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Poker Forums => The Rail => Topic started by: Woodsey on October 26, 2014, 10:38:38 PM



Title: Best games for us fish to play to have a chance of winning in the long run?
Post by: Woodsey on October 26, 2014, 10:38:38 PM
Thought this would be a fun thread bearing in mind the other thread that is running, let's put all egos to one side and just be honest.

So for people like me who used to win and can't now unless they play very selectively, have a full time job and either can't be arsed or don't have time to study to get better. Where should we punt our money for best chance of winning?

For me it's the DTD Sats to the events they run, I can mostly get in cheap and doubt I would be a loser in the long run if I stick to those.

I think selective live cash games could also be profitable for many, unfortunately for me I want to sink plenty of ales when playing live so that rules it out for me mostly lol  :cheers: ;djinn;

So where do us fish get the most bang for our buck?


Title: Re: Best games for us fish to play to have a chance of winning in the long run?
Post by: Marky147 on October 26, 2014, 10:50:58 PM
Wherever you get most enjoyment?


Title: Re: Best games for us fish to play to have a chance of winning in the long run?
Post by: Woodsey on October 26, 2014, 10:53:51 PM
Also replying does not imply you are a fish  :D. So all answers welcome, don't be scared to input, 'winning' players options also welcome  ;whistle;

Disclaimer- Yes I'm a fish in most games and admit it, honestly is the best medicine  ;danafish;


Title: Re: Best games for us fish to play to have a chance of winning in the long run?
Post by: Woodsey on October 26, 2014, 10:54:44 PM
Wherever you get most enjoyment?

True, but also best chance of winning or at least losing the min.


Title: Re: Best games for us fish to play to have a chance of winning in the long run?
Post by: Marky147 on October 26, 2014, 10:59:52 PM
Wherever you get most enjoyment?

True, but also best chance of winning or at least losing the min.

You know the games you're best at, so play those, and on the site you like most.



Title: Re: Best games for us fish to play to have a chance of winning in the long run?
Post by: Woodsey on October 26, 2014, 11:08:58 PM
Wherever you get most enjoyment?

True, but also best chance of winning or at least losing the min.

You know the games you're best at, so play those, and on the site you like most.


Disagree mate, I don't think many of us play enough to really know for a long period of time.

I've identified where I think I'm still +EV (DTD sats), just wondering what others think.

In all honestly I just don't get the same buzz from poker as I did many years back, I've been playing far too long. The only buzz I get these days is the chance of a big score and I simply can't afford the full buy ins for those events regularly, and I would deffo be -EV if I could.

Like I said, just wondering what others have identified...  :)


Title: Re: Best games for us fish to play to have a chance of winning in the long run?
Post by: Rexas on October 26, 2014, 11:17:50 PM
As I think Alex mentioned in another thread, if you're looking for a variant of the game where you can be +ev without putting in a load of work, then poker is certainly not where you should be looking. Think most just play mtts for the chance at that big score. Win one decent comp on stars and don't snap move up to the really expensive comps and "losing" players can be winning over a significant sample. If you play the game for fun, then play whatever you like, the edge in poker is nowhere near as big as its being made out to be, you won't instantly lose all your money when you sit down at a table with a better player. It will be a slow process, with many ups and downs along the way, and you will naturally improve (well, hopefully) as you play more, thus slowing the process even more.


Title: Re: Best games for us fish to play to have a chance of winning in the long run?
Post by: Rexas on October 26, 2014, 11:22:33 PM
It's also worth pointing out that in most forms of the game, the really good regs are going to move up the stakes pretty quickly. So, perhaps if someone is doing loads at 100nl online, they could drop down to 50nl, which seems to play quite differently and the pool of regs will be worse. I'm definitely nowhere near the best player around yet, but I'd be very confident that I could teach anyone with half a brain to beat up on the 10nl regs (although they are likely to be way better than the average casino-going reg).


Title: Re: Best games for us fish to play to have a chance of winning in the long run?
Post by: Marky147 on October 26, 2014, 11:24:22 PM
Wherever you get most enjoyment?

True, but also best chance of winning or at least losing the min.

You know the games you're best at, so play those, and on the site you like most.


Disagree mate, I don't think many of us play enough to really know for a long period of time.

I've identified where I think I'm still +EV (DTD sats), just wondering what others think.

In all honestly I just don't get the same buzz from poker as I did many years back, I've been playing far too long. The only buzz I get these days is the chance of a big score and I simply can't afford the full buy ins for those events regularly, and I would deffo be -EV if I could.

Like I said, just wondering what others have identified...  :)


Well, unless you've been on a 6max cash course since Ladbrokes days, I'd guess your best game, and most enjoyable game, would be MTTs.

If you want to shoot for a big score, but not pay out,. play on Stars, and get stuck into some 30k runner fields...

I've identified that I was a twat, for only playing as much as I needed to fund my lifestyle back when everyone smart was printing :(



Title: Re: Best games for us fish to play to have a chance of winning in the long run?
Post by: redarmi on October 26, 2014, 11:27:07 PM
The DTD sats are definitely value but that is only really because the buyins are too low for most pros (talking the pennyrolls and the feeders) and DTD add value.  If DTD stopped adding seats they wouldn't be value in all probability.  Out of interest do you think that you don't enjoy the game anymore because of the realisation you aren't a winner anymore or is it just boredom?  If it is something that you enjoy doing does it really matter if you are a winner or not?  FWIW I realised a long time ago that I am not a winner above a certain fairly low level so I just stick to that.  Playing any kind of MTT online above , say, a $20 buyin is always going to be too tough for me so I just don't play them anymore.


Title: Re: Best games for us fish to play to have a chance of winning in the long run?
Post by: Woodsey on October 26, 2014, 11:29:09 PM
Wherever you get most enjoyment?

True, but also best chance of winning or at least losing the min.

You know the games you're best at, so play those, and on the site you like most.


Disagree mate, I don't think many of us play enough to really know for a long period of time.

I've identified where I think I'm still +EV (DTD sats), just wondering what others think.

In all honestly I just don't get the same buzz from poker as I did many years back, I've been playing far too long. The only buzz I get these days is the chance of a big score and I simply can't afford the full buy ins for those events regularly, and I would deffo be -EV if I could.

Like I said, just wondering what others have identified...  :)


Well, unless you've been on a 6max cash course since Ladbrokes days, I'd guess your best game, and most enjoyable game, would be MTTs.

If you want to shoot for a big score, but not pay out,. play on Stars, and get stuck into some 30k runner fields...

I've identified that I was a twat, for only playing as much as I needed to fund my lifestyle back when everyone smart was printing :(



Deffo MTT's, but these days where I can get in on the cheap.

