blonde poker forum

Thought it might be interesting to have a thread to collate our moans and groans whether it be about the books, jockeys, trainers, clerk of the courses, weather.  draw bias whatever you want really. 

My pet hate right now is SkyBet, they take an eternity to settle bets.  Tilts me. 

Also commentators who claim the draw won't be as crucial when clearly you can see bias. 

Popped into a Hills shop yesterday at 7:30pm and they didn't have any early prices for the Romford card. Ridic.

I'm sick of hearing gamblers moaning.

My biggest pet hate is people who can get on with skybet!  I would happily wait a day for them to settle bets if they were willing to lay any.

Mines is a fairly new account, if I keep following the stuff you boys post I'll be in a similar boat soon.   Think they have made a mistake with the ladies weightlifting today, is that an account closer you think? 

I would imagine so!  My last account was closed with them for backing a 1/5 shot as a first ever bet on the account on the nba! 

Another one for the list bookies who wont take a bet because you so some signs of being a better judge than them. 

Some people just say meh, but I think they should have their licenses taken off them. 

so that's every bookmaker with a GC licence then?

its not as simple as you suggest.

Just ping Cute :D

Should be though, they should be allowed to set a limit on bets they take but to reduce Mr X to 1% and allow Mr Y who's a mug and knows know better to bet 100% is wrong imo.

The new legislation in New South Wales will be interesting thats coming in

All "major" layers will have to lay upto 2000 dollars per horse per race to anyone.

On the face of it superb news, in reality if it happened over here (unlikely) the days of near 100% books especially for the bigger races would be gone.

Isn't that the same as saying you have to sit in a high stakes cash came with a load of top class players?

No.  The thing about poker is the player knows the levels before they sit down.  Imagine you comfortably beat £1/2 at DTD and Rob says to you you need to play £2/5 now.  Or the flip side imagine you were killing the £5/10 game and were told you had to move down to 50p/£1.  They set the books, some of them badly, some just copy others and some actually do a good job but they shouldn't be able to say they take bets on the outcome of events if they only allow certain punters the luxuary of betting. 

You're both comparing apples with oranges.

If you ran an all you can eat buffet and a load of very hungry people moved in down the road, why wouldn't you be within your right to say "we will happily serve from the menu, but you're eating us out of house and home on the buffet"?

My issue is when people who only want to bet fivers and tenners get restricted.

but the days of getting a bet on would be here and firms would have to pay 6 figures salaries to replace their 'loltraders' which would mean half the people who beat them would get their wages from them properly rather than the tax free method when they are forced to employ people on real money to do a real job.  When they went top price an event they would actually want to lay it for the old fashioned reasons of going top price not because the marketing suits enforced them to.

Conversely i have no problem with bookmakers carrying on as they are but the GC forces them on all adverts (similar to drinks and Cig ads) something along the lines of 'Before you invest with us you must be aware if you have any idea what you are doing and might only lose up to 5% of your turnover with us, or heaven above actually have the audacity to actually make money from us, that will not be enough and we will refuse to take any bets from you and close your account.  These decisions will sometimes be made within 1 hour or 1 bet of your account being opened.  This might even happen if you actually lose to us even though that sounds incredible it's actually true.'

I have 13 unrestricted accounts but can confirm me and 5 mates were politely asked not to return to our local all you can eat deep pan pizza place. So in sense restricted. Apparently an average of 16 slices and a a bowl of salad each is taking the piss

Brilliant!

Noobs playing the last box on black jack and busting the table

People that don't understand randomness and berate the fella in the last box on a blackjack table "for taking a card the dealer would have got".  Sit in the last box yourself if you think there is something different that fella should do on behalf of the rest of the table, but frankly the whole last box thing makes me tear my hair out and say surely you get randomness.  Take a deck of cards, remove card A and card B.  Card A is just as likely to be a ten as card B ffs. 

Berating the fella in the last blackjack box is after timing at it's finest.

After the event surely the randomness is gone? You know exactly which card it would have been! I think people berate the last box as most aren't sharp enough to count through if seat 1 does something non standard, so the last box always gets it tight as it's more noticeable! FWIW I prefer the end box. Cannot claim not to get annoyed when someone hits on 15 when the dealers showing a 6 or something and it kills me! I also easily forget how many times someone's bad play ultra rewards me :) blackjack is a team game so I kept getting told by texans in Vegas....

is.........CORRECT.

One of THE most frustrating pieces of folk-lore ever.

