I'm assuming he means that at the Fox if you ask for a ruling you won't get some guy come over and confess he knows nothing about poker before delivering the verdict?

This reminds me of the Roland DeWolfe/Reinkemeier hand, where it was highlighted that the board/burn cards can be regarded as part of the muck.

lol@ the pit boss's 'ruling' that 'he has a flush so he wins'

OP we will look after you better at The Fox, lots of 1/1 games.

A good dealer will bring a folded hand into the muck, announcing 'fold' as he does so, perhaps giving the player a short moment to call time before the hand is made irretrievable.

This practice will avoid these sort of situations, where a player has obviously folded but then gets a chance to retrieve his hand.

It seems the Grosvenor rules make the situation even clearer, by making the betting line a 'folding line' too, so I can understand why you were upset about this ruling. We're not playing Blackjack here, its up to the player to read his own hand (unless his hand is tabled).

Alex if you suspected him to be a tricky player who might put you in a bad spot with a check raise you would have checked the flop behind.

You thought he was a straightforward player so you bet the flop for value.

Then he check-raises the flop. Obviously his range is strong - the fact you have a Jack kicker actually makes this easier to play, coz he could be check-raising a few better tens, in addition to his sets and 54s. Sometimes its a flush draw with one or two overs, you don't hate folding to that either.

Yes, sometimes he is making a stupid random play with a worse hand, but who cares? Most of the time you are crushed. Say thankyou to your opponent for making the hand very easy to play. Stop levelling yourself and tip the dealer a pound to shuffle quickly.

 ( mostly play premium cards 3/4 hands per hour )

If this is true and his reraising range is as tight then I would say you were probably already behind.  Unless you have history that suggests he might be reraising hands like AJ or AQ on the button then I would say it is a fairly easy (but painful) fold.

mmmm I think you posted this hand coz its one of those rare situations, given that you say he's tight, where his range consists of one single combination. I'm tempted to believe you made a great fold, but then again people tend to show Quads, don't they? Are sure he's tight?

seems like an EZ bet-fold. I thought the idea of $4 comps was you can keep your value range wide and fold when you get heat, without having to worry about being 'bluffed off the best hand' when the board is dry and his value range is narrow.

Very often the flush.

Obv it would be nice to have seen him showdown a big donk before, but in absence of any reads I actually like the flat call on the flop. In a 3bet pot, a pot-donk on the flop here says to me very strong (two-pair+, NFD, combo draw). When he continues on that turn with such a large bet I would give him credit for having it. Smaller stack sizes you could get it in on the flop. here i'm personally folding the turn. Interesting hand, interested to hear responses.

Would £8ph be a shit wage ? I think that would be reasonable for sitting dealing a deck of cards.

Night shifts stacking shelves probably pay more, dealing properly and accurately at speed is a skilled job, doing that whilst keeping up to 9 players in order is more than just a skilled job.

Being a cleaner,cleaning rooms quick enough to a high standard is a skilled job,and a tough one to.When I was a kitchen porter earning £5ph I was happy to be working and earning money.I've only ever had a problem with dealers who are rude never on how good they're at dealing as most places I've played they've been decent enough.If they feel underpaid they have an option,do something else.BTW £8ph in the north east is probably seen very differnetly to £8ph down south.

Also vey true about the north an south divide! An the point about rudeness from dealers is very common on where they should draw the line in terms of repsecting the players! i know it goes both ways has as players we are gultiy too, but it happens that maybe we get to friendly with dealers which can lead to the respect loss during the game an the proffesionlism suffers.........