Used to do really well at live cash games, but not in the last 3 or 4 years so rarely bother now tbh.


Title: Re: Best games for us fish to play to have a chance of winning in the long run?
Post by: Rexas on October 26, 2014, 11:31:06 PM
Furthermore (sorry for posting like this, I'm kinda writing as I think) it's not impossible to learn to become a winning player. If I go back to January this year, I was a losing player at every poker variant online. I was also a losing player in some of the live cash games I was playing. I was effectively stopping myself from learning by A) kidding myself that it was just a downswing and B) believing that this stuff was way too complicated for anyone normal (ok, slightly retarded) (ok, more than slighty) (ok, I'm eating my shoulder atm, stfu) to start learning. Over the last 6 months, I've gone from being a loser at 10nl to being a definite winner at 50nl without spending 10 hours a day looking through obscure maths problems. A lot of the time when I see these sorts of threads, and players who used to be winners but now just can't hack it, this quote comes to my mind:

“Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness that most frightens us."


Title: Re: Best games for us fish to play to have a chance of winning in the long run?
Post by: Woodsey on October 26, 2014, 11:34:54 PM
The DTD sats are definitely value but that is only really because the buyins are too low for most pros (talking the pennyrolls and the feeders) and DTD add value.  If DTD stopped adding seats they wouldn't be value in all probability.  Out of interest do you think that you don't enjoy the game anymore because of the realisation you aren't a winner anymore or is it just boredom?  If it is something that you enjoy doing does it really matter if you are a winner or not?  FWIW I realised a long time ago that I am not a winner above a certain fairly low level so I just stick to that.  Playing any kind of MTT online above , say, a $20 buyin is always going to be too tough for me so I just don't play them anymore.

Good question about the enjoyability mate, probably a bit of both to be honest. When I first started i effing loved the game even when I was losing, I remember buying into £500 comps at Blackpool even though I didn't really know what I was doing lol. I obviously improved a lot in the subsequent years.

Now I simply don't have the desire to improve, and would choose giving up totally over doing a lot of cash.


Title: Re: Best games for us fish to play to have a chance of winning in the long run?
Post by: Kmac84 on October 27, 2014, 12:41:07 AM
Sky Poker and Betfair only tables are quite soft.  I only pay cash though.  I am sure not all players are bad but in those games I feel comfortable.  I mostly play .50/1 and £1/2 when I can be bothered which tbh isn't that often these days. 


Title: Re: Best games for us fish to play to have a chance of winning in the long run?
Post by: baldock92 on October 27, 2014, 12:41:49 AM
Furthermore (sorry for posting like this, I'm kinda writing as I think) it's not impossible to learn to become a winning player. If I go back to January this year, I was a losing player at every poker variant online. I was also a losing player in some of the live cash games I was playing. I was effectively stopping myself from learning by A) kidding myself that it was just a downswing and B) believing that this stuff was way too complicated for anyone normal (ok, slightly retarded) (ok, more than slighty) (ok, I'm eating my shoulder atm, stfu) to start learning. Over the last 6 months, I've gone from being a loser at 10nl to being a definite winner at 50nl without spending 10 hours a day looking through obscure maths problems. A lot of the time when I see these sorts of threads, and players who used to be winners but now just can't hack it, this quote comes to my mind:

“Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness that most frightens us."

What do you think are the biggest things you've changed since january to go from "a loser at 10nl to being a definite winner at 50nl"? I never really play online but would like to start, so any advice would be welcome!


Title: Re: Best games for us fish to play to have a chance of winning in the long run?
Post by: scotty77 on October 27, 2014, 12:43:48 AM
Smaller field MTTs is prob the way to go.

Quite often the smaller fields are seen as 'bowl' comps by the best pros so they either avoid them or when they are having a bad session they mess around in them to let off the steam.  You'll also find many of the same recreational players in the same games day in day out.

Cash games as low as 10/20nl are pretty reg heavy on all networks nowadays.  Obviously always exceptions.  Does help if you do your homework in the lobby and find out who's a reg or not.

SnGs prob the most reg heavy on stars I'd guess, certainly on smaller networks tho you are still gonna find a lot of main recreational player games although the odd reg 24 tabling across multi sites and timing out will make the games a pain sometimes.

Still no reason why a recreational player with solid fundamentals can't still hold their own, but much like a pro, it is gonna be about game selection.  You can't just load up any random 100nl table on any site and expect to be at a fairly level playing field now.

And of course any huge field low BI Turbo MTT on stars is often gonna be decent value.  It's rare that you'll see many 'good' players in the last 20 or so of the Storm/Big11.







Title: Re: Best games for us fish to play to have a chance of winning in the long run?
Post by: dreenie on October 27, 2014, 01:27:24 AM
Blackjack.

Only if you know that splitting two 7's when dealer shows a 6 is +ev and winning play in the 'long term'.


Title: Re: Best games for us fish to play to have a chance of winning in the long run?
Post by: muckthenuts on October 27, 2014, 01:29:33 AM
It's got to be tournaments for the recreational player. Online cash feels pretty much out of the question with the rake/regginess/general zzzzzz factor of small stakes over the long term.


Title: Re: Best games for us fish to play to have a chance of winning in the long run?
Post by: Rexas on October 27, 2014, 02:03:11 AM
Furthermore (sorry for posting like this, I'm kinda writing as I think) it's not impossible to learn to become a winning player. If I go back to January this year, I was a losing player at every poker variant online. I was also a losing player in some of the live cash games I was playing. I was effectively stopping myself from learning by A) kidding myself that it was just a downswing and B) believing that this stuff was way too complicated for anyone normal (ok, slightly retarded) (ok, more than slighty) (ok, I'm eating my shoulder atm, stfu) to start learning. Over the last 6 months, I've gone from being a loser at 10nl to being a definite winner at 50nl without spending 10 hours a day looking through obscure maths problems. A lot of the time when I see these sorts of threads, and players who used to be winners but now just can't hack it, this quote comes to my mind:

“Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness that most frightens us."

What do you think are the biggest things you've changed since january to go from "a loser at 10nl to being a definite winner at 50nl"? I never really play online but would like to start, so any advice would be welcome!

A couple of things really, but I guess it comes down to accepting that I wasn't as good as I thought I was, and then looking at the decisions I've made as objectively as possible. Don't really put hands down to coolers any more, and I try to post any hands I'm not sure about.

From an enjoyment perspective, I've got a bit of a schedule. I enforce a break after every hour, and I enforce at least one day of absolutely 0 poker a week. I also try and have something that I'm trying to improve each week, which is great because you can go back and actually watch yourself improve week on week. So this week, for example, I've been looking more closely at my play from the big blind, and I've been making decisions from that seat that are much better than those I was making last week, and it feels pretty cool to see that improvement.


