blonde poker forum

Apologies for the poll, but I neeeeeeeeeeed to know.  ;tk;

its a no brainer for anyone who can play poker. If u cant play so well and ur only chance of getting chips is by calling all ins and getting lucky, then call. But any decent player with belief in his/her ability is folding.

headsup?
Have to call, who's gonna go allin with 25/50 blinds with aces?

theres been an all in and an all in call b4 u!  if u call its 3 way

It doesn't say that!!!

yes it does!!! it says me and someone else go all in b4 u. you aere holding k k, wot do u do?

ME = MAIN EVENT!!

read it wrong, i thought it was 3 way action, heads up u call. noone goes all in here with  A A, they know they can only get called by K K which is 220/1 that some has it (10 seated)

 rotflmfao

Fold from me definately. Even against AK I am only a 70/30 shot and Im not going out after one hand. Imagine how silly you look when they flip their aces over

Are you saying fold because if you call you might look silly?

Just an all in, (no pissing contest before hand, no raise, re-raise,  re-re-raise, I'm all in)

I would call in a heart beat and when Brian Wilson turns over  7h 4c you just hope that your hand holds up.

If its ME in the ME i call, but that's just ME, ME or not I am going to believe my opponent has not got AA and I will try and get chips for ME in the ME here.

However, people are different to ME

I am surprised the vote is 24/8 In favour of folding though

Harrington has sold more books than I gave him credit for, Lots of Rocks out there.

That would be the guy that won his seat on pokerstars, Get's AA first hand and is Terrified of playing them.
and the guy that is about to bust you out.

Taking the walk of shame first hand, asking yourself why did i call that?. There was only one possible hand he could be doing that with.

Easy pass for me..

Surely no one is moving all in with AA here even if they are a lucky qualifier?

no one wastes AA like this do they? not even a Poker Stars qualifier for WPT Bahamas

Only one way to find out.

 But i have to admit, i agree with ariston, you are going to look rather silly to the rest of the table when he flips over AA.

We Know absolutely nothing about anyone here at this stage.

Okay, here goes.....I call

Many people will go all-in the first hand whatever, for a laugh, to get settled, to guarantee they'll win at least one pot in the WSOP and possibly other reasons. Sure, he could have AA. Sure, he could draw out. However, I'm fairly sure it's +EV to call overall.

If you fold and your opponent doesn't show, it'll be harder to concentrate for the rest of the day. The "should I have called" question being at the back of your mind.

If you call and win, you can kick back and chill for the rest of the day, get settled in, which is so vitally important in this marathon event.

If you call and lose, you can go pissed in Vegas baby. All those losers at your table playing cards for 12 hours a day and probably won't cash, they're the suckers. That's what I'd be telling myself anyway.

Buy a deck of cards from the Hotel gift shop, sellotape your losing KK to your forehead and wander about the town showing them all how to live it up and lose with grace. Well, maybe grace is the wrong word but you know what I mean.

If anyone enquires as to why you have cards on your forehead. Tell them that tonight, you were the first man to be knocked out of the 2006 WSOP. They might buy you a sympathy drink, keen to hear your story. They might buy you one if you promise to go away. The cost of these drinks factors into my EV calculation and this is why I call.

I'm in it to win it baby, not to lay down KK.

All that being said, against an all-in AND a call, it's an easy fold.

Ok ok - I admit it - second hand of the wpt this year I went all in with Aces - but the dealer had suggested that to get the table going the players should identify the weak link and 8 pairs of eyes had turned to me the only bird at the table.....so second hand with aces i go all in. Had to make statement and from then on (no callers by the way) I got respect - they had no idea what I was holding btw.

It was not a waste of aces - it was a statement that it would have cost me a lot more to make if I had faffed around at the beginning. And if i had got a caller and lost then id have hit the sit and gos and played anyway.

I will now remove my hair shirt and re-dress in less apologetic clothing. :blonde:

Ding great post...

And a great reason for it too...Told people not to mess with you. WELL PLAYED

 8)

I credit Ms Ding's special advisor for this strategy.

