bit old school! In these spots sometimes it makes sense thinking of top set no extras as a drawing hand - you are drawing to either a pair up or a blank on the turn.

Its PLO hi?

Interesting hand though, pretty much a bag of spanners pre flop

fucking stupid game!

thats where the skill comes in, so many people are dismissive of this game it carries a greater edge than most games.

Folding preflop is def the way it should play, i mean i would not raise for that hand first, and especially sb reraise, it is clearly folding here, i was on tilt, and when i m on tilt, i play a lot worse than that, thanks for advice everyone, my question is, how many players would fold on the flop (i wouldnt personally, even i m not on tilt, i am not saying folding is terrible), and what is the best play on the turn. Flat or raise, how many cards he can hit at the river, i think fold turn is not an option here, flat may be the best way to play it, since no matter what river come, he gonna pot it anyway. and we know he is on the big draw there when we got top set and all the pair.

I actually think playing bat insane aggro when we are 300bb deep against similar stacks is a really profitable strategy that people adjust dreadfully against in 6 card plo. They still think its correct to only 3b really small ranges and stack off incorrectly postflop because they are against "the maniac"- plus we can win so many pots postflop where our ranges run so much better on certain boards than the nits

Takes people way outside their comfort zone and they make massive mistakes because of it . Obv nothing to do with this hand

Agreed totally .

I also agree with Dave but in this situation I won't open the button to win $6 from the sb&bb . If its a must to open a button , are going to open if u are dealt to set of trips in ur hands pre and call a 3bet even though u in position?

Honeybadger and Dubai nutted it.

The guys making all the money in the 6 card PLO atm on FTP are AmexCeturion and another one who's name I forget - they play exactly like David Shallow says.

As for this hand, I'm usually flatting flop and getting it in on safe turn.

amex is appalling.


I was watching him play 1-2 up to 10-20, he seemed utterly terrible.


my mate grinds a bunch of the plo and plo6 atm and he was incredibly bad. he was just punting about not folding because he had 6 cards, 6 cards that work together yeh as if. rofl.

amex was just doing chunks and chunks getting it in bad over and over. it wasn't like there was strat or consistency it was proper lol 6 cards lets go.





as in I have one suggestion if he is truly really good, and that he was making a video where he got set exploitable tendencies and couldn't deviate. because he 100% 5b regardless of hand it was ridiculousto watch.

Really disagree with this. I have played huge amounts of this game. It is far less skilful than normal 4 card PLO. Your edge is greater vs bad players, but only because they are 'tricked' into thinking that so many crappy hands are playable both preflop and postflop. I personally don't like games in which we rely on our opponents being tricked... I prefer them to always have a punchers chance against me, like they do in 4 card PLO.

On a table of decent players this game would be a conspiracy of tightness. And anyone who tried to deviate from this 'to exploit' (a la Dubai's suggestion) would find themselves usually running into the one opponent who has the effective nuts. All very well saying "ooh look how nitty they are all playing! I can just bet like a nutcase and win loads without showdown cos they're all afraid to felt with less than the nuts with redraws"... but when so much of the deck is dealt out it is so likely that the nuts is out there.

Obviously if opponents are playing complete budget hands preflop but playing overly tight postflop then a maniacal strategy can be somewhat effective - provided pots are short handed. If opponents play total crap stuff preflop they will rarely flop nutted stuff and so can be run over if they are the type to wait for the nuts plus redraws postflop. But most players who play too loose preflop also play correspondingly loose postflop.

All this said, if this hand is representative of the sort of thing that is going on in the 6 card PLO games online then I might have to have a little dabble...

Disagree what you said about amex,greenstein, you may see he got huge stack on the table, but it doesnt mean he is winning, it is only cos he plays long session, he is a good player for sure, but not the biggest winner, there are many players better than him, like fishycall, a lot better than him. Amex maybe even losing in that game which i m not sure though, as far as i know, he is broke.

As an example of a situation in which Dubai's suggested adjustment can work...