Title: Re: Best games for us fish to play to have a chance of winning in the long run?
Post by: pleno1 on October 27, 2014, 04:18:40 AM
thing is in mtts all the money is at the end game and even if its a small bi field, the cream still usually rises and you get regs who will be there and will be very good on the final.

some of the biggest mistakes an amateur can make is on a final table.


Title: Re: Best games for us fish to play to have a chance of winning in the long run?
Post by: david3103 on October 27, 2014, 07:54:11 AM
thing is in mtts all the money is at the end game and even if its a small bi field, the cream still usually rises and you get regs who will be there and will be very good on the final.

some of the biggest mistakes an amateur can make is on a final table.

I'm guessing you mean ICM, but

(http://www.laughbombs.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/2361855-6442745602-wpid-m.jpeg)


Title: Re: Best games for us fish to play to have a chance of winning in the long run?
Post by: rfgqqabc on October 27, 2014, 07:40:22 PM
I think small stake mtts away from stars are an absolute goldmine with probably an above minwage hourly about. I played a morning session across all the sites and the 11am games on 888 were just incredible. There are still plenty of sites/times/tournies about if you forget wanting to win 50+ buyins for first. Playing peak times in the evening might make things harder but I'm sure 888/Sky/iPoker/Microgaming all have a decent enough selection of 26$ freezeouts and the like. Final table poker is the most fun, and you can become a small stakes pads winning in every session.


Title: Re: Best games for us fish to play to have a chance of winning in the long run?
Post by: SuuPRlim on October 27, 2014, 11:10:02 PM
everyone missing the point here imo.

I think deciding where to play there should be a load more important factors to consider before where the softest stnd of play is, whether or not you're going to make a big ICM mistake is, or if there will be a gaggle of Pro players hunting you for your money.

The best thing about being a recreational player is that you can play poker without a legitimate expectation of profit, and because of this you can base decisions about where to play on much more pleasant criteria than pro players; playing DTD tonight cos that fit valet is working, going to play some 50p£1 and get smashed with my pal, going to play Gala tonight cos it's a 10minute walk and I can have a drink etc.

Spending too much time deliberating about the "value" of certains games just seems like a drain on the enjoyment of playing recreational poker to me. I've spoken to with loads of guys over the years and heard lots of different explanations for there motivation to play poker, from "gets me away from the wife one night a week" - "I just like trying to break some pro's soul" - "I really like playing" (simple I know!!)

Basically if you wanna win at poker then you have to play in games with weaker players than you, as B+W as that sounds, and if you've ever run a variance simulation (not something I'd advise as it's quite confusing and probably the dullest thing that it's possible to do lol) but you'd see that if you play poker sporadically over a year then the difference between a -10% and +10% ROI is irrelevant. I would focus my energy on where you want to play, where is most fun to play, what satisfies you most - fast action, low exposure, rowdy table banter, chance to win big money etc and playing well within your means instead of trying to find game that you feel are +EV, when they might still not be, and even if they are you'll never really be able to beat the variance, and if you're going to be at the mercy of variance then you need to get lucky anyways, may as well go to where you like playing, play with people you like playing against in games you want to play and just accept you need to be slightly luckier than you would be playing elsewhere!


Title: Re: Best games for us fish to play to have a chance of winning in the long run?
Post by: AlexMartin on October 27, 2014, 11:11:54 PM
live mtt's surely, especially DTD sats given the value they still offer. Loads of good stuff in the 50-500 bracket that you can still have a few jars in and do well.


Title: Re: Best games for us fish to play to have a chance of winning in the long run?
Post by: pleno1 on October 27, 2014, 11:16:12 PM
why the hell were you grinding 888 bowl tournaments at 11am after a sunday?!


Title: Re: Best games for us fish to play to have a chance of winning in the long run?
Post by: arbboy on October 27, 2014, 11:18:35 PM
why the hell were you grinding 888 bowl tournaments at 11am after a sunday?!

The same reason Ladbrokes shops open at 10am on the Monday after the world cup final is finished to offer bowl virtual dog racing and roulette pleasure to their clients.


Title: Re: Best games for us fish to play to have a chance of winning in the long run?
Post by: cambridgealex on October 27, 2014, 11:20:48 PM
Great post Dave, agree 100%.

Btw, even as a "pro" when I was trying to get to know a certain someone I would often play at DTD if I knew she was working, or go to Gala if I knew she was going there on her day off :D So it's not just recs who think like this!


Title: Re: Best games for us fish to play to have a chance of winning in the long run?
Post by: Marky147 on October 27, 2014, 11:26:52 PM
Told ya Woodsey ;)



Title: Re: Best games for us fish to play to have a chance of winning in the long run?
Post by: Woodsey on October 27, 2014, 11:39:21 PM
Told ya Woodsey ;)

lol I don't think I've ever been to a casino or to play poker to chase birds  :D


Title: Re: Best games for us fish to play to have a chance of winning in the long run?
Post by: SuuPRlim on October 27, 2014, 11:44:10 PM
Great post Dave, agree 100%.

Btw, even as a "pro" when I was trying to get to know a certain someone I would often play at DTD if I knew she was working, or go to Gala if I knew she was going there on her day off :D So it's not just recs who think like this!

haha yeh.

Same with everything, I had a badminton game on Sunday but decided I was going to get hammered on Saturday night, because I'm pretty bad at badminton and the only reason I play is cos it's a laugh and I get to run around for 90minutes I'm not gonna let the fact i had a match next day stop me going out having fun. Obviously if i was a pro/serious badminton player I would have had a lime+soda or two at dinner and wished everyone a jolly night as I headed to bed at 10pm.


Title: Re: Best games for us fish to play to have a chance of winning in the long run?
Post by: Pawprint on October 28, 2014, 12:02:51 AM
everyone missing the point here imo.

I think deciding where to play there should be a load more important factors to consider before where the softest stnd of play is, whether or not you're going to make a big ICM mistake is, or if there will be a gaggle of Pro players hunting you for your money.

The best thing about being a recreational player is that you can play poker without a legitimate expectation of profit, and because of this you can base decisions about where to play on much more pleasant criteria than pro players; playing DTD tonight cos that fit valet is working, going to play some 50p£1 and get smashed with my pal, going to play Gala tonight cos it's a 10minute walk and I can have a drink etc.

Spending too much time deliberating about the "value" of certains games just seems like a drain on the enjoyment of playing recreational poker to me. I've spoken to with loads of guys over the years and heard lots of different explanations for there motivation to play poker, from "gets me away from the wife one night a week" - "I just like trying to break some pro's soul" - "I really like playing" (simple I know!!)