 ;hide;

i would call here as more often than not the raiser is holding a hande like QQ or JJ or AK

and they dont want to be throwing away chips as they hae no read on any players yet and no idea who is and who isnt going to try and out play them on a flop

overall its a +EV play and the times you are up against aces or you get spiked then dont worry there is another 10k comp next weekend

thanks to Bill Gates for this post!

 rotflmfao

I think you'll find TE that it was Ironside that made that post.

I keep hearing the +EV stuff, but there is information to be gained from a live game.

there sure is, so you use that information, apply the math, and then decide if your course of action is going to showdown a profit. Its not like you are either a math guy or a people person, and have to make that choice before playing a hand.

As for garnering information, I dont know what info you hope to gather on the first hand. You get no info from their betting: they are all in. You get no valid info from their behaviour: they might be a good actor... thats why I'd fold the hand and not think too much of it.

 ;bump;

Because I think its an interesting debate now, as these opinions are 2 1/2 years old and players are far more aggressive now, forget your old opinion if you had one, whats your opinion NOW!

calling here

OK GUYS ur not gonna like this.....for me (and its only my opinion)..i will shove regarless with aces pre at any stage...its the only hand i wud and do without remorse....with two all ins in front ur still clearly ahead any more then i fold, if im first to act i always insta shove......hate aces....theve been cracked more than the berlin wall!!

Never ever folding, pmsl.

You play good.

ps - 28-16 - Blonde is full of nits, wtf.

oh yeah and as for the kings...insta fold...

I'm torn 50/50 between a level and the most ridic post I've ever read

Gatso u DOOFUS!!, whats all this "its a level BS"....and most ridic, if i wanna look at ridic, i'll just check you out when in a game, that always provides good comedy...you clown!

A bit harsh ..but, in Gatso's case, fair.

I reckon we can turn that call/fold deficit round...

hmm, still 50/50

I call here. I think anyone who likes money should.

If you lose then whatever,  jus go have summat to eat and play another tourn or some cash, its Vegas ffs.

snap so hard.

LOL trust horneris to mention food....

Why wouldn't he?  ChipRich is prolly buying.

Insta call, I  have only ever folded KK once and that was Preflop and I am still proud of it, Would I do it again without the blatant tells I had on the bloke NEVER.  Chips across the line flip em up and pray the KK holds.

call,lose,lapdance 

Probably the threads most sensible comment TBF

me called sensible thats a first lol   stripper tilt ftmfw

If there's been no action and all in i'm not sure i can fold here although id spew when i called and he showes aces.Expect for dingdells post about her all in play which i accept for her reasoning imo anyone who makes this type of play i.e pushing all in for 20+bb in early levels is blatantly just a donk it is one of the worst plays in poker imo.I'm going to vote call as i believe that is the correct play however if i was in the situation i believe i wouldnt have it in me to make the call and would probably bottle it

Just had a hand where I had to make a decision for all my chips with KK.  Thought of this thread.  Called...AND WON THE HAND!!!  Cheers lads!

LOL at folding!

My opinion is bring back mystery721

If your roll is based playing $5/$10 tourneys and u manage to luckbox ur way to ME seat thru playing sats uve spent months dreaming about the day when you'll final play then it comes along ur totally buzzing and 1st hand comes u look at kk and then u hear the words all in from someone else before u at the table no other action you're saying you wouldn't even contemplate a fold ???


 rotflmfao rotflmfao rotflmfao Quality LOL

This could never ever happen at the main event these days anyway.

You start with 20,000 chips  ;nanana;

FOLD!!!!!

with how many million chips in play wtf does a first hand double up matter?

let me out play people on flops for 4-5 days and get mt stack into the millions then look back and laugh about the idea of going out or adding a HUGE 20,000 to your stack in the first hand of the tourney!!!!!

Anyone folding AA in this spot ?

surely never?

Altho you never know with some clowns.

We had a discussion the other day asking if you would fold AA if like 7 people were all in on the first hand of main event.

Rich was saying he would and me LeKnave & I said we would not.

[  ] i said that actually

you've been rumbled.

