Thomas kremser EPT London dealing staff

[GreekStein]

What do people think is a fair hourly for dealers in this country?

That's going to be hard for poker players to answer Cos because most of them are tight arses and they know that a pay rise means a bigger rake.


Maybe there should be a shift allowance for when they work until the wee hours. Tipping is the way forward once the English get used to it, but I don't agree with pooling the tips. Let them keep their own tips but have the amounts declared on a leader board in their backroom workplace (locker romm or similar). Reward the best and the less enthusiastic will either get better, earn less or find another career. Obv the management have to rotate them so they all get a fair share of the best tipping situations.

Hi Kev,

It was a question to players and dealers alike really.

I've been thinking about it since going to Vegas. It was my first time out there and I was shocked that the rake was so small.

I might not be very popular for saying it but I don't think dealers deserve £20 an hour.

In England, a lot of the cash games rake so hard that if you give tips too, it can be losing you a lot of money. There has to be some kind of balance. I always tip but would definitely tip more if rake wasn't so high.

[Claw75]

What do people think is a fair hourly for dealers in this country?

That's going to be hard for poker players to answer Cos because most of them are tight arses and they know that a pay rise means a bigger rake.


Maybe there should be a shift allowance for when they work until the wee hours. Tipping is the way forward once the English get used to it, but I don't agree with pooling the tips. Let them keep their own tips but have the amounts declared on a leader board in their backroom workplace (locker romm or similar). Reward the best and the less enthusiastic will either get better, earn less or find another career. Obv the management have to rotate them so they all get a fair share of the best tipping situations.

Hi Kev,

It was a question to players and dealers alike really.

I've been thinking about it since going to Vegas. It was my first time out there and I was shocked that the rake was so small.

I might not be very popular for saying it but I don't think dealers deserve £20 an hour.

In England, a lot of the cash games rake so hard that if you give tips too, it can be losing you a lot of money. There has to be some kind of balance. I always tip but would definitely tip more if rake wasn't so high.

£20 an hour does seem excessive if it's an employed position, with regular shifts and guaranteed hours.  I think it's fair to say dealers employed by casinos are paid considerably less than that.  Different kettle of fish for freelancers who are working on a self-employed 'as and when' basis though - seems a reasonable charge in those circumstances.

[kinboshi]

A lot of dealers are on a 'zero hours' contract aren't they?  So although one month they can get plenty of work, it's possible that the following month they might not get the hours they want.  Also, if someone's ill or takes holiday when on a zero hours contract, I'm guessing they don't receive any remuneration during that period?

As for the question of whether tips should be pooled or not, that's a difficult one.  In an ideal world, the dealers who deal the best, and make the game as enjoyable as possible for the players deserve to be rewarded.  At DTD the tips are pooled and shared out, and there must be a reasoning behind it.  I know that dealers are rotated between tournaments and cash games, and that's part of the reason.  Any tips the tournament winners leave are then shared amongst all the dealers, and the same with any cash tips.  I think the front-of-house staff also get a share too (might be wrong)?  I know the valets keep the tips they're given individually.

How do other places in the UK deal with the dealers' tips?  Also, please correct me if I've got it wrong about how the tips are distributed at DTD as well.

[gatso]

How do other places in the UK deal with the dealers' tips?  Also, please correct me if I've got it wrong about how the tips are distributed at DTD as well.

most cardrooms (as opposed to casinos), at least in london, now use the american bonus chip system for tournaments. not sure if it`s pooled with cash tips or not though

[dik9]

The law in cardrooms that hold a casino license in the uk, is that all tips must be pooled and distributed equally. Preferably using a Tronc system.

However I have just searched the gambling commissions website for the actual wording and cannot get a reference to anything that relates to it now?

[Cf]

I can see pros and cons to both methods. For tournaments I think it makes sense to pool them.

For cash I'd like to think i'm tipping a specific dealer who I think is good. I guess the problem here is some dealers on a certain shift might get to spend more time on a better table tipping wise which isn't neccesarily fair.

[Skgv]

Other than the EPT, there aren't really many other avenues for poker dealers. It's notoriously hard to get on the team -- for my own part, I've tried to no avail.

Respect

[mondatoo]

Would £8ph be a shit wage ? I think that would be reasonable for sitting dealing a deck of cards.

[Skgv]

A lot of dealers are on a 'zero hours' contract aren't they?  So although one month they can get plenty of work, it's possible that the following month they might not get the hours they want.  Also, if someone's ill or takes holiday when on a zero hours contract, I'm guessing they don't receive any remuneration during that period?

