Thanks greekstein and suuprlim. it is great to know that one hand can play so much different ways between different players, i mean, wow,actually every single street, gonna love plo game, such fun. Hope you two post more hands pls

doubt df is light ott 3way on worst card in the deck, doubt turn ever goes uncalled, good 10's have nearly the right price against nuts. Is flop standard?

hi alex, it is dc allen here from luton:), long time no c, when will u come to g again.

I'd 4b preflop vs a stuck Devilfish with this stack.

I think we need to be deeper to call the flop too, with someone else to act as well. If you are £2.5k deep I love floating the flop here with the perfect hand for it. If you're £4k  deep I'd be raising! God PLO is such fun :-)

As played turn shove is alrite actually, over a 300 bet size although its a little spews, problem is Devilfish plays these types of spots very well so he'll call off AA with diamonds etc so you get him of naked OPs and bluffs only.

I think we can raise the flop actually here or fold. Calling not so good with this stack.

Hi, dave, i agree 4bet pre is better probably, actually i didnt think about it when i was in the hand, thanks.(this is the hand i played actually, i asked 77dave to post it for me), personally i think raising on the flop is fine too, but will be get called a lot by devilfish, so it is not the best decision, with position, i think calling is better, i can always c the turn and make better decision after they act, saying turn is or etc, cards that i can bluff, turn 4 j q a, all goods for me, will be more happier, i mean with a pair and 2 back door flushing draw, fold 200 in 380 pot bet is not good , which i totally disagree with you,(even any k on the turn is not too bad for my hands) ,i got so many cards to hit that i can go for it. I m 100% agree that if we are little bit deeper, raising would be better than calling. Tbh, i put devilfish on kkxx hand, since we got a q j, he got aa chance is slightly lower, he could have run down cards as well, but the way he bets , betting size is exactly telling me he got kkxx, 300 bet is protection betting size here rather than others reasons, also betting 300 can find out where he is, well i believe a lot plo players do this kind of bet a lot anyway. Back to the turn, when devilfish bet 300, i count my chips, i got 1100 left, which is about the size that devil fish able to fold, (obv if i got less stack, i ll never raise here), so i decision to go for it, esp 3 ways, he more likely gonna believe me, i mean i pick up nut flush draw here, even any1 of them called me, life cant be too bad though. (if sb got two pair or set, he wont flat us with his stack).............as the result, sb passed, devilfish showed kk and passed(he thinks for a while). 77dave and me question here is not how we gonna play this hand(different players play different way, or better way than me), it is my turn -shove,is it EV+ or not. how often sb would have naked ten and check turn, how often would devilfish have naked ten, how often would devil fish call my bet with kkxx etc. I need help with mathmatically inclined, with the syntax. Many thanks

Just fold and move on imo. Bottom pair on a paired board facing aggro with 2 oppos still in.

Anyways as played. Def at least one has a ten, more than likely devilfish and i dont think he folds it. Expect this to get through >5% of time

If all players play ACB game, life would be so easilier.......

i think preflop is fine too.....fold flop is best play imo,  but cos u got position, you can also call and bluff , say if blank turn, u can call, and once river board changes, if he check, you should bluff all the time. but if he keeps betting river, then you should fold, ofc, we hope turn and river is blank blank, cos he may have big draw on the flop , rather than the nuts, so with position, both are fine imo. i am fish, hardly to fold the nuts, haha.....

anyone have any further thoughts on;

1) Whether to value-bet the river or not?
2) How to respond to his river raise?

