Best games for us fish to play to have a chance of winning in the long run?

[rfgqqabc]

tbf though, poker gets a hard time at that, as it's person vs person not person vs corporation, when you dust £10k off at blackjack and the pitboss comps you dinner, you don't really feel that much tilt at him, he's just got your dinner and he doesn't actually get the money - the faceless corporation has it, and now you're going to have dinner, on them.

you lose £10k to a pro poker player HU, its a big hit to the ego, he's now sat there with your money - he started to lock up a bit when he got up a lot, he played the hand with the 77 pretty shit and got lucky it's pretty infuriating but you have someone to directly direct you irratence towards. What exactly can the poker player do? Take the man to dinner? Buy him a watch? Tell him how unlucky he was and comfort him? All he can do is act with some class and win like a gentleman and whereas most of the time that's enough a fair amount of the time it just isn't - through no fault of the player.

I always remember once in a casino a while back (before I'd really played a huge amount of live poker games) at about 5am when i was drinking this guy sat down at 50p/£1 with pile of cash made it £20 blind every hand and then berated the whole table for not gambling, I sat down and said to him "i'll gamble with you if you fancy it?" he said bring it on... I ended up winning ~£2500 off him including this final hand where I had K2 vs his 66 on 26T and won, 15minutes after he left the table i was chatting to someone next to a roulette table and he came up - I, very sincerely, said to him "brutal that hand mate very unlucky" to which he replied by calling me a "little c*nt" and to "fuck off before he broke my legs" - this was a old, respectable looking guy.

Learnt a few lessons here - firstly any of that post-hand empathy, no matter ho sincere has a far greater chance of coming across patronising and needly over genuine (espcially younger guy to older guy) so unless I knew the person well and had a relationship with them where they'd know i was sincere I wasn't going to do that. Also, despite the fact that you shouldn't, people take poker personally and rather than thinking "they shouldnt do that" you should respect it. The casino's don't have to worry about the social nuances of this they just do their job.

Similarly, the pokersites, they don't care about this either. The happiness of Rec players, and the contentment of Reg players is just something they take for granted (stars prolly less so than anyone else) and if they spent 1 minute thinking about this for every 60 they spent counting there money it'd be a lot nicer - however I'm not sure they'd make any more money.

I don't think that's true at all anymore. Maybe once, but not now.

But yeah you make a good point. Much is often made about the late great Chip Reese and his knack for keeping the fish happy. No idea how he did it though.

Cocaine?

[arbboy]

IMO

If every 'rec' knew, really deep down knew, they were never going to win in the long term the vast vast majority would never play again unless it was with their mates or in the occasional tournament for a chance at a bink.

Funnily enough that's almost exactly what I do now...

Alan I agree with your view to a certain degree but you are quite a sensible sounding chap who probably keeps records etc of his punting/poker.  The vast majority of recs think they win, 'win a bit lose a bit it balances out over the year' 'some days you win some days you lose' etc etc but they haven't got a clue how much they lose because they don't keep records just like I don't keep records of how many kebabs I eat a year and how many pints I drink. I couldn't care less so I have no idea but it doesn't stop me doing the same next month but the pub will know how many they sell because it's their business.

I have lost count of the amount of recs who try to convince me they are winning punters yet when you ask them how much they made last year and on what sports /poker they haven't got a clue because they don't keep records so they haven't got a clue if they are winning or losing.

[cambridgealex]

The great thing with some forms of poker (Tournaments for example) is that recreational players can and in many cases DO win in the long run. Without naming names, there's people in the live tournament world that have won vast sums of money and are massively odds on (if they continue their current game selection) to end their life as a net winner from poker.

And that can be anyone really. Very recently someone won something big that probably eclipsed their losses over their whole life and now even if they lose twice what they used to lose per year they'll end up a net winner from poker.

That's the dream, and that's the hope. I can't lie to hoards of recreational players who read here, or tell them to their face that that is possible by playing online cash or sngs. But I can say that with tournaments, everyone has a chance of winning life changing money whether they play twice a month on their night away from the wife or play 30 tournaments a day.

[AlunB]

The great thing with some forms of poker (Tournaments for example) is that recreational players can and in many cases DO win in the long run. Without naming names, there's people in the live tournament world that have won vast sums of money and are massively odds on (if they continue their current game selection) to end their life as a net winner from poker.

And that can be anyone really. Very recently someone won something big that probably eclipsed their losses over their whole life and now even if they lose twice what they used to lose per year they'll end up a net winner from poker.

That's the dream, and that's the hope. I can't lie to hoards of recreational players who read here, or tell them to their face that that is possible by playing online cash or sngs. But I can say that with tournaments, everyone has a chance of winning life changing money whether they play twice a month on their night away from the wife or play 30 tournaments a day.

Odds against, but good point

[AlunB]

IMO

If every 'rec' knew, really deep down knew, they were never going to win in the long term the vast vast majority would never play again unless it was with their mates or in the occasional tournament for a chance at a bink.

Funnily enough that's almost exactly what I do now...