As for the question of whether tips should be pooled or not, that's a difficult one.  In an ideal world, the dealers who deal the best, and make the game as enjoyable as possible for the players deserve to be rewarded.  At DTD the tips are pooled and shared out, and there must be a reasoning behind it.  I know that dealers are rotated between tournaments and cash games, and that's part of the reason.  Any tips the tournament winners leave are then shared amongst all the dealers, and the same with any cash tips.  I think the front-of-house staff also get a share too (might be wrong)?  I know the valets keep the tips they're given individually.

How do other places in the UK deal with the dealers' tips?  Also, please correct me if I've got it wrong about how the tips are distributed at DTD as well.

Some good points an im very against pooling tips personally as im sure if people worked individually they would try harder to do their job better to earn the maximum rather than going through the motions as i used to wait tables an i would get to earn my own tips an im sure if i would have to share them it would of given me less drive !

But the point here is not so much the tipping aspect its surely the wage structure they get as working in tescos an dealing cards there is apparently more intelligence needed an understanding in maths needed to do one job but not the other so why is dealing a min wage job ?

In the US obvioulsy the culture is more tip oriented an they keep there own tips but here in the UK we treat tipping dealers as a bonus as cost of living is higher an the rake is alot higher which makes it harder for the pro players to make it profitable. But most of this subject on tipping on profibilty would apply to cash game players as if you win a tournament you dont mind giving 1% to 2% of your profit as the chunk of £ is so high.

So may be the answer is rather having a quantity of £6 an hour wage dealers but having a quality of £10 an hour dealers would be better ? Dony know why everywhere has to have dealers for min buy in toruneys or cash games as back in the day all small buy ins were self dealt with the juice been minimal compared to todays juice ! I know a splayers we like dealers but if you can pay half the rake or half the reg fee surely long term its +ev ?

[jackinbeat]

Would £8ph be a shit wage ? I think that would be reasonable for sitting dealing a deck of cards.

Night shifts stacking shelves probably pay more, dealing properly and accurately at speed is a skilled job, doing that whilst keeping up to 9 players in order is more than just a skilled job.

[mondatoo]

Would £8ph be a shit wage ? I think that would be reasonable for sitting dealing a deck of cards.

Night shifts stacking shelves probably pay more, dealing properly and accurately at speed is a skilled job, doing that whilst keeping up to 9 players in order is more than just a skilled job.

Being a cleaner,cleaning rooms quick enough to a high standard is a skilled job,and a tough one to.When I was a kitchen porter earning £5ph I was happy to be working and earning money.I've only ever had a problem with dealers who are rude never on how good they're at dealing as most places I've played they've been decent enough.If they feel underpaid they have an option,do something else.BTW £8ph in the north east is probably seen very differnetly to £8ph down south.

[Skgv]

Would £8ph be a shit wage ? I think that would be reasonable for sitting dealing a deck of cards.

Night shifts stacking shelves probably pay more, dealing properly and accurately at speed is a skilled job, doing that whilst keeping up to 9 players in order is more than just a skilled job.

agreed

[Jon MW]

Would £8ph be a shit wage ? I think that would be reasonable for sitting dealing a deck of cards.

Night shifts stacking shelves probably pay more, dealing properly and accurately at speed is a skilled job, doing that whilst keeping up to 9 players in order is more than just a skilled job.

lol, that's a generous super market you've got there - I think minimum wage is more common.

I don't think dealing count as a skilled job, semi-skilled would be more appropriate (to put that into context, every job requires some skill or another - that's not what qualifies as skilled).

I'd say dealing is equivalent to a bank clerk. Obviously the longer you work somewhere, the better performance reviews you get and the more senior you get all puts your pay up - but a quick look over recruitment websites suggests that £6 - £8 p/h is what they get.

That's outside of London - obviously a weighting for that should always be applicable.

[Skgv]

Would £8ph be a shit wage ? I think that would be reasonable for sitting dealing a deck of cards.

Night shifts stacking shelves probably pay more, dealing properly and accurately at speed is a skilled job, doing that whilst keeping up to 9 players in order is more than just a skilled job.

Being a cleaner,cleaning rooms quick enough to a high standard is a skilled job,and a tough one to.When I was a kitchen porter earning £5ph I was happy to be working and earning money.I've only ever had a problem with dealers who are rude never on how good they're at dealing as most places I've played they've been decent enough.If they feel underpaid they have an option,do something else.BTW £8ph in the north east is probably seen very differnetly to £8ph down south.

Also vey true about the north an south divide! An the point about rudeness from dealers is very common on where they should draw the line in terms of repsecting the players! i know it goes both ways has as players we are gultiy too, but it happens that maybe we get to friendly with dealers which can lead to the respect loss during the game an the proffesionlism suffers.........

[mondatoo]

I'd expect no dealer could say I'd been rude but agreed some people are way out of line.But then that is also the case in most jobs.