Basically if you wanna win at poker then you have to play in games with weaker players than you, as B+W as that sounds, and if you've ever run a variance simulation (not something I'd advise as it's quite confusing and probably the dullest thing that it's possible to do lol) but you'd see that if you play poker sporadically over a year then the difference between a -10% and +10% ROI is irrelevant. I would focus my energy on where you want to play, where is most fun to play, what satisfies you most - fast action, low exposure, rowdy table banter, chance to win big money etc and playing well within your means instead of trying to find game that you feel are +EV, when they might still not be, and even if they are you'll never really be able to beat the variance, and if you're going to be at the mercy of variance then you need to get lucky anyways, may as well go to where you like playing, play with people you like playing against in games you want to play and just accept you need to be slightly luckier than you would be playing elsewhere!

This post deserves a signed Chris Moorman book :)

Absolutely spot on.  I think too many recreational poker players get caught up in making +EV game selection decisions (because they've read it on a forum somewhere) and forgets the reasons why they are choosing to spend their hard earned cash and valuable spare time playing poker.


Title: Re: Best games for us fish to play to have a chance of winning in the long run?
Post by: Marky147 on October 28, 2014, 12:03:36 AM
Told ya Woodsey ;)

lol I don't think I've ever been to a casino or to play poker to chase birds  :D

Haha, I meant my first post...


Title: Re: Best games for us fish to play to have a chance of winning in the long run?
Post by: Woodsey on October 28, 2014, 12:17:34 AM
everyone missing the point here imo.

I think deciding where to play there should be a load more important factors to consider before where the softest stnd of play is, whether or not you're going to make a big ICM mistake is, or if there will be a gaggle of Pro players hunting you for your money.

The best thing about being a recreational player is that you can play poker without a legitimate expectation of profit, and because of this you can base decisions about where to play on much more pleasant criteria than pro players; playing DTD tonight cos that fit valet is working, going to play some 50p£1 and get smashed with my pal, going to play Gala tonight cos it's a 10minute walk and I can have a drink etc.

Spending too much time deliberating about the "value" of certains games just seems like a drain on the enjoyment of playing recreational poker to me. I've spoken to with loads of guys over the years and heard lots of different explanations for there motivation to play poker, from "gets me away from the wife one night a week" - "I just like trying to break some pro's soul" - "I really like playing" (simple I know!!)

Basically if you wanna win at poker then you have to play in games with weaker players than you, as B+W as that sounds, and if you've ever run a variance simulation (not something I'd advise as it's quite confusing and probably the dullest thing that it's possible to do lol) but you'd see that if you play poker sporadically over a year then the difference between a -10% and +10% ROI is irrelevant. I would focus my energy on where you want to play, where is most fun to play, what satisfies you most - fast action, low exposure, rowdy table banter, chance to win big money etc and playing well within your means instead of trying to find game that you feel are +EV, when they might still not be, and even if they are you'll never really be able to beat the variance, and if you're going to be at the mercy of variance then you need to get lucky anyways, may as well go to where you like playing, play with people you like playing against in games you want to play and just accept you need to be slightly luckier than you would be playing elsewhere!

I take your point. But if I knew I was going to lose playing game xyz I probably just wouldn't play. I'd probably just play casino games instead so I could get instant gratification via regular sweats rather than waiting around bored to get a few playable hands, and being able to neck down a few pints knowing it wasn't going to affect the outcome.


Title: Re: Best games for us fish to play to have a chance of winning in the long run?
Post by: Marky147 on October 28, 2014, 12:52:43 AM
And I thought my old dear was hard work!


Title: Re: Best games for us fish to play to have a chance of winning in the long run?
Post by: SuuPRlim on October 28, 2014, 07:00:08 AM
That's fair enough, though to know where you're winning or losing though tbh, there are still forms of poker I wasent certain I had any edge in after a pretty large sample.

I think you're probably never going to see this long run and by the time you do and figure out if it's winning or not then it'll be too late. Sounds

Sounds to me like you just want action? Short stack in aggro live cash games with the right players sounds like the best thing to me. Quit when you like, have a few (+) jars, and it'll be pretty high variance so if your a slight dog in the game then it's not really an issue, this is actually a spot where you want a couple of decent pros in the game cos they are the ones most likely to give you slightly faster action!


Title: Re: Best games for us fish to play to have a chance of winning in the long run?
Post by: AlunB on October 28, 2014, 12:03:23 PM
Woodsey is absolutely spot on. There is this nonsense idea peddled by online gambling executives that everyone is happy to lose money hand over fist because they are being 'entertained' by the gambling.

I'm sure some people are, but an awful lot of people in poker need to be able to at least suspend disbelief and give themselves what they think is a fair chance to win. It's the same in sports betting. For example, oh I dunno, some random poker player punting on the darts with no positive expectation whatsoever thinking they are just getting unlucky :)


Title: Re: Best games for us fish to play to have a chance of winning in the long run?
Post by: AlunB on October 28, 2014, 12:05:21 PM
IMO

If every 'rec' knew, really deep down knew, they were never going to win in the long term the vast vast majority would never play again unless it was with their mates or in the occasional tournament for a chance at a bink.

Funnily enough that's almost exactly what I do now...


Title: Re: Best games for us fish to play to have a chance of winning in the long run?
Post by: AlunB on October 28, 2014, 12:12:14 PM
My advice to poker pros. Start lying to recs. A lot. And quickly.


Title: Re: Best games for us fish to play to have a chance of winning in the long run?
Post by: AndrewT on October 28, 2014, 12:34:35 PM
People don't mind playing -EV games (otherwise every casino would be empty) - sometimes they know the odds aren't in their favour but just want the thrill, but most of the time they just don't understand the maths behind the games.

However, 'there's a group of pro players who are using special programs against you and all talking to each other behind your back'? Well, you don't need to know anything about maths or probabilities to not like that, it'll touch a nerve of 'that's not fair' within the casual player.

Even if it is just happening at a tiny subset of games that most people won't play anyway, the perception is there.


Title: Re: Best games for us fish to play to have a chance of winning in the long run?
Post by: SuuPRlim on October 28, 2014, 12:38:28 PM
Woodsey is absolutely spot on. There is this nonsense idea peddled by online gambling executives that everyone is happy to lose money hand over fist because they are being 'entertained' by the gambling.