At least we now know why Doobs is a tad thin on top. 

And with the 16 slices of pizza, how about they restrict but within reason? There is middle ground. Getting max £1.45 on a horse at Ascot or a golfer in The Open with PP or Sky is not middle ground. In Australia it's not unlimited bets for all punters, but given limits.

I think an 8 to 10 pizza slice restriction is fair, but then they shouldn't be allowed to call it 'an all you can eat' promo unless it says very clearly underneath (max 8 slices per person).

A friend of mine was barred from an all you can eat Chinese buffet. Asked for an explanation, the owner replied, "You velly gleedy".

There is a 6 card deck in front of you, which card is more likely to be a 10, the top one or the one below?  The answer is they are equally likely right now.  If the player at the end takes a card or not, the answer does not change.  The end player makes no difference at all to this probability.  Hence whatever "bad plays" he makes will make no difference to you in the long run.   Sometimes you will gain, sometimes you will lose because of this.  Focusing on what actually happened in one hand and aftertiming decisions based on that is obviously a terrible trait in a poker player.  Getting irritated by randomness at all is bad too... as is sitting at blackjack tables...

I'm thinking of adding a few to the no to staking list here. 

On the odd occasion i play bjack for entertainment if there is someone like this at the table i just snap leave and stop playing.  You know you are going to iron out 0.7% of your turnover if you play perfect strategy so when you are paying for a bit of entertainment when a clueless aftertimer like this is on the table i don't find it fun and just leave.   If these types actually spent less time worrying about the end box and actually knew how to play perfect strat blackjack they would lose slower and get more bang for their buck.  I don't think i have ever seen an aftertimer like these described who didn't have massive 'leaks' in his blackjack game.

You may have noticed the slight tinge of sarcasm in the "easily forget how many times people's bad play ultra rewards me" I 100% get your point, just the concept of randomness goes out the window after 20 piña coladas

What does after timing mean?

Im guessing its similar to results bias?

I never noticed the end comment, when I sent my previous reply, which was basically I can't be bothered debating but having noticed this now, I think I shall.

Now, first and foremost surely to get annoyed by things that annoy others must be by a pretty daft thing?  You have an analytical brain, does everyone have an analytical brain? do these concepts come easy to everyone?  Does that make you a better person than me?  I mean how shitty would the world be if everyone thought the same.  Should I get annoyed on a football pitch by those with less ability than me, because their brain and limbs do not coordinate as well as mine?  (nb likely to be the analytical thinkers...stereotypes FTW) Should an artist get annoyed by those less creative than them?  who do not understand how colours contrast?

Secondly, if it wasn't for us LOL punters, the maths gurus amongst us would have to make there living playing with spreadsheets and not arbing offers designed for people to enjoy horse races.  The industry requires us irrational compulsive types who throw our completely random thought process out there, or it would lose and die along with horse racing, greyhound racing and a lot of other things people take huge enjoyment in.

Thirdly, what right do you have to take ownership of my thoughts and opinions cause you once staked $60 on me, for which I returned 35% ROI?  That end comment is beyond douche, this is a forum, what possible point is there in me posting if I have to worry if every comment is going to mean I can't get a bit of staking when I need it?  By all means think it, but don't say it, just classless and petty.  I put up +ve staking packages on here (bar my LOL live attempts) sometimes offering my micro action at spot when I have a decent ROI over a large sample.  Why do I do that?  I enjoy community sweats and I like the thought of making people money

Fourthly, does every decision need to assume a infinite sample?  If I play blackjack once in a blue moon and crack £200 on the table from a usual stake of £10 and I am sitting on 20, dealer has 6, the end box takes a card on 15, catches a 10, and the dealer goes 10 and then 6?  I mean course I am going to be annoyed?  is that not just human nature nb do I berate said player? No, I am not confrontational like that (this message aside), but yeah I sit there thinking FFS

Fiffthly (not sue how to spell that, I don't think too good clearly) you have a maths thread and a top punting thread, this is a what things annoy you thread, so in my view not the place for rationale thought?  This is a poker forum 50% plus of us are likely LOL punters, let us LOL about if we want to, educate us on the punting threads FFS, if I cannot share my irrational views on a things that annoy me thread then where the fuck can I put them?

