blonde poker forum

Fell out with a good friend about this, would like some thoughts about.

Player A and Player B have agreed to swap 10% in a tournament. It's £100 buyin and is expected to make around £20k, also has some added value of seats into a GUKPT events and a Unibet event. Nothing is talked of regarding bounties.

Player A doesn't cash but gets a £1k bounty seat.

Player B does nothing.

Should Player A give 10% of the seat to Player B? The event is in Copenhagen.

Does the prize include flights and accommodation? 

i'd go to the citizens advice bureau. (joke)

i'd say no, a bounty is different to seats added and as unspecified there is no obligation for a percentage to carry across to copenhagen

Prize is just a seat for Unibet Open in Copenhagen.

Costs of Travel and accom came between £500-£600.

good friend...

Wouldn't be letting them sort out any travel arrangements on trips :D

I wouldn't expect any bounty money to be carried over although I would always honour it to someone I have swapped with.

I would do this ^^ but think these things should be discussed at the point of swapping or in the OP of a staking thread to avoid this happening.

Couldn't imagine falling out with a friend about this. How does that happen?

Player A should insist that PLayer B gets 10% of Copenhagen.

Player B should insist that Player A gets 10% of travel/hotel covered.

That's how friends do it.

Spot on.

This for me too.  10% of the prize money without paying 10% of reasonable expenses seems wrong.  Obv don't need to pay beer and massages.  Even on day 3.

Could you not? If one player thinks he is being cut short, then it's surely a potential problem


Player B assumes after event that he has 10% of seat anyway and look foward to the rail.

Player A and B discuss the matter in which A says to B that he indeed does not have 10% as it was not discussed.

Player B asks for opinion of a reputable name in poker who suggests the above and Player B offers 10% of costs.

Player A still says that he isn't giving away 10%.

Player A is one of those 'EV boys' I guess. Like the guys who cash big in Vegas and try to sell their dollars to friends for a vig etc.

I am pretty sure he will never be convinced that he is wrong. As far as he is concerned it was never discussed and so 'by the letter of the law' he is not obliged to give up the 10%. Short-sighted and completely classless, but there are a lot out there in the gambling world just like him unfortunately.

Player A is clearly a knob

Because I only swap 10% with people I know have similar ethics to mine and are good people. I wouldn't fall out with a friend over a slight misunderstanding of how some prize should be split.

If one party was unclear I would just tell them to ask someone (the first people I suggest are the likes of Trigg, Camel, Simon Galloway) and I'd go with whatever they said without making an issue of it beforehand.

Player A's response is of a grade A c***.

get new friends if this has become a big deal

This totally sums it up for me.

I agree. can't be very close if this stuff happens . Genuine friends are not so easy to come by .

probably a good idea to look at what he potential prizes are before swapping %s and coming to an agreement on stuff like that

Praz calls them EV RATS,then doess little rat impression afterwards, very amusing.

Is player A Arron?

Haha - that was what I was thinking.  Like when people make villain the hero in hand analysis.

Think you are confusing the term friend with mild acquaintance. As has been stated friends don't even let this become an issue.

This happened to me a few years ago with a well known poker player who is a blonde member but doesn't post much.  I thought it was a great way of effectively 'paying' £100 in EV to realise the type of character he was financially and never had any dealings with him again.  Sometimes it works in your favour long term to find out about these types for a relatively small amount of money.

With regard to bounties/additional seats etc i never understand why anything you win as a prize isn't part of any % or swop.  Why is it ever just the cash won for some people?  A prize is a prize.  Say you came 30th in the DTD DS at the weekend and cashed for circa £2k in cash plus a $3500 wpt seat why would the $3500 seat not be part of any swop?  It obviously would as it is worth more than the actual cash.  The size of the additional prizes doesn't matter though.  If they are part of the prize they are part of any swop.

If a seat is part of the prize and you swop then to me it doesn't even need discussing as you both have the same chance of winning the seat when you enter.  As someone said if playing that seat then involves additional exs it is totally logical as you have 10% of that seat to then pay the guy 10% of his exs he incurs playing that seat for you.

I would also add that if you win a trophy, bracelet, hotel room etc player B doesn't get 10% of that.  He only gets 10% of what is easily divisible, like the prize money from a bounty he wins in the poker tournament. 

obv everyone has different ideas and ways they do things, thats why it needs clearing up before start of play.
i often swop % with same person and we always have same agreement, however last week a bounty  tourney arose(cash for knocking player out type) (we had never played one before within our swops) and we agreed on same % swop, but we would keep any bounty cash ourselves.

In this case I could see why people might agree to leave the UB seat out.  Its in Copenhagen.  Its all fine swapping in a tournament that you're both at but if 1 person cashes and wins the seat, its them that has to front the expense of actually getting to Copenhagen and accomm and expenses etc while the other person gets to sweat their piece from the comfort of their own home and without any of those expenses but obv this should be mentioned beforehand

Player A has the option of using the Unibet seat in London, rather than Copenhagen. Player A still opts for the option of Copenhagen.

Player A and Play B haven't spoken to each other since this matter. 

I am not quite sure why this wouldn't be a big deal? It's obviously very unlikely that Player A will win a huge field event, but obviously one of them is going to feel disappointed with the matter and potentially financially lost out.

What difference does it make to player B where the seat is used as player A insists he doesn't have a % anyway?

Arron they are arguing over circa £100 in ev (not cash) if the buy in is £1k for the bounty seat assuming the guy will be break even player in the field which he probably would be at best given he is winning this seat in a £100 comp.  Good friends don't lose that friendship over £50 or £100.  It really isn't a big deal what they are arguing over in the bigger picture if they both value each others 'friendship'.  As i stated before they are probably not 'good' friends but more likely poker acquaintances.

Maybe costs would be cheaper in London?

If player A insists player B doesn't have a % though then the extra expenses from Copenhagen will have to be 100% incurred by player A so again it still doesn't make any difference to player B where player A uses the seat.

Are you player A, and if not, why don't you just say 'me and my mate'?

What has the world come to?

I regularly swap (whenever we play the same comp) with a good friend of mine, the first time one of us won a seat as part of a package, the % swap was included in that seat too.  It wasn't even discussed, it's part of the prizepool so goes without saying imo.

(http://dailyexhaust.com/images/be_excellent_to_each_other.jpg)

Aaron is player B.

as said this should be a non event amongst true friends/mates

as also said the argument is over a very trivial amount.

as said because not all eventualities were agreed upon then playerA is only guilty of not being decent.

learn from this lesson. heres some clues
1)player A is not very decent.
2)be more specific and detailed when deciding on details and terms of swops

Also if all else fails and you both completely disagree I would go with previous advise of going to 5 well known, trusted players who are likely to have experienced these situations to act as a panel as to what they would do.

IBAS for poker disputes!

Sounds like he's not your mate anyway, so give him a left hander, and you'll definitely never have to speak to him again ;D