I'm sure some people are, but an awful lot of people in poker need to be able to at least suspend disbelief and give themselves what they think is a fair chance to win. It's the same in sports betting. For example, oh I dunno, some random poker player punting on the darts with no positive expectation whatsoever thinking they are just getting unlucky :)

Yeh, you wouldn't believe whilst I'm shrewdly picking out my darts bets how many dumb, drooling, moron poker players I see just punting there money off - they probably think they're winning CLOWNS


Title: Re: Best games for us fish to play to have a chance of winning in the long run?
Post by: AlunB on October 28, 2014, 12:41:09 PM
People don't mind playing -EV games (otherwise every casino would be empty) - sometimes they know the odds aren't in their favour but just want the thrill, but most of the time they just don't understand the maths behind the games.

However, 'there's a group of pro players who are using special programs against you and all talking to each other behind your back'? Well, you don't need to know anything about maths or probabilities to not like that, it'll touch a nerve of 'that's not fair' within the casual player.

Even if it is just happening at a tiny subset of games that most people won't play anyway, the perception is there.

Yeah, but they often need to lie to themselves or kid themselves that "this time" I'm going to beat the odds! We all do it. It's hope more than expectation, but you need to keep the hope alive. Poker has done a dreadful job of keeping losers happy. As I'm sure you well know that's pretty much the entire job of a casino or sports betting operator. Making losers happy. Poker sucks at this.


Title: Re: Best games for us fish to play to have a chance of winning in the long run?
Post by: AlunB on October 28, 2014, 12:42:01 PM
Woodsey is absolutely spot on. There is this nonsense idea peddled by online gambling executives that everyone is happy to lose money hand over fist because they are being 'entertained' by the gambling.

I'm sure some people are, but an awful lot of people in poker need to be able to at least suspend disbelief and give themselves what they think is a fair chance to win. It's the same in sports betting. For example, oh I dunno, some random poker player punting on the darts with no positive expectation whatsoever thinking they are just getting unlucky :)

Yeh, you wouldn't believe whilst I'm shrewdly picking out my darts bets how many dumb, drooling, moron poker players I see just punting there money off - they probably think they're winning CLOWNS

LIKE


Title: Re: Best games for us fish to play to have a chance of winning in the long run?
Post by: theprawnidentity on October 28, 2014, 12:58:13 PM
Poker has done a dreadful job of keeping losers happy.

This may be true, but I'm not sure I've met any.


Title: Re: Best games for us fish to play to have a chance of winning in the long run?
Post by: SuuPRlim on October 28, 2014, 01:05:54 PM
tbf though, poker gets a hard time at that, as it's person vs person not person vs corporation, when you dust £10k off at blackjack and the pitboss comps you dinner, you don't really feel that much tilt at him, he's just got your dinner and he doesn't actually get the money - the faceless corporation has it, and now you're going to have dinner, on them.

you lose £10k to a pro poker player HU, its a big hit to the ego, he's now sat there with your money - he started to lock up a bit when he got up a lot, he played the hand with the 77 pretty shit and got lucky it's pretty infuriating but you have someone to directly direct you irratence towards. What exactly can the poker player do? Take the man to dinner? Buy him a watch? Tell him how unlucky he was and comfort him? All he can do is act with some class and win like a gentleman and whereas most of the time that's enough a fair amount of the time it just isn't - through no fault of the player.

I always remember once in a casino a while back (before I'd really played a huge amount of live poker games) at about 5am when i was drinking this guy sat down at 50p/£1 with pile of cash made it £20 blind every hand and then berated the whole table for not gambling, I sat down and said to him "i'll gamble with you if you fancy it?" he said bring it on... I ended up winning ~£2500 off him including this final hand where I had K2 vs his 66 on 26T and won, 15minutes after he left the table i was chatting to someone next to a roulette table and he came up - I, very sincerely, said to him "brutal that hand mate very unlucky" to which he replied by calling me a "little c*nt" and to "fuck off before he broke my legs" - this was a old, respectable looking guy.

Learnt a few lessons here - firstly any of that post-hand empathy, no matter ho sincere has a far greater chance of coming across patronising and needly over genuine (espcially younger guy to older guy) so unless I knew the person well and had a relationship with them where they'd know i was sincere I wasn't going to do that. Also, despite the fact that you shouldn't, people take poker personally and rather than thinking "they shouldnt do that" you should respect it. The casino's don't have to worry about the social nuances of this they just do their job.

Similarly, the pokersites, they don't care about this either. The happiness of Rec players, and the contentment of Reg players is just something they take for granted (stars prolly less so than anyone else) and if they spent 1 minute thinking about this for every 60 they spent counting there money it'd be a lot nicer - however I'm not sure they'd make any more money.


Title: Re: Best games for us fish to play to have a chance of winning in the long run?
Post by: AlunB on October 28, 2014, 01:16:00 PM
tbf though, poker gets a hard time at that, as it's person vs person not person vs corporation, when you dust £10k off at blackjack and the pitboss comps you dinner, you don't really feel that much tilt at him, he's just got your dinner and he doesn't actually get the money - the faceless corporation has it, and now you're going to have dinner, on them.

you lose £10k to a pro poker player HU, its a big hit to the ego, he's now sat there with your money - he started to lock up a bit when he got up a lot, he played the hand with the 77 pretty shit and got lucky it's pretty infuriating but you have someone to directly direct you irratence towards. What exactly can the poker player do? Take the man to dinner? Buy him a watch? Tell him how unlucky he was and comfort him? All he can do is act with some class and win like a gentleman and whereas most of the time that's enough a fair amount of the time it just isn't - through no fault of the player.

I always remember once in a casino a while back (before I'd really played a huge amount of live poker games) at about 5am when i was drinking this guy sat down at 50p/£1 with pile of cash made it £20 blind every hand and then berated the whole table for not gambling, I sat down and said to him "i'll gamble with you if you fancy it?" he said bring it on... I ended up winning ~£2500 off him including this final hand where I had K2 vs his 66 on 26T and won, 15minutes after he left the table i was chatting to someone next to a roulette table and he came up - I, very sincerely, said to him "brutal that hand mate very unlucky" to which he replied by calling me a "little c*nt" and to "fuck off before he broke my legs" - this was a old, respectable looking guy.

Learnt a few lessons here - firstly any of that post-hand empathy, no matter ho sincere has a far greater chance of coming across patronising and needly over genuine (espcially younger guy to older guy) so unless I knew the person well and had a relationship with them where they'd know i was sincere I wasn't going to do that. Also, despite the fact that you shouldn't, people take poker personally and rather than thinking "they shouldnt do that" you should respect it. The casino's don't have to worry about the social nuances of this they just do their job.

Similarly, the pokersites, they don't care about this either. The happiness of Rec players, and the contentment of Reg players is just something they take for granted (stars prolly less so than anyone else) and if they spent 1 minute thinking about this for every 60 they spent counting there money it'd be a lot nicer - however I'm not sure they'd make any more money.