Sorry....I literally never get annoyed that much, but I sat stewing for 30 minutes and I don't need to be bummed out on my Sunday

It will never happen here.  Our racing authorities are not strong enough or interested enough in betting and when they do show interest it tends to be in the layers favour rather than the consumers.  It has become beyond a joke really.  Yesterday I lost two brand new accounts both before a single bet had settled and with only 900 quid bet over 13 bets on the two accounts.  

The above was about the NSW racing authority....I somehow missed an entire page of comments that took the thread ona  different track.....

When I saw the new post I was excited to see your views on the last box. Sadly you failed to deliver.

I'm not going to stake you now.

It's not beyond douche, it was only meant as tongue in cheek.  I am not going to stop staking because someone has a roulette habit.  Apologies if it wasn't clear. I kind of hate having to put smileys to convey meanings even if I sometimes succumb. 

We are all irrational at times. 

I've seen you guys say this sort of stuff before. Explain to me what is happening here.
You've placed a number of smallish sized bets over 2 accounts and somehow it raised a flag. How? What is happening?
Were they all sharp bets that went off shorter than the price you took? Was there someway the accounts could be linked to already banned accounts?
If they are all sharp bets, could you not dilute them with a lot more neutral EV bets to disguise the other ones?

Random punters in the bookies who are going mental when they have 10bob winner and your getting done for chunks.  I'd like everyone to win but when a dog who 2/38 there is a reason why its 9/1 you prob should avoid backing it.

Grown men wearing multi coloured Loom band bracelets while playing live poker, ok the kids made them, it's cute, but put them in your pocket, they are not cool and certainly are not lucky.

Queue all the men removing said loom bands.

I'm going to make sure my niece makes me one before I play live again :)

Are you blocking/amending your IP mate? Worth a look if not as, so the grapevine has it, accounts with some firms are restricted by IP matching.

Not only your IP address but you also need to protect your computer with something like Sandboxie which I can thoroughly recommend.

I am moving house pretty soon not very far but I was planning in opening all new accounts at new address as will have new bank account etc should I be careful with this or just avoid doing it? 

What is sandboxie btw?

My grand kids make them. They think it's cool if I wear them.

You think it's not cool.

No contest really.   :)

My 7, 5 and 3 year olds make them, they think it's cool.

They also think Adventure Time and Dick and Dom are cool,  I don't.

I think poker is cool, they don't.

See how this works.

Not really, but I've added a smiley to my previous post just in case.

 :)

Freds being derailed by old men and their kids and grandkids bloody marv.

BTW if my neice made me one I'd defo wear it.

Yeah - or at least I think I am.  I use a vpn and change it when I get new accounts.  I think I lost a Hills account last month by not doing this so have tried to be more careful and one of the accounts I lost yesterday was a Betfred account and I haven't bet with them for an absolute age in any name (outside of shops).  To be fair I have been given a run by some of the bigger firms so it might be just that these firms are pathetic....in fact I am pretty sure it is.

Sonour - what is Sandboxie?  Willing to try anything really......

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sandboxie


http://www.sandboxie.com/

Thank you Tikay. I was wondering how I was going to explain that.

If you log into your PP account on one computer then log out and change your IP address and log into a different PP account on the same computer PP will be able to see that these two accounts are linked by computer. This is because they put something on the computer. I'm not sure what it is, we call it a dot.

In the t &c's for opening account bonus' it usually says one bonus per address, IP address, computer,etc
Also if you have a limited account some bookies will limit otherlinked accounts.

Not all bookies do this.

So if you install Sandboxie, open your browser within the sandbox, login to your account, delete the sandbox, change your IP address, open your browser within the sandbox, login to the same bookie but as a different user, there is no link.

Thanks Lisa.  I have downloaded it.  The irony of all of this is that I don't want their bonuses, I don't mind not having best odds guaranteed, I don't even generally want a particularly big bet but, because I am forced to open multiple accounts I have costs to meet so I use all of the bonuses etc to pay the people that open the accounts for me.  On top of that the firms have to pay the processing fees both in and then, 12 bets later back out again.  It costs them more money than they need to and, at the end of the day, I am not going anywhere and have to keep doing it, its what I do for a living.  If any individual bookie said they would lay me either 100 win or 50 ew on anything I would happily stop opening new accounts etc with them.  It just seems such a futile waste of time, effort and money for both sides.

One other thing to consider is that you already have ' dots' on your computer. Are you able to return it to factory settings ?

It's terrible that this is what the game is reduced to, isn't it?