[X] nit

I like this thought about it being a donk play.

If you truely believe this, then why would you call and give the donk a chance to get lucky?

Wouldnt it be better to outplay him ?

As for me, Im folding.

Also with the AA scenario  (7 all ins) - im defo folding that one.

fyp

fyp

why waste the same on a lapdance when you can get your end away?

I was thinking about this the other day but not if I would do it. Personally I would have to instacall with AA or KK in any tournament even the ME.

I was thinking more about what Phil Hellmuth would do in this situation. I've seen him make some huge lay downs because he's so confident of his ability to play well over the 7 days and pick better spots once he knows everyone's games.

Even with AA I think Hellmuth would lay this down but it's because he doesn't need the early double up. Even if he's 80% favourite I think he wouldn't risk that 20% chance of someone hitting just for another 20k in a tournament with a zillion chips in play.

Anyone agree or am I talking shite??

You are talking shite mate, i would bet my entire life that Hellmuth would snap it so hard with Aces v 1 player, whenever in the tourn.

A great post, fixed to an even better post.

Horneris is wrong. He would double pike backward flip fist pump, and then call so hard.

claimer delivers

I'm folding the KK first had vs 1.

All those people who said they would call answered their own question when they said "why would anyone with aces push in that position".  The only hand I'm pushing pre with that early is Aces.

With regards the AA thing I'm pretty sure I've see hellmuth say he would call.  There was a video on Gutshot a few years back where they asked all the pro's what they would do with the AA and I think it was 6 pushes before 1st hand of ME.

They all par one (Mike the mouth I think) said they would call even though they know they are not favourite.  Their justification was if they call the volume of chips if it holds up would allow them to play the rest of the tournament to the best of their ability and have much better chance of going deep.

Virtually everyone since i bumped this yesterday says call, but the poll is still going up equally... umm... Silent nits...

not everyone, the same people keep repeating themselfs

easy fold, next

lolz at imaginary 300% edge on the field

I really must stop posting when I come in from the pub. No good ever comes of it  ;D

Thanks for putting me in my place  ;hide;

  ldo i feel so stupid now thx 4 the correction

KK goes in the bin.  Thats only cos Im scared money!  Might even turn my hand over before I decide to get a reaction out of him, heard u can do that these days.....

AA, OOOO tough one but I think I would call that one...

have i played you in Walsall festival? You deffo were not scared money and im still suprised at all the folders.

Where do you get 300% edge on the field?

The AA debate has been discussed to death already btw

Stanleys Luton?

Agreed

I didn't realise this thread existed when I posted one about the same situation here (http://blondepoker.com/forum/index.php?topic=28718.0).

Majority were in favour of the call with that one.  I still think it's a fold.

I also think the shove with AA is a good play.

And only bad players fold!

agreed...who in the world folds AA pre-flop here..I can't even believe it's a discussion.

So when you buy into the WSOP and pay your $10,000 - the cage says to you :

"Would you like to risk your 10k starting stack against having a 60k starting stack? All you have to do is guess heads/tails and be right on 2 out of 3 attempts. If you do not guess correctly, I keep your $10k and you do not play at all"

You say "Yes" without thinking?!?!?


How about 6 all ins infront of you and you have 56 suited - do you snap call?

Damn straight I do.

Do people think they can go through the main event folding to the money and winning the tourney without showing a hand!

Anyone who would fold KK vs 1 oppo in the first hand is insane, and shouldn't be playing the tournament.

On my first table in the '04 CPC John Kabbaj was in a similar predicament. First hand he held KK timed the clock then called, matey had AA.

Think it was John, please forgive me if it wasnt, long time ago.

He probably just accepted he ran bad and went to play the next tournament.

Possibly, but that was the ME not that many after I'm afraid.

m3boy's homegame?

Yeah I spose if you come over I would have a 300% edge ;)

Obv, only a complete donkey wouldn't take that deal!!!

If I could have that deal and that chance a 100 times then it's a no brainer and I'd have to take it.

Even if I could have that deal and that chance 20 to 30 times, it would be worth a risk.