I don't think that's true at all anymore. Maybe once, but not now.

But yeah you make a good point. Much is often made about the late great Chip Reese and his knack for keeping the fish happy. No idea how he did it though.


Title: Re: Best games for us fish to play to have a chance of winning in the long run?
Post by: rfgqqabc on October 28, 2014, 01:27:12 PM
tbf though, poker gets a hard time at that, as it's person vs person not person vs corporation, when you dust £10k off at blackjack and the pitboss comps you dinner, you don't really feel that much tilt at him, he's just got your dinner and he doesn't actually get the money - the faceless corporation has it, and now you're going to have dinner, on them.

you lose £10k to a pro poker player HU, its a big hit to the ego, he's now sat there with your money - he started to lock up a bit when he got up a lot, he played the hand with the 77 pretty shit and got lucky it's pretty infuriating but you have someone to directly direct you irratence towards. What exactly can the poker player do? Take the man to dinner? Buy him a watch? Tell him how unlucky he was and comfort him? All he can do is act with some class and win like a gentleman and whereas most of the time that's enough a fair amount of the time it just isn't - through no fault of the player.

I always remember once in a casino a while back (before I'd really played a huge amount of live poker games) at about 5am when i was drinking this guy sat down at 50p/£1 with pile of cash made it £20 blind every hand and then berated the whole table for not gambling, I sat down and said to him "i'll gamble with you if you fancy it?" he said bring it on... I ended up winning ~£2500 off him including this final hand where I had K2 vs his 66 on 26T and won, 15minutes after he left the table i was chatting to someone next to a roulette table and he came up - I, very sincerely, said to him "brutal that hand mate very unlucky" to which he replied by calling me a "little c*nt" and to "fuck off before he broke my legs" - this was a old, respectable looking guy.

Learnt a few lessons here - firstly any of that post-hand empathy, no matter ho sincere has a far greater chance of coming across patronising and needly over genuine (espcially younger guy to older guy) so unless I knew the person well and had a relationship with them where they'd know i was sincere I wasn't going to do that. Also, despite the fact that you shouldn't, people take poker personally and rather than thinking "they shouldnt do that" you should respect it. The casino's don't have to worry about the social nuances of this they just do their job.

Similarly, the pokersites, they don't care about this either. The happiness of Rec players, and the contentment of Reg players is just something they take for granted (stars prolly less so than anyone else) and if they spent 1 minute thinking about this for every 60 they spent counting there money it'd be a lot nicer - however I'm not sure they'd make any more money.

I don't think that's true at all anymore. Maybe once, but not now.

But yeah you make a good point. Much is often made about the late great Chip Reese and his knack for keeping the fish happy. No idea how he did it though.

Cocaine?


Title: Re: Best games for us fish to play to have a chance of winning in the long run?
Post by: arbboy on October 28, 2014, 01:33:16 PM
IMO

If every 'rec' knew, really deep down knew, they were never going to win in the long term the vast vast majority would never play again unless it was with their mates or in the occasional tournament for a chance at a bink.

Funnily enough that's almost exactly what I do now...

Alan I agree with your view to a certain degree but you are quite a sensible sounding chap who probably keeps records etc of his punting/poker.  The vast majority of recs think they win, 'win a bit lose a bit it balances out over the year' 'some days you win some days you lose' etc etc but they haven't got a clue how much they lose because they don't keep records just like I don't keep records of how many kebabs I eat a year and how many pints I drink. I couldn't care less so I have no idea but it doesn't stop me doing the same next month but the pub will know how many they sell because it's their business.

I have lost count of the amount of recs who try to convince me they are winning punters yet when you ask them how much they made last year and on what sports /poker they haven't got a clue because they don't keep records so they haven't got a clue if they are winning or losing.


Title: Re: Best games for us fish to play to have a chance of winning in the long run?
Post by: cambridgealex on October 28, 2014, 01:34:55 PM
The great thing with some forms of poker (Tournaments for example) is that recreational players can and in many cases DO win in the long run. Without naming names, there's people in the live tournament world that have won vast sums of money and are massively odds on (if they continue their current game selection) to end their life as a net winner from poker.

And that can be anyone really. Very recently someone won something big that probably eclipsed their losses over their whole life and now even if they lose twice what they used to lose per year they'll end up a net winner from poker.

That's the dream, and that's the hope. I can't lie to hoards of recreational players who read here, or tell them to their face that that is possible by playing online cash or sngs. But I can say that with tournaments, everyone has a chance of winning life changing money whether they play twice a month on their night away from the wife or play 30 tournaments a day.


Title: Re: Best games for us fish to play to have a chance of winning in the long run?
Post by: AlunB on October 28, 2014, 01:39:21 PM
The great thing with some forms of poker (Tournaments for example) is that recreational players can and in many cases DO win in the long run. Without naming names, there's people in the live tournament world that have won vast sums of money and are massively odds on (if they continue their current game selection) to end their life as a net winner from poker.

And that can be anyone really. Very recently someone won something big that probably eclipsed their losses over their whole life and now even if they lose twice what they used to lose per year they'll end up a net winner from poker.

That's the dream, and that's the hope. I can't lie to hoards of recreational players who read here, or tell them to their face that that is possible by playing online cash or sngs. But I can say that with tournaments, everyone has a chance of winning life changing money whether they play twice a month on their night away from the wife or play 30 tournaments a day.

Odds against, but good point :)


Title: Re: Best games for us fish to play to have a chance of winning in the long run?
Post by: AlunB on October 28, 2014, 01:43:30 PM
IMO

If every 'rec' knew, really deep down knew, they were never going to win in the long term the vast vast majority would never play again unless it was with their mates or in the occasional tournament for a chance at a bink.

Funnily enough that's almost exactly what I do now...

Alan I agree with your view to a certain degree but you are quite a sensible sounding chap who probably keeps records etc of his punting/poker.  The vast majority of recs think they win, 'win a bit lose a bit it balances out over the year' 'some days you win some days you lose' etc etc but they haven't got a clue how much they lose because they don't keep records just like I don't keep records of how many kebabs I eat a year and how many pints I drink. I couldn't care less so I have no idea but it doesn't stop me doing the same next month but the pub will know how many they sell because it's their business.

I have lost count of the amount of recs who try to convince me they are winning punters yet when you ask them how much they made last year and on what sports /poker they haven't got a clue because they don't keep records so they haven't got a clue if they are winning or losing.

I agree with you. That's sort of what I am trying to say. Poker as an industry, not just the pros, needs to work harder to foster this illusion. And things like the HUSNG cartels do anything but.