I truely find it incredible some of the stories Red has told me in the last few weeks regarding new account closures.  Virtually all of them involved the big 4 high street firms as well.  All of whom are billion pound businesses.  We are talking the sort of bets (price/size) on decent weekend big meeting rock solid handicap horse races where any punter in the world could go up to the ladbrokes and hills rep on course in the ring and strike these bets with them without any issue in the slightest.  Yet you do the same bets online and your account gets closed.

Do you think it may be that their secondary security checks unearth a link to the customer and then they close the accounts? This has happened to me before where I have tried being cute with stuff and I thought I am clear and then they get me after a couple of bets.

If they were closing any old account after bets as described they would be shutting everyone pretty much.

    Turning and turning in the widening gyre
    The falcon cannot hear the falconer;
    Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold
            The Second Coming - Yeats

Essentially the most macro reason for my departing the industry centred around the unsustainability (IMO) of the current model of the UK betting industry.

Over the previous 10-15yrs there has been, quite simply, a quantum shift in the industry's make up, in terms of the punters rather than the firms. Most of this subconscious.

Where historically one perhaps had a telephone bookmaker who you 'trusted' to quote you the nag's price, nowadays even the most uninformed are nigh on compelled to compare on price. Bookmaker after bookmaker attempts to step in front each of the other, throwing offers of which they do not understand the true cost, and tighter and tighter margins of which they do not truly understand the implications from a volatility perspective.

Margins fall, volatility increases. People hedge with neither rhyme nor reason, simply because one 'can' and because they (falsely, long term) believe the stress in their lives will reduce.

Essentially, the punter has never had it so good. Or so the industry would have you believe...

...but for one inconvenient truth - it is all too good to be true. Sharps can't bet, informed punters can't bet, even Billy Bunters can't bet. The industry has slit it's throat as each player has endeavoured to beat the others to the front of the queue.

I just find it incredible that even if they know its Stu that they even notice £50 bets coming in on major races on a busy saturday morning never mind close the account.  If they can't lay bets to take out £500/£1000 on the day's big handicaps at their early prices they really shouldn't have a licence and/or the lol traders really shouldn't be getting paid their £30k a year compiling salaries if their judgement with a 135% book edge in their favour is so poor.

Yeats went to Godolphin School, as it then was called.

Agreed.

In the fullness of time it will, or has caught up with them.

Any(almost any) business model in this age, has to produce some volume at much lower margins just to keep the doors open and it seem these companies are getting to the stage where they can't/won't do it.

I did as someone suggested on here and wrote to all the companies I have restrictions with(amazing I know!) to ask for enough to get just 5ers and tenners on, to help spread it about. Not one obliged. One was even a losing account but only restricted because of early price punting. Incred.

I could return it to factory settings but obviously I would rather not.....I checked for iesnare and found nothing but that doesn't mean it isn't there of course.


Its sad.  I regularly get thrown out these days by bookmakers that I once really looked up to when I was starting in the industry.  When I was just out of university I went along to an interview for Victor Chandler in Gibraltar and the interview went well and the guy interviewing me took me upstairs to meet Victor as I had impressed and he wanted a second opinion on me.  When I left the interview that day I was floating on cloud nine and thought to myself "I don't care if I don't get the job because I have met the great Victor Chandler the most fearless layer in the ring"  Now every account I have there is shut within about ten bets and Victor is buttering Maurice up daily.....Can't imagine the kids going for an interview with them now have the same impressions I once had and that seems sad to me.  The game needs big characters to look up to.  When I was growing up there seemed to be loads of bookies to look up to.  Victor, Stephen Little, John Banks and latterly Freddie Williams, Andy Smith etc and even the big firms took a bet.  I worked for Ladbrokes in Chinatown and Mayfair for 3 years when I was a student and I only recall them knocking back a bet once in that entire time.  I remember once a regular mug of ours had a grand on a horse a 7/1 and I just took it and then phoned it up because of who it was and the guy in trading said "you shouldn't have taken that bet before phoning, it is over trading principles and it is an industry gamble"  I said "I doubt xx is a part of the industry gamble is he?" and the trader just laughed and said "no I suppose not, its fine".  The horse went off at 5/2 and won doing cartwheels yet nothing more was ever said because everyone understood you have to let them win sometimes.  Now they would probably cut the punter (who did fortunes daily) to nothing and make him take SP.   If I had the money I would start up with the intention of a pinnacle style model where I would be happy to make 1% of a lot of money.  There has to be a market for it.