I was recently playing in a DC game in which several players were calling Padooki with Kings wild. This is a crap game designed to trick newbies into stacking off with 7 and 8 Padookis, not realising that the wild card variable means that such hands are completely budget in most circumstances. However, every player in the game was savvy enough to know not to do this, and they were all playing very tight vs later street betting (hero folding 6 padookis and even one time a 5). Yet they were playing very loose predraw and on the first change, calling raises then drawing three to a wildcard or drawing two cards to two wheel cards hoping to catch a wildcard.

This combination of excessive looseness on an early street combined with extreme tightness on a later street is exploitable through aggressive, near-maniacal play. So a great adjustment to this texture of opponents would be to do a lot of raising predraw and then pat a lot of bluffs after the first or second draw and bet them through.

Same same with 6 card PLO. If players are 'correctly' nitty postflop, but are also playing a lot of hands preflop (i.e. stuff that is non-nutty), then you can exploit them like Dubai said by building pots on early streets then playing very aggro on later streets. Opponents are only playing to make the nuts postflop to continue but they are playing too many non-nutty starting hands, therefore they will do a LOT of folding.

The problem with this strategy at 6 card PLO is that if you are playing even remotely competent players they are simply not going to 'stick their head up' by calling raises/3bets with trash like QQ9872. Instead they are going to play robust hands that are nutty. Which means that a strategy of building pots with budget hands and then trying to make your opponents fold on later streets is going to be tough to make profitable. It only works against opponents who are too loose on early streets and then very tight on later streets.

In most general circumstances I'd agree with Greeky + Stu about flatting the flop, however I disagree with this hand specifically because of JUST how bad our hand is. "safe turns" are Q,9,9,2,2 (we block two of those outs) A/K/J/T/8 we will have to fold (and will get bluffed a decent %) 7/7/7/6/6/6/6/5/5/5/5 we stack off on but will VERY often have improved his hand (another 4-12 outs) and 3/3/3/3/4/4/4/4 are prolly the best - we have no BD flush draws of any value and having 3bet OOP we assume he has big suited cards so will have at least one strong BD FD.

Given how unplayable our hand really is from the flop I''d hate to just call here, I think folding is better. The advantage of jamming here is that we will get some small % of folds . However he's bet pot so chances of him folding are reduced but there's a chance he might be mashing buttons + he might be a weaker player and elect to stack off with a budget hand.

Throw in a BD NFD, some sort of wrap around the 9 or even just a few blockers to the Q9 wrap and I'm 100% calling. As it is though feels like its just binning money this time.

Amex has been around for yeaaarrrs and yeeaaaaaaarrs I remember playing him back in like 2008 on FTP every day, he is DEFO not terrible btw he's always had a really bizzarre style, like he used to hardly 3bet much, but cold 4bet/fold to 5bets with deep stacks an INSANE amount, and no-one even REALLY does that now let alone back then. The old c-bet flop and c/r turn thing was one of his favorite moves as well! How he plays these days IDK but he USED to win for sure and he is capable of putting you into a fair old bit of trouble.

R.E Playing style for 6card it really does depend on the calibre of competition, I'm in the belief that if you're against players who are just playing poor starting hands (remember at least 70% of the 6card combo's are utterly unplayable in any spot, yet I've seen many players play a VPIP of +30% ) then you wana be playing a wider range of hands against them, IP - if you're taking this strategy of playing quite loose (as I prefer to do in most live games that play like this) then I prefer to be veyr passive early in the hand, no 3betting, plenty of limping/calling behind etc, just trying to get to flops IP with slightly better hands than my opponents and pick the equity off post-flop. I don't really ever see the need to build huge pots pre-flop unless you have an incredibly sick hand.

If the game is tougher then you have no option but to play very tight, as bad starting hands against competent players is just a recipe for a total calamity.  I've played a lil bit on FTP 6card and people are way way way way too loose, and if I'm saying they are too loose (as stu will confirm as he tells me I'm too loose all the time lol) then it's almost for sure that they are lol

very nice comment, learns a lot from you, appreciate. you are abusolutely right about playing 6 cards that we should play very tight when the game is tougher.