If I could have 9 or 10 times it might be worth a risk.

But if I ever get the chance I'm only likely to enter a $10k tournament 2 or 3 times in my life - the odds don't look so good - how low must your faith in your post flop playing ability be to take such a risk?

OK, now say you only have 1 shot in a tourney like that...do you really think that you should not play Aces pre-flop if you only get 1 shot at something?

One shot ever.

(a) I'd rather rely on my skill on outplaying people over several hands than risking it all on one.
(b) If they were better than me I would still be more content knowing that they played better than me and took my chips through skill a bit at a time (or even all in one go if they went in post flop) rather than gambling all your chips when you only know 40% of your hand. Most hands get won by more than one pair - so why gamble when that's all you're holding?

One hand early in the tournament isn't going to win you the tournament - the same situation later in the tournament is an entirely different proposition. Then it is worth gambling a bit more because winning a single pot at a later stage could make the difference between a deep finish and winning the tournament  -  but early on, I'm too cautious to gamble.

This is me: -
 (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/2b/Gib_bay.jpg/300px-Gib_bay.jpg)

this is a fair point..OK say we're halfway through the tourney (still fairly far from the bubble though) 6 people push all in..now do you fold your aces if you have slightly above average stack but would get knocked out if you lose the hand?

Gives you so many positives its unreal though. Beat insurance, power, more choices from every decision from then on, greater implied odds versus deep stack american fish. I like to think of it as the first step to a 150k finishing stack @ end of day 1. Also, what leknave says is spot on about John Kabbaj and running bad, goes to next tournament. We shouldnt alter our strategy just because of stakes etc, we should make the call because its so massively +EV and in the long run is makes the most money.

How often do you get to 6x your starting stack?

Irrelevant.

If the players I'm playing against are better than me, I'd rather they prove it by taking my chips through skill rather than luck.

Nobody wants to get knocked out - but if I have to be, then I'd rather be out played than out donked.

If the players you're playing against are better than you, surely you would be better off gambling.

lolz

Obviously we are coming from 2 different points here, you are talking about playing a $10k event for enjoyment stakes, i am nowhere near having a bankroll to play a $10k event for a laugh so given my motivation is money i have to call.

hmm well yes, but ...

there is also a fundamental difference in approach depending on what you're hoping to get out of playing.

I'm not playing to make a living, I'm playing for fun.

If I have a table full of champions - it would be quite nice to outdraw them and win some chips, but it would be many, many times more satisfying to mix it up and play some hands - and win some chips this way. In the course of this, there is a fair chance that it would all go horribly long and I'd get knocked out - but at least I would have gone down fighting rather than just from shoving all my chips in pre flop and praying.


I can see how the different view point between the pro and the amateur is going to sometimes have a fundamental effect on strategy (the amateur is more likely to let the higher stakes get in the way for example) but shouldn't the pro's be the one's with confidence in their skill winning out over gambling?

EDIT: and if I was playing a $10k event for enjoyment stakes - it's because I've won a satellite (probably a freeroll)

A pro's biggest edge in a tournament is knowing he has to gamble and when to do so, a 40% shot at a 6x up is an edge no-one in the world has, so i would have to wing it in.

Posted by: Jon MW

I really would prefer to get out donked than out played every time. Playing well and losing is a more satisfying alternative than playing badly and losing imo. Also I don't think being out played constitutes having fun.

This is a massive tournament and odds are you are going to be faced with big and scary decisions throughout. Players forcing you to fold big hands right from the very start doesn't seem like the right mindset to get into for this. First hand or last hand doesn't matter so much really.

No dont think so.  Only played once in Walsall and that was the APAT thingy....

CALL you nits.

WB Lloyd :)

Same question with Queens? or does the shove stink of AK and we dont wanna race?

If he shows AK i snap QQ

say we dont 'know' he has AK, you have QQ and your faced with the original question?

I fold. But obv if AK flips through a surreptitious huff of air, i call youz sir, and i raize yous allin!


QQ v his ai range just doenst perform anywhere near as well.