I think you have nailed it here Adz.  The problem is not that they don't want winning punters, they don't even want punters that lose 3-4% because it brings their margins down and increases their volatility so anyone that looks like they have even half a clue will get restricted.  They have made the mistake of thinking maximising margin is more important than maximising revenue.

I also think it's 100 times easier to knock punters back when you don't have to speak to them face to face and/or on the phone.  I would like to see a hills rep at a leading pitch at ascot knock stu back for £100 ew on an 8/1 shot in a standard non flith ew race.  It's easy doing it behind a screen would be a lot more embarrassing in person.

Reminds me when internet betting was still in it's infancy. 13/14 years ago I broke my leg playing football and was off work for months.

I had a laddies account and to pass the time as much as anything, was betting no more than 50p at a time. Income was much reduced so couldn't start punting it off!

Anyway at first max liability was £50k on horse and football bets. 4 months later the max liability was £250!!!

Wasn't even betting shrewdly or for value, just betting on everything....lol

Seamus.  Can we have like a room 101 for gambling and stick that ***** and his walking stick in here.

I just called Boyles up after seeing a few punters had gotten accounts unrestricted by doing this.

I explained that my account was probably breakeven at best, I only bet infrequently, and for tenners etc.

I hadn't tried to bet with you since you restricted me to 2p e/w on a 25/1 shot for one of the golf majors. I thought I would try a multiple just now, so went for a £5 Trixie on 3 horses that was rejected. I tried a £5 treble, and that was rejected too.

Trading decision etc.

Ok thanks for all your help, or rather, thanks for not being much good. I appreciate you lot on the phones have a book to read from, so is there any way I can speak with someone who makes the 'trading decisions'.

No, we don't have to explain anything.

I only want to know so my other accounts don't go.

Sorry, it's a trading decision, and that's all, we don't have to give reasons.


Thanked her for her time, and put the phone down :D



It irked me a bit, that she was a bit of a rude cow, so I decided to e-mail them for a laugh.



I just had a conversation, well, I wouldn't call it a conversation, as the customer service person I spoke to was very unhelpful, and blunt.

I have an account with yourselves, that I'm pretty sure is losing. Only a small amount, because I only bet in fivers, and tenners.

I tried putting a £5 treble on tomorrows racing at Goodwood, but your 'automatic risk controls' refused it.

I then remembered the last time I tried to play a bet with you on a golfer, and was offered 2 pence e/w at 25/1.

I asked if any of the traders could look at my account, so that I could throw a few bets on this week during Goodwood, and the woman I was speaking to didn't seem to be very customer friendly once I asked this.

Trading decision etc.

Could I have chat with one of them, so I could find out exactly why it happened. I only wanted to find out, so that I could ensure I get to keep my other accounts.

I don't expect any help in response, but I really do think it's pretty poor, when a recreational punter like myself, who should be your bread and butter, can't even get a fiver on 3 horses at one of the major meetings!




Interesting to see if anyone bothers replying...

Who did you e-mail mate?

try this e-mail address jboyle@boylesports.com

I just emailed the standard address, so wasn't holding out much hope.

I'll use that one if they don't get back to me by the weekend though, cheers.

This is what I got back :D


Many thanks for contacting Customer Support.

In line with your query, please note that the Trading Department has restricted your stakes and this decision is unlikely to be overturned. Our Trading Department assesses bet submissions in great detail and where they deem appropriate will restrict bet placement. They do not provide us with the exact details on the parameters they use to carry out these checks, so we cannot offer you any further explanation. This is an account setting determined by our Trading function and it is used in setting transactional parameters.

We are sorry to relay this news to you however on review of your details, it would appear very unlikely that any bet restriction will be lifted. Any restrictions in place are done so in line with our terms of use, whereby we reserve the right to refuse the whole or part of any bet submitted.

For your request to have a correspondence with our Trading Department, we are unable to assist in this because all communications with customers are handled by us at Customer Support and we will forward queries to the relevant department.

If there is anything else we can help you with, please do not hesitate to contact us. We will be more than happy to help you.



Life support...

Standard bullshit response that has been copy and pasted from their complaint handling guide.  Send your e-mail and a copy of what you have received to that e-mail address I posted.  Even if Mr Boyle himself doesn't anser it making chief exec complaints is generally the way to go, I have a track record in being a successful complainer ;-)

Boyles for me really are the worst firm. I know they are all as bad as each other but I really don't know anyone that has ever been given a run at Boyles at all.