1. Value-bet the river is defo standard play i think, check the river gonna lose so much value in the long term.  bet>check
2. The way you jam ATR is sick, I am sure that only advance players are able to do this, and obv you know exactly the logic behind it. The situation you metioned that : he was playing very tight and has seriously losened up over the last 30 hands, we can see he starts little bit mental now, so if he got house here, he is unlikely gonna fold to you. This is also because you have been betting a lot (he'll think too many) turns and have been caught betting flop/turn pretty light. In my point of view,  in this situation jam is bad.  fold>call>jam

Wow, this is HU game I know with more players I would be more cautious but in HU I think he is bluffing here alot with hands like kt k7 qt q7 flushes narrowing him down to just 2 hands is a bit tight imho in 6 card plo its about nut hands but HU  its hard to fold what in effect is 2nd nut on this board if he has it he has it so wont be raising but hard for me nit to call

no-body raises the Q high flush for value on the river, and we have the key card he'd need to be bluffing, if he's buffing with a SF blocker then it has to be the (no good him bluffing with the or the ) so we have to assume he has the in his hand - if he has the K of diamonds with it he'd prolly just call this bet, so needs to be a hand, with the that can't call and DOESN'T have the or the with it. Also he need to have the naked , and decide to bluff with it, it's a lot less obvious a bluff than the NF blocker bluff.

There is, imo no other bluffs he can be making other than with the in his hand and given the criteria for holding that card and how it affects the other cards he's likely to have I just can't give him anywhere near enough bluffs to make this a call.

very nice analysis, Dave

most players here would agree to fold then, sometimes it is hard to fold a single raise only when you are actually in the hand, i made this kinds of mistake before, actually many times, and when i reviewed my play, then i said to myself WTF i am calling here.

Never ever folding this in a hu game if he has it he has it

thanks ironside, the reason i fold here is because i don't think he gonna bluff with str8 flush bolckers ,( he called my cbet on that flop, more likely had draws ,5d,7d,9d all these are resasonable cards in his hands), i consider myself is sick bluffer, but TBO, i have never bluffed with str8 flush blockers(maybe i am not good enough to do that), cos i know a lot players would call with their A "nut" flush. However, i like the point you made that is hu game, this makes huge different though.

Two tables hu with him, he told me he is new to the 6 cards game, no much read on him, played him first time, only had been showed down few standard hands, here is what happened.

Full Tilt Poker Game #33077250482: Table Roll 3D6 (heads up) - PL 6 Card Omaha Hi - $5/$10 - 20:48:29 ET - 2013/08/05
Seat 1: super_grover765 ($2,887)
Seat 2: hero ($2,689.50)
super_grover765 posts the small blind of $5
hero posts the big blind of $10
The button is in seat #1
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to hero [ ]
super_grover765 raises to $30
hero raises to $90
super_grover765 calls $60
*** FLOP *** [ ] (Total Pot: $180, 2 Players)
hero has 15 seconds left to act
hero bets $110
super_grover765 calls $110
*** TURN *** [ ] [] (Total Pot: $400, 2 Players)
hero checks
super_grover765 checks
*** RIVER *** [ ] [] (Total Pot: $400, 2 Players)
hero bets $200
super_grover765 has 15 seconds left to act
super_grover765 raises to $985
hero has 15 seconds left to act
hero has requested TIME
hero folds
Uncalled bet of $785 returned to super_grover765
super_grover765 mucks
super_grover765 wins the pot ($799.50)
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $800 | Rake $0.50
Board: [ ]
Seat 1: super_grover765 (small blind) collected ($799.50), mucked
Seat 2: hero (big blind) folded on the River

It's not actually that sick - the way it has been played there is no way either players have qq/jj
Who checks flop with a set there and then doesn't raise the turn? Real nice play though, not many of the 2/4 regs see the game like this.
Nasdaq has 3456 a lot here, he's already shown he's weak by just calling the river. I miss playing with you chnren

it seems many of you know me, but i am newbie here,  know nobody, oh sry, properly few, i am so interested to know who you are, my boy.......

I miss playing with you too!

Especially when you keep bluffing me.....

Seriously, I find you very hard to play against, you apply a lot of pressure, all the time.

Hope you are well.

so when are you coming to see us?

yeah, tk, come back to see us, we really miss you a lot a lot, it is on me when i see you again.

[no way either players have qq/jj]

It's not actually that sick - the way it has been played there is no way either players have qq/jj

This isn't actually true, taking a very passive line with JJ or QQ given the stack and the texture of the board wouldn't be ridiculous imo, although it wouldn't be the stnd way for those hands to be played I will agree.