Title: Re: Best games for us fish to play to have a chance of winning in the long run?
Post by: cambridgealex on October 28, 2014, 01:46:33 PM
Also I'd like to echo Dave's comments about how hard it is to appear sincere and sensitive when you get win big vs recreational players. Many times I've been in the situation he describes where I feel genuine compassion for someone and been lost for a good way to show it.


Title: Re: Best games for us fish to play to have a chance of winning in the long run?
Post by: cambridgealex on October 28, 2014, 01:48:07 PM
The great thing with some forms of poker (Tournaments for example) is that recreational players can and in many cases DO win in the long run. Without naming names, there's people in the live tournament world that have won vast sums of money and are massively odds on (if they continue their current game selection) to end their life as a net winner from poker.

And that can be anyone really. Very recently someone won something big that probably eclipsed their losses over their whole life and now even if they lose twice what they used to lose per year they'll end up a net winner from poker.

That's the dream, and that's the hope. I can't lie to hoards of recreational players who read here, or tell them to their face that that is possible by playing online cash or sngs. But I can say that with tournaments, everyone has a chance of winning life changing money whether they play twice a month on their night away from the wife or play 30 tournaments a day.

Odds against, but good point :)

Does odds against mean it is likely to happen?! I thought if something was "odds on" to happen, then it was likely to happen? No wonder I didn't fit in in TFT :P


Title: Re: Best games for us fish to play to have a chance of winning in the long run?
Post by: AlunB on October 28, 2014, 01:51:16 PM
The great thing with some forms of poker (Tournaments for example) is that recreational players can and in many cases DO win in the long run. Without naming names, there's people in the live tournament world that have won vast sums of money and are massively odds on (if they continue their current game selection) to end their life as a net winner from poker.

And that can be anyone really. Very recently someone won something big that probably eclipsed their losses over their whole life and now even if they lose twice what they used to lose per year they'll end up a net winner from poker.

That's the dream, and that's the hope. I can't lie to hoards of recreational players who read here, or tell them to their face that that is possible by playing online cash or sngs. But I can say that with tournaments, everyone has a chance of winning life changing money whether they play twice a month on their night away from the wife or play 30 tournaments a day.

Odds against, but good point :)

Does odds against mean it is likely to happen?! I thought if something was "odds on" to happen, then it was likely to happen? No wonder I didn't fit in in TFT :P

Odds on is 1/3 odds against is 3/1.

You said odds on to end their life as a net winner. That means massively likely to doesn't it?

Not actually trying to be a smart arse, just trying to be helpful :)

edit: Just realised I misread your reply! Sorry. But see above :)


Title: Re: Best games for us fish to play to have a chance of winning in the long run?
Post by: cambridgealex on October 28, 2014, 02:12:40 PM
Yeh I'm saying someone that's won £200k last weekend is now odds on to end their life as a winner if they keep playing £500 Freezeouts.


Title: Re: Best games for us fish to play to have a chance of winning in the long run?
Post by: AlunB on October 28, 2014, 02:13:54 PM
Yeh I'm saying someone that's won £200k last weekend is now odds on to end their life as a winner if they keep playing £500 Freezeouts.

Oh I see. I thought you were saying there were people who won £200k in a tournament who were now odds on to punt it all back. My bad. As you were...


Title: Re: Best games for us fish to play to have a chance of winning in the long run?
Post by: Rexas on October 28, 2014, 02:14:38 PM
Also I'd like to echo Dave's comments about how hard it is to appear sincere and sensitive when you get win big vs recreational players. Many times I've been in the situation he describes where I feel genuine compassion for someone and been lost for a good way to show it.

I call. Unless it's that they didn't have more money to start the hand ;)


Title: Re: Best games for us fish to play to have a chance of winning in the long run?
Post by: arbboy on October 28, 2014, 02:22:45 PM
Yeh I'm saying someone that's won £200k last weekend is now odds on to end their life as a winner if they keep playing £500 Freezeouts.

Oh I see. I thought you were saying there were people who won £200k in a tournament who were now odds on to punt it all back. My bad. As you were...

I think you are both right tbh. Alex is right because certain dtd mtt luck boxes won't punt their golden winnings back on poker so they will end up lifetime poker mtt winners but you are right because they punt it all back on the tables instead!  We all know the two we are talking about here!


Title: Re: Best games for us fish to play to have a chance of winning in the long run?
Post by: cambridgealex on October 28, 2014, 02:23:06 PM
Also I'd like to echo Dave's comments about how hard it is to appear sincere and sensitive when you get win big vs recreational players. Many times I've been in the situation he describes where I feel genuine compassion for someone and been lost for a good way to show it.

I call. Unless it's that they didn't have more money to start the hand ;)

You will have never seen this side of me that's true ;)


Title: Re: Best games for us fish to play to have a chance of winning in the long run?
Post by: Rexas on October 28, 2014, 02:26:55 PM
Also I'd like to echo Dave's comments about how hard it is to appear sincere and sensitive when you get win big vs recreational players. Many times I've been in the situation he describes where I feel genuine compassion for someone and been lost for a good way to show it.

I call. Unless it's that they didn't have more money to start the hand ;)

You will have never seen this side of me that's true ;)

Well, I've seen that look many a time :D


Title: Re: Best games for us fish to play to have a chance of winning in the long run?
Post by: WotRTheChances on October 28, 2014, 02:30:51 PM
Great post Dave, agree 100%.

Btw, even as a "pro" when I was trying to get to know a certain someone I would often play at DTD if I knew she was working, or go to Gala if I knew she was going there on her day off :D So it's not just recs who think like this!

creep alert


Title: Re: Best games for us fish to play to have a chance of winning in the long run?
Post by: FredW on October 28, 2014, 02:36:35 PM
Great post Dave, agree 100%.

Btw, even as a "pro" when I was trying to get to know a certain someone I would often play at DTD if I knew she was working, or go to Gala if I knew she was going there on her day off :D So it's not just recs who think like this!

creep alert

Haha, I spotted this as well. No means no Alex and when she says she's going home after Gala, you do not have the right to follow her :D


Title: Re: Best games for us fish to play to have a chance of winning in the long run?
Post by: WotRTheChances on October 28, 2014, 02:40:15 PM
I'd agree with what Dave said before about recs having different motives for playing and aren't just looking for the softest games. That said if a friend of mine said they loved the thrill of cash games, but couldnt get to a casino to play live, but wanted the chance at winning decent money, i'd still strongly advise them against playing mid-high stakes cash online as although very short-term they could win a bit and have some fun, long term it wouldn't be sustainable to play in such games unless you had a lot of expendable $$. So either you want to find a soft fun game (like DTD stuff, or maybe playing on a small site - still not mid/high stakes cash) or find a form of the game which is very high variance, so at least you've got a shot at doing well and being able to sustain your hobby (like smallish stakes online MTTs, or live MTTs)


Title: Re: Best games for us fish to play to have a chance of winning in the long run?
Post by: cambridgealex on October 28, 2014, 02:44:36 PM
Great post Dave, agree 100%.