It highlights what a joke it all is when they suggest you need to speak to the trader, but we won't ever actually put you through to a trader.

They obviously just don't even care, but I suspect this sort of stuff the Board are totally oblivious to and if you can go direct, its worth a try.

I'll fire it over to him later today, and see if he is aware they ban £10 punters that aren't even winning :D

I think the biggest winner I ever had on that account was a score on a 10/1 shot...

This is pretty much the same way all companies work in my industry, it is very seldom I speak to someone when I have declined their application for a mortgage.   Thats why you pay people to do the dirty work. 

Skybet eh?


Sam R: Hi, you're through to Sam R.

Graham Wheldon: hello

Graham Wheldon: I pinged the chat box yesterday at 9.30 and had this conversation



"Chloe H: Hi, you're through to Chloe H.

Graham Wheldon: Hi, I'm after a price on Peterborough to score 100+ goals in all competitions

Graham Wheldon: A friend of mine was offered 25-1. I have a copy of the email if you'd like me to copy and paste it?

Chloe H: Not a problem i can put this price to the trading dept am i ok to e-mail you the price?

Graham Wheldon: sure, how long will that take?

Graham Wheldon: you want me to copy and paste it?

Chloe H: Not long we are not too busy at the minute, give me half hour at the most

Chloe H: I will get back to you as soon as i hear anything

Graham Wheldon: ok thanks, will leave it till 10am and then get back to you"



Graham Wheldon: I pinged again about 11am and they said it can take up to 24hrs

Graham Wheldon: It's now been over 24hrs

Sam R: Can I take your User ID please?

Graham Wheldon: ****

Sam R: Can you please confirm your mothers maiden name and the name of your school?

Graham Wheldon: ****

Graham Wheldon: eton

Sam R: Just to confirm that you wanted a price for Peeterborough to score 100+ goals in all competions?

Graham Wheldon: yes

Sam R: I will just check if we have had a response from the traders.

Sam R: We have not had a response I am afraid. I will pass this to my supervisor again for you and we will respond to you via email.

Sam R: Apologie's for the delay.

Graham Wheldon: that's not really good enough

Graham Wheldon: Can you not contact traders by phone?

Sam R: I am afraid not it needs to be done via email. Due to the delay Im sure we can get a response fairly quickly.

Graham Wheldon: ok, how long should I leave it?

Sam R: So to reiterate the bet is Peterborough 100+ goals in all competitions for the coming season?

Sam R: Probably before 1pm.

Graham Wheldon: as per the original email and the earlier confirmation....YES!

lolz at school - eton!

"He was brought up at Eaton"

"He looks like he was eaten and brought up"

I paid my way through college by working as a casino dealer.  Often the afternoon shift would be a bunch of predominately female pensioners sat around a £3 blackjack table.  It was very obvious that none of them were actually trying to win, they were all trying desperately hard not to lose their £100 before they had to go at 6pm.  The thing is, I don't think any of them actually realised that subconciously, that was what they were doing.

I'd always try and make a little bit of conversation, and try and keep it to subjects that weren't inflammatory, particularly how to play blackjack at least remotely well :D  But occasionally, a little corker would pop up.

After paying the table out..."you didn't fancy doubling your 11 v my 6?" "No, I prefer to make my money last a bit longer."

But the best one that pretty much had me doubled over was watching every single box be misplayed horribly, whilst waiting for the outcome of the next exposed card to confirm to each other whether or not the decision was correct.  Against all 7 boxes, all backed and double-backed (to generate arguments between each hand as to who owns what,ofc) I think 2 hands busted, 2 hands declined a solid split, one hand declined a double where any sane person would bet 10x if permitted and the last box decided to "rectify" previous mistakes by hitting hard 17 to "get the cards back in order"  Cue me making an unlikely total.  The silence was finally broken by the 3-box who asked: "jeeeesus, who cut this crap?"

That was over 20 years ago, I hope the old dears are still kicking around and playing £3 blackjack somewhere - they seemed to enjoy it so much.

Apologies if it was mentioned elsewhere, but thought this was interesting:

Australia Minimum Bets (http://www.racingnsw.com.au/default.aspx?s=article-display&id=16086)

Basically bookies over there (the big ones anyway) have to accept bets to lose a minimum of $2k on the horses from next month.

(AndrewT Edit:- Fixed Jamie's link)

good article in the racing post today about it with ladbrokes moaning that they 'should be allowed to do business with whom they choose'