Yeh its a shame that non-professionalism happens a lot

Atfer taking 2 months off i returned to playing poker again during september where my first stop was the DTD monthly weekend where i made a satisfactory return to Cash games wheres my tourney play was a bit of throwing my money away! After that i have mostly spent most of my month playing live cash in the Vic card room. The Vic is where i learned to play poker an it has been nice seeing old faces from the past.With all the players coming in from around the world due to the wpt ,wsope an ept the games would be good so i made London my home for a month grinding away trying to recover Vegas losses.
So with all the talking about dealers recently i thought it appropiate that very rarely do we praise good things that happen in our sport! I have played alot of poker at Dtd an the Vic an overall the dealing standard is good with the occasional rookie being quite bad but i guess you have to start somewhere right? Now i didnt play any EPT events until the very last few days of the festival when i chose to play the plo8 on monday. So after playing a whole month in the Vic it was a fresh change an wow wow wow i was so impressed by the dealing standards, the dress sense, the ENGLISH being spoken by non british citzens , politeness of them,it was just so profesional an nothing i have ever expierenced before an this was a hard game to deal as well plo8.
We all know that in the uk that dealers dont get the best wage an the companys budget has set rates that they can pay but surely there must be a market for dealers getting trained like Thomas kremser crew as they apparently earn alot more than the standard club dealer in the uk ! Wouldnt the games run smoother , Tips would be higher, The clubs popularity would go up, wouldnt hear moaning stories about bad dealing an i mean the pros far outway the cons?
Anyone else play during the Ept an enjoyed the expierence ? Poker is massive in the UK at the moment producing so much talent on the playing side ! Isnt it time we start producing talent on the other side of the felt ?

Pete what you need to do is address this to every manager of every cardroom you walk into.

It would seem that Poker Dealer's wages in the UK are at an all-time low at the moment. The difference you notice between the standard of Dealers out of Austria as compared to the standard of Dealers in London or Nottingham or Birmingham or elsewhere is of course directly related to the amount of money they can expect to earn. In Vegas, Dealers keep their own tips, they generally get tipped well, and being a poker dealer is a career. In Austria and some other European countries, dealers are well-tipped and well renumerated, so unsurprisingly there is a large number of people who want to be poker dealers.

I have spoke to poker dealers in London who have seen the hourly rate driven down from £20+ per hour to £7 per hour. Plus tips. The tip point you will receive will vary massively from gig to gig and cardroom to cardroom.

In the UK the convention is that tips are split between a pool of dealers and staff within a cardroom or casino, rather than the dealer keeping the tips he or she earns individually. This might be one reason why a lot of poker dealers do not strive to be excellent.

If the wages are low, who wants to be a poker dealer? The hours are unsociable and the job can be draining. At the rates paid by some UK cardrooms, many applicants would be better advised to seek work as a night-cleaner or a shop assistant.

The reduced wages paid to dealers, and the lack of tips they can expect to earn, means that being a poker dealer in the UK is not viewed as a career. It is more seen as a stopgap job, or a student job, or viewed upon by some, unfortunately, as a piss-about job.

If wages were increased, standards would increase. You would see many more people applying to the cardrooms. The cardrooms could be more selective about who they train. Players would be happier...

AND WE WOULD ALL GET TO SEE MORE HANDS

1. The Supervisor's decision is final.

Mmmm point taken but players like that are rare at this level...

This time he had KQ and was presumably trap checking.

Full Tilt Poker $0.25/$0.50 No Limit Hold'em - 5 players
The Official DeucesCracked.com Hand History Converter

BTN: $63.10
SB: $255.60
Hero (BB): $63.00
UTG: $54.50
CO: $50.00

Pre Flop: ($0.75) Hero is BB with
2 folds, BTN calls $0.50, SB calls $0.25, Hero checks

Flop: ($1.50) (3 players)
SB bets $1, Hero raises to $3.75, BTN folds, SB raises to $12.50, Hero calls $8.75

Turn: ($26.50) (2 players)
SB bets $22.50, Hero requests TIME, Hero...

Well what made this hand unusual as far as I was concerned is that I just felt his range is heavily weighted towards QK. That coupled with the fact that there are few hands that can check call us that we beat made me lean towards the check.

However, perhaps a superior line would be to bet-fold really small, getting calls from the weaker one pair hands?

Full Tilt Poker $0.25/$0.50 No Limit Hold'em $0.10 Ante - 6 players

MP: $125.80
CO: $89.15
BTN: $67.30
SB: $139.15
Hero (BB): $73.45
UTG: $52.70

Pre Flop: ($1.35) Hero is BB with
3 folds, BTN raises to $1.75, SB calls $1.50, Hero raises to $6.50, 1 fold, SB calls $4.75

Flop: ($15.35) (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $9, SB calls $9

Turn: ($33.35) (2 players)
SB checks, Hero requests TIME, Hero bets $17.50, SB calls $17.50

River: ($68.35) (2 players)
SB checks, Hero requests TIME....

fk it get it in you are beating so much that these donkeys will get it in with. Sometimes you will have four outs gg.

I suppose this is why yr supposed to check-call the flop