Btw, even as a "pro" when I was trying to get to know a certain someone I would often play at DTD if I knew she was working, or go to Gala if I knew she was going there on her day off :D So it's not just recs who think like this!

creep alert

Haha, I spotted this as well. No means no Alex and when she says she's going home after Gala, you do not have the right to follow her :D

Grinders gotta grind


Title: Re: Best games for us fish to play to have a chance of winning in the long run?
Post by: Woodsey on October 28, 2014, 02:46:42 PM
Going back to my original question, I still don't think there is a better option than playing the small DTD sats to bigger events. I reckon even pretty poor players would not be much -EV in the long run if they set themselves a small budget to try and qualify for all of these and grind from the bottom sats up. They are bound to hit a few scores eventually  ;fishing;


Title: Re: Best games for us fish to play to have a chance of winning in the long run?
Post by: arbboy on October 28, 2014, 02:59:07 PM
Going back to my original question, I still don't think there is a better option than playing the small DTD sats to bigger events. I reckon even pretty poor players would not be much -EV in the long run if they set themselves a small budget to try and qualify for all of these and grind from the bottom sats up. They are bound to hit a few scores eventually  ;fishing;

Woodsey you can kill the thread by posting the Grimsby pic in here. Then all the fish will know which games to play to maximise their 'ev'!!!!!


Title: Re: Best games for us fish to play to have a chance of winning in the long run?
Post by: AlunB on October 28, 2014, 03:00:20 PM
Does make me smile how often in these type of threads you get recs/fish saying what they want from the game, followed by pro players saying no no that's not what recs think.
 
Erm...


Title: Re: Best games for us fish to play to have a chance of winning in the long run?
Post by: AlunB on October 28, 2014, 03:01:31 PM
Going back to my original question, I still don't think there is a better option than playing the small DTD sats to bigger events. I reckon even pretty poor players would not be much -EV in the long run if they set themselves a small budget to try and qualify for all of these and grind from the bottom sats up. They are bound to hit a few scores eventually  ;fishing;

To use a sports betting analogy isn't that a bit like saying you should only bet accas?

I think as a few people have said already small field, low-mid stakes online tourneys seem like the best bet.


Title: Re: Best games for us fish to play to have a chance of winning in the long run?
Post by: arbboy on October 28, 2014, 03:11:40 PM
Going back to my original question, I still don't think there is a better option than playing the small DTD sats to bigger events. I reckon even pretty poor players would not be much -EV in the long run if they set themselves a small budget to try and qualify for all of these and grind from the bottom sats up. They are bound to hit a few scores eventually  ;fishing;

To use a sports betting analogy isn't that a bit like saying you should only bet accas?

I think as a few people have said already small field, low-mid stakes online tourneys seem like the best bet.

Dtd says are literally the best way to bet an acca playing poker.  You always have the best of it. The numbers are stacked more in your favour than ever.  Accas can be value. Don't listen to tikay all the time.  Most of the time they are not but used to your advantage they are profitable tools to get on long term.


Title: Re: Best games for us fish to play to have a chance of winning in the long run?
Post by: Woodsey on October 28, 2014, 03:15:02 PM
Going back to my original question, I still don't think there is a better option than playing the small DTD sats to bigger events. I reckon even pretty poor players would not be much -EV in the long run if they set themselves a small budget to try and qualify for all of these and grind from the bottom sats up. They are bound to hit a few scores eventually  ;fishing;

To use a sports betting analogy isn't that a bit like saying you should only bet accas?

I think as a few people have said already small field, low-mid stakes online tourneys seem like the best bet.

Ok, but specifically for people like me who are interested the best chance of a bigger score for min outlay and living 10 mins from DTD.


Title: Re: Best games for us fish to play to have a chance of winning in the long run?
Post by: arbboy on October 28, 2014, 03:17:28 PM
Going back to my original question, I still don't think there is a better option than playing the small DTD sats to bigger events. I reckon even pretty poor players would not be much -EV in the long run if they set themselves a small budget to try and qualify for all of these and grind from the bottom sats up. They are bound to hit a few scores eventually  ;fishing;

To use a sports betting analogy isn't that a bit like saying you should only bet accas?
H
I think as a few people have said already small field, low-mid stakes online tourneys seem like the best bet.

Ok, but specifically for people like me who are interested the best chance of a bigger score for min outlay.

I suggest Grimsby for a big score with min outlay!!!


Title: Re: Best games for us fish to play to have a chance of winning in the long run?
Post by: Marky147 on October 28, 2014, 03:20:25 PM
Going back to my original question, I still don't think there is a better option than playing the small DTD sats to bigger events. I reckon even pretty poor players would not be much -EV in the long run if they set themselves a small budget to try and qualify for all of these and grind from the bottom sats up. They are bound to hit a few scores eventually  ;fishing;

To use a sports betting analogy isn't that a bit like saying you should only bet accas?

I think as a few people have said already small field, low-mid stakes online tourneys seem like the best bet.

Ok, but specifically for people like me who are interested the best chance of a bigger score for min outlay and living 10 mins from DTD.


Arb has already said those Sats are good...

Failing that, suck it up, or change hobbies ;)


Title: Re: Best games for us fish to play to have a chance of winning in the long run?
Post by: Woodsey on October 28, 2014, 03:21:19 PM
Going back to my original question, I still don't think there is a better option than playing the small DTD sats to bigger events. I reckon even pretty poor players would not be much -EV in the long run if they set themselves a small budget to try and qualify for all of these and grind from the bottom sats up. They are bound to hit a few scores eventually  ;fishing;

To use a sports betting analogy isn't that a bit like saying you should only bet accas?

I think as a few people have said already small field, low-mid stakes online tourneys seem like the best bet.

Ok, but specifically for people like me who are interested the best chance of a bigger score for min outlay and living 10 mins from DTD.


Arb has already said those Sats are good...

Failing that, suck it up, or change hobbies ;)

I am mate, don't play much there days at all.


Title: Re: Best games for us fish to play to have a chance of winning in the long run?
Post by: Marky147 on October 28, 2014, 03:23:38 PM
Crack open a beer, and play the Sunday Storm!

You're most likely going to do your $11, but you might just win $30k one night...