Alan I agree with your view to a certain degree but you are quite a sensible sounding chap who probably keeps records etc of his punting/poker.  The vast majority of recs think they win, 'win a bit lose a bit it balances out over the year' 'some days you win some days you lose' etc etc but they haven't got a clue how much they lose because they don't keep records just like I don't keep records of how many kebabs I eat a year and how many pints I drink. I couldn't care less so I have no idea but it doesn't stop me doing the same next month but the pub will know how many they sell because it's their business.

I have lost count of the amount of recs who try to convince me they are winning punters yet when you ask them how much they made last year and on what sports /poker they haven't got a clue because they don't keep records so they haven't got a clue if they are winning or losing.

I agree with you. That's sort of what I am trying to say. Poker as an industry, not just the pros, needs to work harder to foster this illusion. And things like the HUSNG cartels do anything but.

[cambridgealex]

Also I'd like to echo Dave's comments about how hard it is to appear sincere and sensitive when you get win big vs recreational players. Many times I've been in the situation he describes where I feel genuine compassion for someone and been lost for a good way to show it.

[cambridgealex]

The great thing with some forms of poker (Tournaments for example) is that recreational players can and in many cases DO win in the long run. Without naming names, there's people in the live tournament world that have won vast sums of money and are massively odds on (if they continue their current game selection) to end their life as a net winner from poker.

And that can be anyone really. Very recently someone won something big that probably eclipsed their losses over their whole life and now even if they lose twice what they used to lose per year they'll end up a net winner from poker.

That's the dream, and that's the hope. I can't lie to hoards of recreational players who read here, or tell them to their face that that is possible by playing online cash or sngs. But I can say that with tournaments, everyone has a chance of winning life changing money whether they play twice a month on their night away from the wife or play 30 tournaments a day.

Odds against, but good point

Does odds against mean it is likely to happen?! I thought if something was "odds on" to happen, then it was likely to happen? No wonder I didn't fit in in TFT

[AlunB]

The great thing with some forms of poker (Tournaments for example) is that recreational players can and in many cases DO win in the long run. Without naming names, there's people in the live tournament world that have won vast sums of money and are massively odds on (if they continue their current game selection) to end their life as a net winner from poker.

And that can be anyone really. Very recently someone won something big that probably eclipsed their losses over their whole life and now even if they lose twice what they used to lose per year they'll end up a net winner from poker.

That's the dream, and that's the hope. I can't lie to hoards of recreational players who read here, or tell them to their face that that is possible by playing online cash or sngs. But I can say that with tournaments, everyone has a chance of winning life changing money whether they play twice a month on their night away from the wife or play 30 tournaments a day.

Odds against, but good point

Does odds against mean it is likely to happen?! I thought if something was "odds on" to happen, then it was likely to happen? No wonder I didn't fit in in TFT

Odds on is 1/3 odds against is 3/1.

You said odds on to end their life as a net winner. That means massively likely to doesn't it?

Not actually trying to be a smart arse, just trying to be helpful

edit: Just realised I misread your reply! Sorry. But see above

[cambridgealex]

Yeh I'm saying someone that's won £200k last weekend is now odds on to end their life as a winner if they keep playing £500 Freezeouts.

[AlunB]

Yeh I'm saying someone that's won £200k last weekend is now odds on to end their life as a winner if they keep playing £500 Freezeouts.

Oh I see. I thought you were saying there were people who won £200k in a tournament who were now odds on to punt it all back. My bad. As you were...

[Rexas]

Also I'd like to echo Dave's comments about how hard it is to appear sincere and sensitive when you get win big vs recreational players. Many times I've been in the situation he describes where I feel genuine compassion for someone and been lost for a good way to show it.

I call. Unless it's that they didn't have more money to start the hand

[arbboy]

Yeh I'm saying someone that's won £200k last weekend is now odds on to end their life as a winner if they keep playing £500 Freezeouts.

Oh I see. I thought you were saying there were people who won £200k in a tournament who were now odds on to punt it all back. My bad. As you were...

I think you are both right tbh. Alex is right because certain dtd mtt luck boxes won't punt their golden winnings back on poker so they will end up lifetime poker mtt winners but you are right because they punt it all back on the tables instead!  We all know the two we are talking about here!

[cambridgealex]

Also I'd like to echo Dave's comments about how hard it is to appear sincere and sensitive when you get win big vs recreational players. Many times I've been in the situation he describes where I feel genuine compassion for someone and been lost for a good way to show it.

I call. Unless it's that they didn't have more money to start the hand

You will have never seen this side of me that's true

[Rexas]

Also I'd like to echo Dave's comments about how hard it is to appear sincere and sensitive when you get win big vs recreational players. Many times I've been in the situation he describes where I feel genuine compassion for someone and been lost for a good way to show it.

I call. Unless it's that they didn't have more money to start the hand

You will have never seen this side of me that's true

Well, I've seen that look many a time

[WotRTheChances]

Great post Dave, agree 100%.

Btw, even as a "pro" when I was trying to get to know a certain someone I would often play at DTD if I knew she was working, or go to Gala if I knew she was going there on her day off So it's not just recs who think like this!

creep alert