We are repping exclusively QQQ33 on the end (although I actually think if you have QJJ in yoour hand you shuld ship the river as well) you can't c/j any of the 333 boats OTR imo as JJJ and 666 are the most likely hands to get action from with a 3 blocked.

Interestingly chnren, how would you have played J3 and Q3 OTR?

i am betting with j3 or q3, and if i get raised(which is not often, even one of them got 66 would just call me more likely), i have to pass.........

It's not actually that sick - the way it has been played there is no way either players have qq/jj
Who checks flop with a set there and then doesn't raise the turn? Real nice play though, not many of the 2/4 regs see the game like this.
Nasdaq has 3456 a lot here, he's already shown he's weak by just calling the river. I miss playing with you chnren

it seems many of you know me, but i am newbie here,  know nobody, oh sry, properly few, i am so interested to know who you are, my boy.......

I miss playing with you too!

Especially when you keep bluffing me.....

Seriously, I find you very hard to play against, you apply a lot of pressure, all the time.

Hope you are well.

it is my honor to play with you, you are one of the best known player in uk, and you are such a nice gentleman......

It's not actually that sick - the way it has been played there is no way either players have qq/jj
Who checks flop with a set there and then doesn't raise the turn? Real nice play though, not many of the 2/4 regs see the game like this.
Nasdaq has 3456 a lot here, he's already shown he's weak by just calling the river. I miss playing with you chnren

it seems many of you know me, but i am newbie here,  know nobody, oh sry, properly few, i am so interested to know who you are, my boy.......

In most general circumstances I'd agree with Greeky + Stu about flatting the flop, however I disagree with this hand specifically because of JUST how bad our hand is. "safe turns" are Q,9,9,2,2 (we block two of those outs) A/K/J/T/8 we will have to fold (and will get bluffed a decent %) 7/7/7/6/6/6/6/5/5/5/5 we stack off on but will VERY often have improved his hand (another 4-12 outs) and 3/3/3/3/4/4/4/4 are prolly the best - we have no BD flush draws of any value and having 3bet OOP we assume he has big suited cards so will have at least one strong BD FD.

Given how unplayable our hand really is from the flop I''d hate to just call here, I think folding is better. The advantage of jamming here is that we will get some small % of folds . However he's bet pot so chances of him folding are reduced but there's a chance he might be mashing buttons + he might be a weaker player and elect to stack off with a budget hand.

Throw in a BD NFD, some sort of wrap around the 9 or even just a few blockers to the Q9 wrap and I'm 100% calling. As it is though feels like its just binning money this time.

Amex has been around for yeaaarrrs and yeeaaaaaaarrs I remember playing him back in like 2008 on FTP every day, he is DEFO not terrible btw he's always had a really bizzarre style, like he used to hardly 3bet much, but cold 4bet/fold to 5bets with deep stacks an INSANE amount, and no-one even REALLY does that now let alone back then. The old c-bet flop and c/r turn thing was one of his favorite moves as well! How he plays these days IDK but he USED to win for sure and he is capable of putting you into a fair old bit of trouble.

R.E Playing style for 6card it really does depend on the calibre of competition, I'm in the belief that if you're against players who are just playing poor starting hands (remember at least 70% of the 6card combo's are utterly unplayable in any spot, yet I've seen many players play a VPIP of +30% ) then you wana be playing a wider range of hands against them, IP - if you're taking this strategy of playing quite loose (as I prefer to do in most live games that play like this) then I prefer to be veyr passive early in the hand, no 3betting, plenty of limping/calling behind etc, just trying to get to flops IP with slightly better hands than my opponents and pick the equity off post-flop. I don't really ever see the need to build huge pots pre-flop unless you have an incredibly sick hand.

If the game is tougher then you have no option but to play very tight, as bad starting hands against competent players is just a recipe for a total calamity.  I've played a lil bit on FTP 6card and people are way way way way too loose, and if I'm saying they are too loose (as stu will confirm as he tells me I'm too loose all the time lol) then it's almost for sure that they are lol

very nice comment, learns a lot from you, appreciate. you are abusolutely right about playing 6 cards that we should play very tight when the game is tougher.